Swiss Language focus

Switzerland is one of the most tourism oriented countries in the world. Almost anywhere you will be on the tourist trail locals will speak fluent english. If you want to learn some phrases of the local languages go for it, but it's completely unnecessary.

Sadly Michael that hasn't been our experience. We were in Basel for several days a few years ago. Attempted to take a day train trip. Bought out tickets ok, had trouble figuring out which platform, once on a board an announcement was made only in German that the train was canceled due to line problems. Got virtually no help from customer service and finally just asked how to get a refund. Very stodgy lady in a different office did make the refund. Turned out if we'd only waited about an hour we could have made our trip. Definite communications breakdown. This is why I'm thinking of at least adding Swiss German to my study plan.

Well, it is a toss up really. The good news is that simple clear English along with a few key words in each language would more than suffice. I suppose it depends how much time you want to devote, becoming conversational in a self learning environment is not easy.

My approach would be to bone up on my basic phrases in each language, (I have traveled in Germany France and Italy several times each, so have some base), then I enjoy reading menus, so I go online and look, much I come up to speed on quickly, other things I look up the meaning and find descriptions of the dish. The problem with menu names is that the literal translation ("Beef in the style of the farmer" might be an example) means little, other than I am getting some beef. Finding a good Menu Translator app can be helpful. I also usually have a short list of dishes I am on the hunt for.
Once "in-country" things start to click after a couple days, I also have Google Translate on my phone for back-up, but really, I have found language to be little of an issue.

Edit to add to responses above: I think spending some time to learn Swiss German is admirable, but getting conversational in it, and even to fully understand something like a train announcement (PA with an echo with a quick announcement in a local accent) is a tall order. Not to discourage you, but it will take effort. Some system where you have the opportunity to speak to a person (as opposed to "repeat the phrase") would be essential.

To clarify a bit, in the past I've used Pimsleur language programs. Right now I have a three month trial with Amazon audible. I can get one free set of lessons per month. Have gotten the French lessons 1-5 for month 1. Am thinking for the next two I'll get French 6-10 then the next month Swiss German 1-5. They'll all be loaded on my phone so when I have spare time I can just listen. Or I could get the second set of French from our public library and get both Swiss German 1-5 and 6-10. Drawback is the library copy I won't own so my access to it will be more limited.

How much time to you expect to be in each area? If predominately in the German zone (as most Americans seem to concentrate) I'd focus on the German. At least, I'd want to know all the polite phrases in all three (four?) languages.

CJ. I just wanted to mention how much I respect you for taking the thought and effort to learn the languages of where you will be visiting.

Tour starts in Lausanne and ends in Lucerne. We'll have time on our on before and after the formal tour starts - more at the end than the beginning. Logically I'd focus more on the German but have a head start on French so it seems an easier solution. Will skip Italian though we'll spend time down south just not much on our own.

If you already have French, I'd focus on German, all other things being equal. Unless you're spending significant time in Ticino, odds are that you are spending more time in French- and German-speaking Switzerland than in Italian-speaking parts of the country.

There is also the separate complication in Switzerland in that it's not all the same "German" (which you may already be aware of):

• Swiss German (Schweizerdeutsch) is the main spoken language among Swiss Germans
• Standard/High German (Hochdeutsch, or Schriftdeutsch 'written German') is the main written language in German-speaking Switzerland, and spoken language used in formal announcements in Switzerland, and is (broadly speaking) the same standard German used in Germany and Austria

The two are quite different and Germans, particularly from the north of Germany, who don't have experience speaking with Swiss speakers often don't really understand spoken Swiss German, which is normally subtitled in German TV.

If this is going to be a one-off trip to Switzerland, and you don't have Swiss family or friends you know personally, I'd actually focus on learning Standard/High German instead of Swiss German -- because I think as a tourist you will find it more helpful. Almost all writing is in Standard/High German (and definitely things like menus, railway announcements, direction signs, etc.) and formal announcements (like railway station/public announcements) are also in Standard German.

Most Swiss German speakers will automatically switch to High German when encountering a non-native speaker (including Swiss French and Italian speakers, who learn High German in school) so it won't come as a surprise. Finally, there are a lot more general "German" resources than there are for specific "Swiss German."

Of course if you were looking to integrate as a Swiss resident, have long-term Swiss friends, or watch Swiss entertainment TV, you should learn Swiss German. But I suspect that none of those are the case.

You Will be met with perfect English by most Swiss! They have an extraordinarily strong language education system and are just phenomenal. Other passengers would probably have been happy to translate the train message for you, and tracks and platforms are clearly outlined for your journey both on the board and on your phone SBB phone app.

I love how you want to hone in on your language skills. So many tourists expect everybody to speak English and won’t even spend any time whatsoever learning some of the language or languages of the areas where they will visit.

You have a good head start with French. I would allot a larger percentage of your time on German. I would also purchase the pocket-sized Langenscheidt German - English : English - German dictionary. Mine is 3” x 4” x 1”. Perfect size small enough for your pocket.

If you have a smartphone you don’t need to carry around books. There’s a translator app around every corner!

To each her own. I have used my little pocket dictionary for years. Which app do you use off-line that you like? I’m curious to try it!

So glad I asked this. I now know I can skip the Swiss German variation and focus on French refresher and German. Learned a little of the later last year prior to a Rhine/Danube cruise. Mostly written vocabulary but no speaking.

A bit skeptical of computer apps after Google translated an appetizer on a Hungarian menu into something like "a selection of kittens". Sure hope that was a mistake.

Have definitely found in France that a little French went a very long way to getting friendly service. Hoping the same for the very reserved swiss. Also I feel I'm honoring my grandpa's heritage by trying.

Thanx for all the help!!

Attempted to take a day train trip. Bought out tickets ok, had trouble figuring out which platform, once on a board an announcement was made only in German that the train was canceled due to line problems. Got virtually no help from customer service and finally just asked how to get a refund. Very stodgy lady in a different office did make the refund. Turned out if we'd only waited about an hour we could have made our trip. Definite communications breakdown.

If I can address this, I can see what was happening.

First, even if most customer-facing personnel speak enough English to answer your questions, that does not mean they will make every announcement in English. Pre-recorded announcements are made in the local language, and for some long distance trains in the other Swiss language and then English. The majority of the passengers will be German, French or Italian speakers, then possibly 5-10 other nationalities. They cannot possibly make ad-hoc announcements in them all, and the on-train staff may not know the English for "line problems".
How many languages are announcements made in at your local airport?

If a train is cancelled, there will be another one in 30 or 60 minutes. That is given in Switzerland. Everybody else would have just caught the next train.
I can fully understand why customer services were dumbfounded by your request for a refund. Your ticket would have been valid on any train. Why did you buy a ticket if you don't want to go there? By the time you found customer services the next train was probably already at the platform, if not already left.
Refund requests are probably very rare.

This is why I'm thinking of at least adding Swiss German to my study plan.

To clarify, Swiss German is just the name given to a collection of Germanic dialects spoken in Switzerland for which there is no written form. This means that everyone learns standard German in school and public announcements are in standard German, so if you are going to put time into it then learn that.

The dialects can be very different, so much so that even the Swiss have difficulty understanding people from another region. I’ve been here 30 years and am OK with the local dialect, can get by in Basel or Zürich, but after that I will struggle to get every word of a conversation.

Chris, the only reason I mentioned the German only announcement was a counter to the earlier post that everything is in English and/ or that it was easy to figure out the info you need so no need to learn some of the local language. When we went on that trip that was what everyone said - and yes the Swiss are light years ahead of most of us in language skills - but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll use it with you.

When we went to customer service and explained what had happened the young man made no attempt to explain what you did which would have solved the problem. He just stared at us like he had no idea what was happening on the train line or how to resolve it. That's when we asked how to get a refund. It wasn't like we went barreling in angrily demanding a refund. We were just noticeably confused Americans hoping to find some help or a solution. Switzerland may have a lot of tourists but that doesn't automatically make them tourist friendly. We learned the hard way that the Swiss can be very reserved (and I'm basing that on more experiences that trip than just this instance).

I've learned much more about what to expect and hoping a bit a language skills will improve our interactions. Also have downloaded the SBB app so I'm hoping this experience will be much better.

cj,

As the others have mentioned, you'll probably be fine with just English as those involved in tourist-related businesses will be able to function in English. However as you already know some French, you may want to brush up on that. You'd be spreading yourself too thin by trying to learn all the languages of Switzerland. With English and some degree of fluency in one of the Swiss languages, you shouldn't have any problems. The Swiss are very clever with languages and many speak people more than one. I shared a train compartment with a Swiss businessman on one of my trips, and he could speak seven languages!

There may be the odd time when you encounter someone that doesn't speak English. I've experienced that a few times in Switzerland. On one occasion, I stopped at restaurant in Chur for dinner but found that the German-speaking staff that was working that night didn't speak any English at all. While I was pondering my options, another group of diners came in and ordered in Italian. I can function to some extent in Italian so that solved the problem. I can also function a bit in French (I suppose growing up in Canada and reading cereal boxes helped with that).

You may enjoy watching this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8GgX_hWyA .

This was also very interesting - https://www.learn-swiss-german.ch/blog/the-brutal-key-difference-between-swiss-german-and-german/ .

If you're going to be travelling with a smartphone, Google Translate may provide some help. It's not perfect on a conversational level but may be good enough to get the meaning of short phrases across. Unless you have data capability on your phone, you'll have to download the offline version of the language. If you don't have a smartphone, a good Phrasebook should suffice.

Thanx Ken.

In general I've found that throughout Europe when staying at hotels (we travel with Tauck where they're generally all four star or above) the staff is always well versed in English and the same at major attractions. Where problems arise is usually at restaurants or small businesses.

Transportation can be confusing not just because of language but also just knowledge of simple things like how to read a timetable, what info is on the ticket, etc. If you are used to a particular transport system then it all seems easy. I spent years using the DC metro feeling it was pretty simple but plenty of tourists there would stand around with the same glazed expression I'm sure I've had on my face in europe.

Yes we'll have our smartphones. Just as long as Tmobile does in fact have service there.

If you want to learn some German, learn STANDARD German. Swiss German might as well be a separate language. The Swiss understand standard German

I agree that if learning German, stick with standard High German. I spoke German confidently and well after living in Austria and Germany (full immersion). The numerous variations of Schwyzertüütsch were basically impenetrable to both me and my German friends (to them it sounded like baby talk lol), even after friendly Swiss people tried to explain how to, for example, conjugate some basic verbs. The Swiss call High German "Schriftdeutsch" (written German) b/c Swiss German is a spoken language. As noted above, everything written (except in some ads) will be in High German. I lived in Switzerland (French-speaking part) for 7 years and never got a handle on Swiss German; I'm sure if I'd lived on the German side of the Röstigraben I would have made some headway. I do have a great fondness for Swiss German ... the little I learned was quite fun to say. For example, Swiss-German-speaking friends called our son Nicolas "Chläusl" (pronounced khloy-zl – you have to clear your throat loudly when you say it lol) instead of standard-German "Klaus." I still call him Chläusl : )

Anyway, best wishes for learning more of the local languages!

Ahh, Swiss-German! During World War II, the story goes, a particularly mouth-twisty word was used as a sort of passcode to separate the real Swiss from any suspected German infiltrator. Hochdeutsch couldn't hack it, in any sense.

For your real question, I'd stick to French and English (use the English in all the non-French cantons), with the usual please&thankyou bits of German & Italian. Have a great trip!

Not matter what happens wrt my language skills, I've found this thread interesting and educational. Thanx all.

It is always worth learning greetings, plus "please" and "thank you".

In Swiss German, the greeting is Grüezi for one person, or Grüezt mitenand ( greetings among us) for more than one. Please is "bitte" as in standard German, but Thank You is "merci vilmal". Of course they will understand Danke but it is fun to use the local expression.

Grüezi mitenand, Ich habe Ihre E-mail bekommen, . . .

That's how you often start an e-mail in Switzerland. It is a standing joke in our office, we receive e-mails from customers, trying to write in English, starting as follows:

Hello together, I have become your e-mail. . . .

They have looked up "mitenend" and "bekommen" in a dictionary and used the first translation listed. It should of course be:

Hello everybody, I have received your e-mail. . . .