Section of fall itinerary needs help

Hi!
It is indeed quite tricky to fill 10 days on either end of the "whirlwind" RS tour without "duplicate stays".

In your case, staying in Pontresina, you might as well catch the Glacier Express in Samedan rather than St. Moritz. Look at both options and see what is the best connection.

Instead of Interlaken, once done with the Glacier Express I would keep exploring the Valais region (besides Zermatt, where the tour goes). For example, you could stay for 2 nights in Chandolin, a remote village in the Val d'Anniviers, or neighboring St Luc. There are great hikes and stunning views in that area, and it is definitely off the beaten path.

After that, I would aim towards Gruyères for maybe 2 nights, then on to Zürich (stopping at Bern en route), then a shorter stay in Luzern (since the tour already spends time there).

After the tour, I would definitely it split my stays in the Berner Oberland: just pick one base. I would ditch the night in Bern, too.

Otherwise, regarding passes, given that you have to cover 2x10 days, it looks like a Half Fare Card is best since it's valid for a month. But I haven't done the calculations!

regional train from Tirano to Pontresina. I've read that one sees the same scenery as on the Bernina Express by doing so.

yup. Same tracks, same views.

I don't see any advantage unless you want 2 days on lake boats to going 'specially to Interlaken when you will be going through again a couple of weeks later.

I also don't see any advantage to two x two night stays in the Lauterbrunnen area. Maybe that's so you can concentrate one side of the valley then up sticks and concentrate on the other. I don't think it is worth it. Transportation is easy and fun. A whole lot of time spent checking out in Lauterbrunnen then up the hill to spend time checking in again in Mürren when you could be off doing something seems wasteful. What if that day is the day with the best weather so you can ascend to the top of either of the two mountains, but you have to move rooms instead? Pick one or the other and stay there. Some say Lauterbrunnen, others Wengen, still others Mürren. I personally would pick Mürren for the sunset views and glow.

Others can debate the best train and lift combo for you. I'll just say you have to do the math and balance that against your comfort level, and especially remember to factor in the differences when you get above Wengen and Mürren .

we have to go from Pontresina to St. Moritz to catch this train. I'm looking to catch the 8:51 train that gets into Brig by 3:40

I don't get that. It doesn't take 6 hours to go the short distance from Pontresina to St Moritz. Could you clarify? Are you doing back to back Bernina Express and Glacier Express in one day? If so, that's brave.

But in your main itinerary it looks like you'll be in Pontresina for 4 days. I'm confused.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will look at staying in the Valais region instead of going on to Interlaken for 2 days. As for Bern, that is where RS tour ends, so I am adding a day there to visit a couple of places that aren't on the tour.

Instead of St. Moritz, I will go to Samedan from Pontresina on Sept. 4 to catch the Glacier Express. I wasn't sure the train stopped there. I hope I cleared up any confusion, Nigel, with how I wrote up the itinerary at that point.

The 2x2 stay in BO isn't ideal. RS tour stops in Murren, but I don't think it allows a lot of time to explore the region. Should we skip Murren the second time around? Wouldn't we be doing a lot of extra riding of lifts, etc., if we stayed in Lauterbrunnen vs staying further up the mountains?

Again, thank you for taking the time to help.

Perhaps you'd prefer a different view if you will have already been in Mürren - it is just my favourite place which is why I encourage others to too. Maybe Wengen? Lots of people like it, I've never stayed there but I'm used to looking over and down from the Mürren area and have never wanted to look up across the valley... and I love the sunsets and glow from Mürren.

In terms of riding up and down.... it is, as we say here, horses for courses. If you are on the Mürren side you have to go down to Lauterbrunnen and back up the Wengen side if you want to do things on the Wengen side, and of course the same would apply if you were in Wengen and wanted to do stuff on the Mürren side. In Lauterbrunnen you have to go up regardless.

Lay out what you want to accomplish and see how it balances out. I enjoy riding the rides so being in Mürren and going over to the Wengen or higher side never bothers me. You do have to think about the money though....

That's not much help is it?

Nigel,
You always offer good advice. I am reconsidering by extra 4 days in the BO. I've had hotel reservations for some time, and at this point in time, prices are higher or rooms not available.

What kind of pass do you have when you visit the BO? Do you buy the BO pass?

Thanks for your thinking around my sketchy plans.

For your two nights in the Valais after the Glacier Express, I highly recommend the little car-free village of Bettmeralp. Fantastic hiking in view of the huge Aletschgletscher.

https://www.aletscharena.ch/en/aletsch-arena/places/bettmeralp

The cable car up to the village departs from Betten, which is just 10-12 minutes from Brig. You will actually pass through there on the Glacier Express, but it does not stop in Betten. So just take the regional train (which runs frequently) back 2 stops to board the cablecar.

We like Hotel Panorama there, but there are lots of other options.

Another suggestion would be Kandersteg, which is about 45 minutes from Brig on the northbound line to Spiez. You could stay in the lovely mountain inn up at Oeschinensee, a gondola ride above the town.

https://www.oeschinensee.ch/en/

This is in the Berner Oberland, not the Valais, however.

We generally include both these places in our .Switzerland hiking trip itinerary.

What kind of pass do you have when you visit the BO? Do you buy the BO pass?

I'm afraid that I'm not much help with those questions. When I was working, one of my benefits of working on the British railways was free travel on Swiss and other European trains, including steep discounts on the non-train travel like in the Berner Oberland. So I've never actually bought a pass for European trains (other than a whole summer Eurail Youth Pass back in the early '70's before I started work).

Now when we visit we usually drive our car from home in the UK and buy whatever we need as we need it, full price.

We have our favourite things to do and friends to visit. Sorry that's not much help...

Thank you, Lola for your suggestions. You are the second person to recommend the Valais region, so I took your advice and booked the Panorama Hotel in Bettmeralp. Can you recommend any restaurants or hikes there? We are in our 70s, so easier hikes are more sensible for us.

What pass(es) did you get for Switzerland? Do you get the Half Price card, or does it depend on how long you are visiting?

A couple of Luzern questions: We are planning to stay there 3 days prior to RS tour. I am planning to go to Mount Rigi and Mount Pilatus - all weather dependent of course. Dare we add Fortress Furigen?

Thanks again.

When we visit Bettmeralp we either book an apartment and cook, or stay at Hotel Panorama and take Half-Pension, which includes breakfast and dinner. So I am not familiar with restaurants in the village, although I know one night the kids all went out for pizza after they were left hungry by the fondue meal we were served!

For hikes, your goal will be to get to the top of the ridge behind the village for a view of the Aletschgletscher. Here is a website I found with a hiking map and several photos, including near the bottom a photo of the glacier view. You may be able to follow my hiking thoughts on the map if you can enlarge it a bit.

https://alpshiking.swisshikingvacations.com/aletsch-arena-commanding-views-and-panoramic-hikes/

The easiest place to hike up to the ridge is to go to Birg, and traverse along the glacier of the ridge for as far as you like, then return the way you came.

If you want to take a lift up to the viewpoint instead of hiking, or combine a lift ride with a downhill hike, there are several possibilities. The highest viewpoint argot at Bettmeralp is the top of the Bettmerhorn, which is served by a gondola and offers a restaurant at the top. But I would not try to hike down from there unless you are very sure-footed, as it is very steep and rocky.

For a ride and hike combo, take the pleasant paved path eastward to the neighboring village of Riederalp, about 20 minutes away. Walk through town, maybe stopping at the little alpine museum, to the Hohfluh lift—-i think it is still a chairlift. Ride that up to the ridge top, then follow the trail along the top back toward the Bettmerhorn, but go only as far as the Moosfluh lift (this one a gondola). You can ride all the way down to Riederalp, or get off the lift at the Blausee mid station and walk back to Bettmeralp from there, passing the pretty Bettmersee (lake). My husband likes to swim there but I don’t know how it will be in September.

Riederalp also offers a Nature Center and alpine garden, and trails through the beautiful Aletschwald (forest), but unfortunately the glacier has receded so far from this area I don’t think it is a good viewpoint any more. Worth a visit for the alpine garden, nature trails, and little tearoom if you have the time (but I am not sure how the garden will look in September).

https://www.aletscharena.ch/aletsch-arena/poi/alpine-garden-pro-natura-centre

Thanks for the additional information, Lola. I will check it out.

Catherine

Echoing a previous comment Lauterbrunnen and Murren aren't separate stops; they're basically different accommodation area choices on the same stop. No reason to split your time between the two.

Lauterbrunnen has its charms, but generally speaking it is simply better to be up in one of the sunnier traffic free villages than down in the shady valley automotive choke point.

Rick Steves fans seem to strongly prefer Murren, but I will post in my standard plug for Wengen:

Murren is lovely, but I am team Wengen. It's much more central in the area's Alpine transit network (one could argue it is the most central point, more so that even Lauterbrunnen). People who dismiss Wengen as being more touristed than Murren don't know what they're talking about. In truth they are both terrorist towns. Murren is more of a ski resort village proper; Wengen sits on a significantly larger flatter spot with more working family agriculture surrounding the town.
As such it's better for local walks that roll but don't force you up long steep hills or into a narrow corridor of flatter walks. Murren has the best views no question, likely some of the best views on the planet, but Wengen's views are very good. Murren has some ridiculously nice larger hotels, and probably better restaurant choices, although we cooked in Switzerland and Wengen has a good supermarket. Neither is a bad choice at all, but Wengen is my family's top choice.

I'll also say that Zurich has never really hit me as an essential visit on the days that I have visited. I personally would not plan on spending time in Zurich. Basel is kind of a interesting city. Generally speaking I don't choose to visit Switzerland's larger cities any more, but will take Basel over Zurich.

If it was me I'd reallocate all the Zurich nights and one of the Basel nights to Colmar or Strasbourg, but of course just a personal preference.

Hank,
Thanks for your insights. I will check out Wengen. We are visiting Murren for 2 nights during the RS tour, so maybe we should try something else for our return trip. It looks as though there are good, easy hikes out of Wengen, too.

I will rethink Zurich. It wasn't high on my list anyway. We've been to Strasbourg and Colmar on an earlier trip. If we skip Zurich, any other suggestions of where to go? We already have 3 days in Luzern prior to joining RS, so I don't want to add any days there. I'm already wondering if 3 days is too much in Luzern except that most of that time we will be traipsing to the mountains.

Really appreciate all these great ideas!

So already two days in Murren, and then you return to Lauterbrunnen Valley on your own for 4 more days. Got it.

That plan sounds fantastic 👍. It will feel great on your short time on the tour in Murren knowing that you will return for a longer visit forthwith. And when you return you'll be oriented and feel like you have command of the place.

The other advantage is that you will be able to concentrate on Murren when you are down at that end of the cul de sac, not feel like you'll need to commute out to do things. Nice planning!

I wonder 🤔 about your two nights in Interlaken before Zurich .... The couple of times that I have been through that area Interlaken served as a jumping off point for the Lauterbrunnen Valley etc in the higher mountains. It is a nice town, but I don't think anything particularly recommends it over combining those two nights with your two Zurich nights and spending four nights somewhere different. You are going to be getting a lot of Switzerland after all, a lot of time spent next to probably more beautiful lakes, a lot of time spent in better looking higher mountain settings.

Maybe Brig to Milan, to Lake Como, to Lucerne? All high speed rail lines. Or a stop along the Rhine: Schaffhausen/Rheinfall/Stein am Rhine ...

Regarding wether buying the Swiss Rail half fare card pencils out, remember that for your independent 4 days in the Lauterbrunnen area, you will need a Jungfrau Top of Europe Pass. It covers the cog train and lift network that you will need to use extensively to get around that area. It includes the Jungfraujoch trip. None of that region is covered by Swiss rail passes, but the Swiss rail half price card will get you a 90 Euro discount per adult on a 3,4 or 5 day Top of the World passes.

The Swiss Travel Pass covers you in Lauterbrunnen up to Murren and Wengen and then provides a discount if you go higher.

You can check the coverage here:

https://www.myswissalps.com/swisstravelpass/validity

and here:

https://cdn-doc.myswissalps.com/docs/default-source/rail-network-maps/swisstravelpass.pdf?sfvrsn=7788603a_56

Carrie I remember the Swiss Travel Pass covering to Lauterbrunnen but not Wengen or Murren? Are you sure that's correct?

I think this is the operative but from the link you posted:

"Transport into the mountains (by cable car, funicular, cogwheel train, etc.) is discounted."

Lauterbrunnen to Wengen is a cogwheel train; to Murren it's cable car and then cogwheel train (the easy way, or bus then two cable cars up through Gimmelwald).

The cost to Wengen wasn't much (Murren probably only a little more. This past trip we bought our Top of the World Passes to be valid from the first morning we woke up in Wengen, and paid again to get down to Lauterbrunnen on our departure day before again using the Swiss Rail pass.

Carrie I remember the Swiss Travel Pass covering to Lauterbrunnen but
not Wengen or Murren? Are you sure that's correct?

Yes, I am 100% sure the Pass covers you up to Wengen and Murren. If you check the coverage map I linked to, you will see from Lauterbrunnen to both Wengen and Murren is the solid red line, indicating those routes are covered 100%. Plus, I was just there in Sept. and used my Pass multiple times on those routes.

Thanks, I'm probably misremembering then.

Swiss Travel Pass takes you to inhabited centres. Wengen and Mürren are included. Nothing above.

Hank, no worries. 😊 I’m sure the info. is constantly changing.

Thanks all for your thinking about travel passes, etc. It helps fill in some of the blanks I have.
Some of the changes I have made so far:

2 nights Lauterbrunnen and 2 nights Murren are now 4 nights Murren. Hotel/apartment choices are quite limited and more expensive from when I originally made reservations. I think I made reservations back in November, so this is a lesson I will remember regarding the importance of booking early.

The 2 nights in Interlake are now replaced with Bettmeralp.

The 2 nights in Zurich are probably going to go away. I just have to figure out where to go. We will be going into Germany after Switzerland and coming from Lake Como prior to entering Switzerland. Any ideas?

Also, I am wondering what everyone's favorite hikes are out of Murren and Wengen. On RS we will be taking the gondola to the top of Schilthorn. There is an optional hike later that same day we will probably take, but I do not know where it goes. We are not inclined to do the very pricey trip to Jungfraujoch - almost CHF 400. We will do the waterfall walks in Lauterbrunnen, so those are a given. My husband has two replaced knees, so nothing terribly strenuous for us.

Thanks again for all your thinking on my behalf.

The lift network pass "Top of Europe Pass" is pricey, but then again so is using individual tickets to get around that network. Without it your travel is to an extent limited, but if you have a Swiss rail pass (thanks for setting me straight on this community!) you can access everything below Murren and Wengen, including Murren and Wengen? (does Swiss Rail Pass it cover valley busses and the Gimmelwald/Murren lift?) If so then you can be reasonably mobile by public transit without a lot of expense.

It is however nifty to be able to use the alpine lift and alpine train network at will. For one it's incredibly comprehensive, linking far flung areas easily. For another it's incredible scenic. And the engineering and efficiency of all the ways it will zip you around the high mountains is just amazing. The lift and train network in themselves are sites.

Top of Europe Pass prices are as follows, in Swiss Francs. Includes unlimited Jungfraujoch trips (but you need to reserve ahead seats on the final train) that goes through the mountain). The reduced price is if you have a Swiss Rail Half Price Card.

3 days 249.- 159.-
4 days 269.- 179.-
5 days 289.- 199.-

It's a lot! But on our most recent trip my wife and I coughed up for a 3 day pass, and then we rode the living heck out of it. Two trips to Jungfraujoch morning and evening. Leisure sightseeing circuits all over the network. Pop over to Grindelwald for dinner. Charilifts up the huge farmed sunny slope far side of Grindelwald. We buzzed around everywhere at will and enjoyed the rides.

But it is a tricky call to fork over that much cash or not for transit you might or might not use. From Wengen it might make more sense because Wengen are in the middle of the network. In Murren you'd need to be motivated to do a lot of touring around for longer stints. I couldn't recommend a call one way or the other in your case :)

The 2 nights in Zurich are probably going to go away. I just have to
figure out where to go. We will be going into Germany after
Switzerland and coming from Lake Como prior to entering Switzerland.
Any ideas?

You could add those 2 nights to Luzern. Save yourself the time of changing hotels. I spent 7 nights in Luzern and did not run out of things to do. One of our favorites was a day trip to Bellinzona. We also had a nice day trip to Zurich—walked around and had lunch at Sprungli.

My husband has two replaced knees, so nothing terribly strenuous for
us.

My sister hurt her knee during our trip (she has rods in her back from scoliosis surgery and it’s easy for her body to get out of whack) so we did limited walking, but still had a great time enjoying the scenery. Instead of walking from Murren to Gimmelwald, we took the cable car down and back. Instead of walking from männlichen to kleine Scheidegg, we just took the cable car up to männlichen, walked around there for a bit, and took the cable car back down to Wengen. Another favorite was the funicular from Murren to Allmendhubel. There are great views too just walking around Wengen and Murren. I would have preferred to walk everywhere, but I had to keep my sister’s limitations in mind. There really is great scenery all around. So, don’t feel you have to hike to see it.

While in Basel, try to see the spalentor gate. There’s just something about those city gates that I love. 😊 We also saw a great one in Freiburg, Germany. I’m not sure where in Germany you are going, but we loved Freiburg.

I have an answer for "favorite hikes:"
Mürren:The North Face Trail. Views of the mountains across the valley are phenomenal. When we were on RS' GAS tour, our guide suggested this trail after going to the Schilthorn in the morning. My husband has had 2 hip replacements, and managed fine. We are slow hikers AND we use trekking poles whenever we hike, whether at home or on a trip.
Wengen: Männichen to Kleine Scheidegg. Technically not a hike because it is on a paved path. Again, phenomenal views of the mountains.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am lining up day trips from Luzern and hikes in BO. If there are other favorite hike suggestions, I'll gladly take them. I'm guessing that going to Mt. Pilatus and Mt. Rigi are the best day trips from Luzern. I checked out Bellizona, and it seems to be further away than I want to travel on a day trip.

Now my big challenge is figuring out the travel pass situation. I hadn't figured in the boat, cable car, etc., rides, so I am sure to see an increase in costs. Just my luck that math was not my strong subject!

I have Mt. Titlis (50% off with Swiss Travel Pass) and Stanserhorn (free with Swiss Travel Pass) on my agenda for June. As well as a repeat trip to Rigi (free with Swiss Travel Pass). I’ve watched videos on all of them, and Pilatus does not appeal to me. But, I know it’s preferred by many.

Here’s a good video on Titlis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3kTFvLbx2g

Catherine, the Swiss Travel Pass you should look at is the Flex Pass, and perhaps the Half Fare Card. A full Swiss Travel Pass for consecutive days is only good for 15 days, so you would need 2 to cover your whole time, and that would be way too expensive (850 CHF). The Flex Pass is good for X number of days within a month, so you could use it for the days you will actually be traveling by boat, bus, or train, to fully cover the costs. It will also cover 50% of most of the mountain lifts, but only on the days you activate it for use.

A 15-day Flex Pass costs 449 CHF, very little more than the 8-day pass for 409 CHF, so is the best value. It brings the cost of your travel on “covered” days down to 30 CHF on average, and you have a number of trips that are considerably higher than that. The Rigi roundtrip, for example, is 144 CHF for the boat to Vitznau, train up to Rigi Kulm and back down to Rigi Kaltbad, cablecar down to Weggis, and boat back to Luzern. With the Flex Pass, it is fully covered.

Pilatus is not fully covered with the Swiss Pass, but the boat to Alpnachstad is fully covered, and there is a discount for the cogwheel train up and cablecar down the other side.

You can look up the prices of your journeys on SBB.ch. For example, Tirano to Pontresina is 22-28 CHF, depending whether you get a Saver Day ticket (non-changeable) or not. Pontresina to Brig on the Glacier Express is 52-114 CHF in 2d class, depending whether you get the Saver price or not. You need to add the cost of travel from Brig to Betten to Bettmeralp, but it is not much. The pass covers the Brig to Betten part, but on our last trip to Switzerland in 2018 they did not give us a discount on the cablecar for the ride up to Bettmeralp. Total cost is still only 13,60, according to SBB.

For your time in Pontresina, your hotel will usually provide you with a transport ticket for all the trains and lifts in the area with a stay of 2-nights or longer, so no travel expense is incurred there.

I haven’t discussed the Half Fare Card because in 8 trips to Switzerland we have never used one; we always get the Flex Pass because I prefer the convenience of just getting on the train without buying tickets. However, if you are going up the Jungfraujoch, the 50% discount provided by the Half Fare Card is greater than the 25% provided by the Swiss Pass, so some people prefer the Half Fare Card for that reason. Not relevant to us as we don’t go there (I did on my first 2 trips and don’t need to repeat that experience).

Lots of great help with tickets. So much appreciated. I will investigate the Flex Pass. I've only been comparing the Half Fare Card and STP. Arggh... another column on the spreadsheet!

I did look at the Half Fare Card. The question I have about it: In the BO, should I also buy the BO card? Is there any advantage to doing that.

I also need help finding prices of cable cars, etc., in the BO and Luzern. I tried on the SBB app, but I can't find all of them.

Has anyone gotten the Silver Pass out of Luzern for Mt. Pilatus trip? Does it make sense to buy a combo ticket or price out the individual sections of the trip?

Good thing I have a few months to keep working on this. For anyone looking at hotels, the choices aren't good. I looked at changing some hotels and the prices are quite a bit higher if rooms are available. Yikes. Is everyone traveling to Switzerland this fall???

There is a lot of pent-up demand for travel in Europe this year, so yes, I expect hotel rooms to be scarce and expensive! Not surprised at the high prices that you are seeing.