Swiss Traffic Fines

I was also really looking forward to Switzerland. The strictness of the traffic laws have left a bitter taste in my mouth

http://www.swissvistas.com/driving-in-switzerland.html

https://www.ch.ch/en/how-behave-road-traffic/

Just drive safely, everywhere.

What's your point? Doesn't sound like you have gotten any tickets yet. Maybe you won't.

The "Swiss Vistas" website in the link in a previous repaly may not be completely accurate on all points. The website made reference to an "International Driver's License", which is a lot of rubbish.

alex,

I have the same question as Lee. Have you received any tickets yet, or are you just suspecting that you may receive some? Since there's nothing you can do about it now, you'll just have to wait and see what happens over the next month or two.

For future reference, well planned rail trips are usually a better option, especially in Switzerland.

I am just suspected I'll get them and wanted to know what are the chances?

I'll be driving through Switzerland next week, will probably go 110 km/h the whole way

Alex, I wouldn't do 110Km/Hr all the way if I were you. Assuming you are talking about Autobahns (other roads have much lower limits), there are some sections which have 80 Km/Hr limits, including the section through Basel. It is all well signposted, and well covered with cameras!

and every tunnel has reduced speeds around the country. Read the signs. Follow what it says on the signs. The tunnels are patrolled by cameras.

You don't need to see a flash at many modern cameras. The flash is infrared.

Don't "try to follow the rules". Obey the law or expect consequences.

Switzerland has one of the best public transportation systems in the world. Clean, efficient, modern, punctual and guaranteed to NEVER give you a traffic citation :-)

Cars sold in Europe have speedometers that are deliberately calibrated as to give you some buffer. They are usually 5-6% off. Then depending on the Canton, they give you between 3 and 5 km/h of slack.
Therefore if your speedometer was indicating 130 km/h you are still safe in a 120 km/h zone.
For example, Vaud is very strict. Between Lausanne and Geneva, there is a speed trap every 3 miles! Valais/Wallis next door does not have a single fixed speed camera.

In regards to traffic light cameras, it is pretty fair:
No fines are given during the first 0.5 seconds of the red phase.

There is also a law for the duration of the yellow phase in places with a camera:

3 seconds if the speed limit is up to 50 km/h
4 seconds if the speed limit is 60 km/h
5 seconds if the speed limit is 70 km/h or higher.

Source: Weisungen über polizeiliche Geschwindigkeitskontrollen und Rotlichtüberwachung im Strassenverkehr

Tim, you may never get a traffic ticket if you're using mass transit, but if you're using trams as in Bern that work on the honor system, and you either forget to get a ticket or choose not to buy one, your fine could be quite high. I tried to read the warning that was posted on one tram but the language was too powerful for me. So you need to watch out for that.

I suppose in theory if you're on a train that offers or requires reserved seating and you don't have one, there's not only an upcharge but possibly a fine as well. Like having to buy your ticket from the conductor on Metro North.

General rule for driving in Europe- PAY ATTENTION TO THE SIGNS AND THE SURROUNDINGS, NOT THE GPS! Your GPS can err quite frequently, the signs will never tell you the wrong information.

And unlike in North America, where drivers seem to treat traffic laws and speed limits as general recommendations, you are expected not to excede the speed limit in Europe.

Phred, most inter city transport systems (trams, buses, metros) are on the honor system. How could anyone ever just "assume" a form of transport is free. If you don't understand how to use it...well that's another whole story. There are plenty of English speakers (and googled websites) that can explain most anything quite adequately.

So many tourists talk about the "ease" and "freedom" of having a rental car. Been there and done that. "ease" and "freedom" is not all it's cracked up to be.

Tim, just to be clear, I'm not saying that people should abuse the honor system on public transit. Just that it's human nature that some people will try, or they're tired and forget, or they don't have enough euros, whatever. Just pointing out that there can be consequences. I doubt if there are many (if any) honor systems left in the US so people may be confused.

I was on a trolley in LA back when it ran on the honor system and at one stop in the middle of nowhere 2 big burly sheriffs deputies got on board and checked everyone for tickets. The numbskull in front of me not only didn't have a ticket, he had outstanding warrants! Talk about money not well spent.

... abuse the honor system on public transit.

We were on an Oslo trolley when the transit police made a surprise check. One guarded the back door to stop anyone attempting to flee and two officers went from front to back inspecting tickets/passes. They caught one offender and wrote out a citation after checking her identification card.

I guess someone penciled out that it's cheaper to not have turnstiles, conductors, etc. and to just have the local policia hit up the trains once in a while, but I don't see how that works out. As noted, in LA they launched on the honor system but now it's gone over to no-honor.

First experienced that in Amsterdam, after years of riding the T in Boston and being trained to always pay.

It is a matter of the size of the fine times the frequency of inspections exceeding the cost of buying tickets.
Where I live, the fine for being caught on public transport without a ticket is 100 Franks payable on the spot, more for repeated offences (they record your name, Swiss law says you have to carry ID). The cost of a monthly season ticket is 76 Franks.
So, as long as they inspect you at least once or twice a month, it is cheaper to buy a ticket and stay legal.
The ticket inspectors are not police, they are employees of the transport company. They are not in uniform. Two or more get on at opposite ends of the bus or tram, wait until the doors close and then hold up there badges and say "all tickets and passes please". They then work towards the middle.

I don't know why you call it the "honour system", In Britain it is usually referred to as penalty fares.

It's known as the honor system (watch your spelling pls) because they're counting on you to "do the right thing" and buy a ticket each time even though it's unlikely you will get asked for it each time. Penalty system is just a different way of saying the same thing.

Phred, it is spelled "honour" in English, same as colour, favour, behaviour etc.
And, BTW, Driving Licence. Even the Swiss know the correct spelling (mine looks like this, apart from the photo).
It is well known that people brought up on the wrong side of the Atlantic cannot spell :-) !

To quote the old dumb-blonde joke, "You are on the other side." :-)

Chris F:
I take exception to your comment on the spelling abilities of those of us on this side of the Atlantic. Our good neighbours to the south may be u-challenged, but in Canada, we still honour the "u" in our spelling. We even include it in our cheques! And by the way, your side of the Atlantic may be the right side, but that makes ours the left, not wrong, side ;-)

Dear ottawanderer, apologies to all Canadians and other correct spellers. :-)
I learned to drive on the correct (left) hand side of the road, and my first Driving Licence said "Hertfordshire County Council" on it. I still have it, even though my present one was issued by Kanton Baselstadt.
There are many words and phrases on this site I am not familiar with, and I have had to learn to write "ATM (cash machine)" and other such phrases. I get my money from a cash machine, not an ATM.
I am still confused by "kiosk", which is a small manned shop where the customers stand outside and are served through a window. An automatic ticket machine is not a kiosk.
I am still confused about what the residents of the left side of the Atlantic mean by "Highway" or "Freeway". I know Motorway = Autoroute = Autobahn etc. It is a legally defined term that has virtually identical meaning in all European countries. A highway is any road that is open to the public (including a muddy lane), but what is a Freeway?

"Freeway" is a west coast U.S. term for motorway. For example we would say, "Take the 405 freeway south to Long Beach". There you go. A very L.A. way of saying it. In northern California they would say, "Take highway 101 to San Francisco", even though it means the freeway.

You can drive on freeways or expressways farther east than the left coast of the USA. Key characteristics are that they are fast (or used to be) multi-lane highways and have no tolls, hence free. Typically the posted speed limits aren't much, if any, slower than outside the city or town, but in reality the heavy traffic at some times in some locations prevents driving that fast. At other times it may be going much faster than the posted limit. This may be relevant to some folks getting tickets for "keeping up with the traffic" in Europe.

Although the dictionary definitions don't mention it, they also may be the main routes through city centers. A prime left coast example is I(nterstate) 5 which goes from the Canadian border to the Mexican one and is the major north-south route through downtown Seattle.

Growing up in Texas, freeway or expressway is the term we used for the part that went through cities. Highway or interstate was used for the part outside cities. Something many people don't realize and may not be 100% accurate all over the USA is that south-north roads, highways and all the other applicable synonyms have odd numbers and west-east have even numbers. The numbering starts with the low numbers on the Pacific and they get higher as they go to the Atlantic. Similarly, the low numbers start in the south close to the Mexican border and the Gulf of Mexico and get higher as they approach the Canadian border.

I don't think US roads are any easier to figure out or drive on than European ones. As the navigator on our trips, I do think the sometimes multiple numbers for the same European road is a bit of a challenge.

Alex,

I suspect you are already in or have already left Switzerland but thought I'd throw in my two cents. Your worry about getting thousands of Euros in fines once you get home sounds exactly like my husband. The best advice I can give you is follow the Swiss rules of the road exactly. Do not drive as you would in the US because you are not in the US. Drive as you should in Switzerland! If you do that, there is no point in worrying about what fines you MIGHT get once you get home. If you do that, you won't enjoy your trip.

My husband is a very careful driver but saw a flash when we were driving out of Bern. He spent most of the rest of our trip worrying about the flash and the potential fines. He really let it ruin the enjoyment of the driving (usually one of his favourite parts of traveling in Europe) part of the remaining two weeks of our trip for him. True, we did get a fine in the mail a few weeks after we got home - roughly CDN $40 for driving 52 in a 50 zone. In the end it wasn't such big deal and it makes me sad that he let it take away so much from the rest of the trip for him.

What I'm trying to say is ... yes, it is possible that you slipped up and got a fine or two that will show up in the mail in a few weeks. But if you were following the rules, chances are it will be less than $100 or so, definitely not in the thousands. Don't let the possibility of $100 or so ruin what is likely a many thousand dollar trip for you.

Hi Alex,
We were in Switzerland in May, and had no "suspicion" that we had gone over the speed limit or had any infractions. In July, we got a notification from the car rental company saying we had received a ticket of some sort (two, in fact) and that they charge us 50CHF per infraction for giving our info to the police to contact us. So then we pay that and receive a notification that in the last two hours of our 2 week stay, we had run a red light, and also gone 12km over the speed limit as we headed into Zurich. The first fine for the red light was 250CHF, which we paid. Then a whole month goes by and two days ago we get a notification written completely in German that indicates the new fine is 647CHF. That's about $725.00. We have tried to decipher the letter which contains no address to pay, or appeal, but we really have a bitter taste in our mouth and are not sure how to proceed. We are contacting a lawyer today. Word to the wise: ride the train.

Type the German into Google Translate to get the gist of what's going on. There should be a bank account number listed somewhere for you to wire the fine money to.

We were lucky. Our fine was so low that the wiring fee from our credit union to that account cost more than the fine itself. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that will be the case for you.

You did have a vignette on your car, right? The fines are very high for that if you didn't, possibly 200+CHF.

Chris F.,

"I am still confused by "kiosk", which is a small manned shop where the customers stand outside and are served through a window. An automatic ticket machine is not a kiosk."

According to Dictionary.com.....

Kiosk - "an interactive computer terminal available for public use, as one with Internet access or site-specific information"

That would seem to fit the ticket machines which are designed for a specific (but limited) purpose.

Kiosk. BC (before computers):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiosk

A kiosk (from Turkish: köşk, which in turn comes from Persian: kūshk‎)
is a small, separated garden pavilion open on some or all sides.
Kiosks were common in Persia, the Indian subcontinent, and in the
Ottoman Empire from the 13th century onward. Today, there are many
kiosks in and around the Topkapı Palace in Istanbul, and they are
still a relatively common sight in Balkan states.

The word is now applied to small booths offering goods and services
and to freestanding computer terminals.

We are contacting a lawyer today.

I am really not sure it is worth it. It will just cost you more and you will still have to pay the fine because there will be pictures showing what you did or did not do.
If you decide to go to court and (most likely) fail to make your case, the court will quietly charge you for wasting their time (not cheap).

There is a big difference between common law (as practiced in the USA and Canada) where you can challenge on various grounds and civil law (as practiced in most of Europe, including Switzerland) which is inflexible and by the book.

A CHF 647 fine is in the "denunciation" category and is canton specific (66 km/h+ in a 50 km/h zone for example).

So Laurie, your visit to the lawyer was 4 days ago. How did it go? How was their knowledge of Swiss law?

Further to Nigel's questions in the post above, what was the lawyer's fee?

laurie,

"We are contacting a lawyer today."

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll have much success with that. They likely have your smiling countenances on camera for each traffic violation, so that makes it very hard to dispute. The only thing contacting a Lawyer will do, is cost you more money. I do agree with your suggestion to use trains though. That's the method I use most of the time.

Brad writes:
"With what Switzerland cost us, 700 in fines was less than 1% of what we spent on a trip there 8 years ago."
You must be a very successful lawyer. If I could afford $70000 plus for a trip to Switzerland, I wouldn't worry about the traffic fines either!

... or a poor Mathwhiz! ;-)

700? 700 whats?

If CHF, that would have been enough bad driving to get you banned, probably for life in Switzerland had you been a local not a visitor....

Still Nigel, a collection of fines totaling CHF 700 will not do anything to your driver's license. They don't have a point system. Reckless driving or a DUI will.

Yeah Brad, I didn't really think you had spent $70K on your trip. But as a (retired) math teacher, I felt compelled to have you go back and check over your work. Ten percent is correct- well done!