Rick Steve Switzerland Guidebook Itinerary Questions

I wish I had read the recent post that basically asks the same question, so my apologies for not doing my homework, which I am now working on!

What are your arrival and departure points, i.e., are you flying into Zurich and out of Geneva? If arriving Zurich, start in Luzern and spend the final night in Lausanne. if arriving Geneva start in Lausanne with your final night in Luzern. Both points are about an hour from the airport so very convenient unless arrival is very very late or departure unreasonable early. That may determine the order of the itinerary, but overall I think the pace R.S. suggests is exhausting.

In May, there will be wildflowers in the valley and snow on the peaks. Mornings especially will be chilly and as mountain weather can be fickle, at least three nights in a mountain location is advised in hopes of ensuring at least one clear day.

Here’s what I would suggest for 14 nights based on personal experience in the country.

Luzern (3)

Appenzell (4)

Mürren or Wengen (4 as no one ever has enough time in this area and there is so much to experience)

Lausanne (3)

That leaves one night to allocate where you will.

Note, I suggest Mürren or Wengen over Gimmelwald as they are much more convenient bases and have much more to offer for dining.

Ya, his suggested itinerary is a bit crazy in my opinion. It’s a whirlwind plan. And I really don’t like Lausanne, Montreux or one of the smaller villages like St-Prex is better. I’d probably recommend something like this:

Been (2)
Zermatt (2)
Montreux (3)
Murren (4)
Luzern (3)

Laurel, thanks so much for your reply. We are flying in and out of Milan, with our first overnight stop in Menaggio and our last in Milan. To commect with our arrival/departure point, my plan was to start at Lugano (taxi from Menaggio, or stay in Lugano instead) by taking the Panorama Express route to Lucerne and conclude with a trip over the Bernina Pass from St Moritz (or Chur). I haven't looked at the logistics of your recommended itinerary, so I will do that this evening.

I agree with you that the suggested itinerary is a bit rushed and compacted, not unlike the tours. We definitely prefer more time in fewer destinations (or better yet, more time in MORE destinations!) so we can ger familiar with our surroundings before we have to pack up and head to the next stop. If we are lucky, we can also make some new friends in these destinations, or at least have a chance to chat with some of the locals or like-minded tourists we meet.

Given that our visit this year would be the first few weeks of May, would we would be able to utilize that much time in Appenzell and Wengen/Lauterbrunnen? My assumption has been that there would be too much snow on the ground and/or impassable trails to do more than lower elevation hikes (which would ordinarily be my primary objective when visiting both of these destinations). Also, when I did a quick look at available lodging in Murren for May, there was not much to be had. Lodging in Gimmelwald is even slimmer pickings; I have yet to look at Wengen, but I suspect it will be similar to the other two. Given all that, Lauterbrunnen seems like a better choice for an early-mid May vist.

The photos I've seen of the Lauterbrunnen Valley reminds me a lot of Yosemite Valley, ie, a lower elevation (~4000 ft), glacier-carved valley with a high elevation rim (albeit no gorgeous towns with chair lifts like Gimmelwald or Murren on the rim of Yosemite Valley, just trails). I also wanted to ask about your omission of Bern and Zermatt, the later being another world class hiking destination. The Yosemite High country (Glacier Point, Tuolumne Meadows, Tioga Road) is one of my Sierra "happy places", so if the Lauterbrunnen Valley is anything like that, I will be a happy man indeed.

https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/switzerland/best-switzerland-tour

The above is a link to the current RS Best of Switzerland in 12 Days Tour. My wife and I have signed up for the tour this summer and we are really looking forward to it. It's a little different than the guidebook so I recommend you give it a look over and also read the comments of folks who have taken it.

Of course, it is easy to understand that some want a slower pace, fewer stops, less packing and unpacking. I find as I age I appreciate "less is more" at times, especially when covering places we've been before. (But I also still think "more is more" too!)

The folks above have given some great advice that may suit you better than Rick's energetic pace. Fantastic insights!

Happy travels!

Wanderweg, thanks for the input-I've been impressed with what I have read about Bern and Montreux so far, so I'd like to keep them in the plan if I can. However, that is part of my problem-all of them have merit, either as a destination unto itself or as a gateway, so maybe I should add more days and see them all!

time in Appenzell and Wengen/Lauterbrunnen? My assumption has been that there would be too much snow on the ground and/or impassable trails to do more than lower elevation hikes

We were there in May 2023 for 11 nights, and while higher elevation hikes like Männlichen to Kleine Scheidegg are not feasible, there are many that are, such as the lovely trail between Grütschalp and Mürren, the Lauterbrunnen Valley itself, the Mönchblick and Staubbachbänkli in Wengen, and many many more. You can also ride the lifts and trains to higher elevations including Kleine Scheidegg and take the Eiger Express cableway.

Appemzell is a little lower elevation. I took Pontresina off because I think May is too out-of-season for there. Appenzell is, IMO, not worth going to for 2 nights. Too out-of-the-way.

Laurel, thanks again. I am VERY glad to hear that there are so many nice hikes possible in May-that was my hope all along, but without any local knowledge, I wasn't sure that was likely or not. I am glad to see so many hotels open in mid-May in both Murren and Wengen, , so I am busy looking at those and expanding our time in this area (at the expense of another stop, of course). 11 nights in the Berner Oberland sounds heavenly, but even half that would be wonderful-time to do some itinerary scrubbing!

We have been to Yosemite many times, including 4 nights in October of this year. We spent 6 nights in the Berner Oberland in June (3 nights Wengen/3 nights Mürren). If you love the high country of Yosemite, I predict that you will love Wengen and Mürren! I sure did. We also spent 3 nights in Lucerne, which was great.

We did Laurel's suggested hikes--they were all great.

Barbara, thanks for confirming my comparison, and you are absolutely correct-if BO is like Yosemite, I may never want to leave.

So for my itinerary, the "must have" mountain villages are Murren/Wengen and Sanky Gallen, so my intent is to plan around these two destinations. Laurel, if Sankt Gallen is also hiking friendly in May, then I would want to follow your recommendation of 4 nights, with another 5 for Murren or Wengen. Lucerne work best as our first stop since we would be starting the trip in Lugano (a taxi ride from Menaggio), so I will nominally assign 2 nights to Lucerne. We also would like to see the Bernina train route and the route between St Moritz and Chur, so we need at least one night in Zermatt or Brig and Chur or St Moritz, Then we need 2 nights at the start of the trip for decompressing on Lake Como from our LA-Milan flight and 3 nights for a bit of sightseeing in Milan (at the end). So that looks like this:

Menaggio-2
Lucerne-2
St Gallen/Appenzell-4
Murren/Wengen-5
Zermatt/Brig-1
Chur/Pontresina/St Moritz-1
Milan-3

Subtotal-18

Lugano to Lucerne is the Panorama Express, so we will baseline that for the first Swiss train segment. The stretch between Zermatt/Brig and Chur/St Moritz is the Glacier Express route-if we splurge for Excellence Class, we would need the end points to be Zermatt and St Moritz, but if it is "regular" first or second class, either of the pair at each end works. Similarly for the Bernina Express-Chur or St Moritz to Tirano both work, and the scenic stretch between Chur and St Moritz could either be on the Glacier or the Bernina Express (or a standard train).

We currently have a flight booked in and out of Milan with 22 nights between the arrival and departure days, so 22-18 leaves 4 nights to sprinkle on other destinations or increase the length of stay of those on the must-have list. I'm happy with 5 nights in the BO and 4 in Sankt Gallen (following Laurel's suggestion), so now I can either lengthen some of the other stops or add a new one. Time to fire up Rome2Rio and play with the routing.

Gimmelwald is really really small. More a crossroads with a few buildings than even a small village. It can be seen in 5 minutes either from the cable car station or from the walk down from Mürren. That walk down may have bits of snow in the shady areas but if the sun has been out should be fine.

Weather in that area can vary in May, from warm to snow, and maybe both on the same day. I think you will have a good time.

I expect that there are hotels if you dig down, but not much in Gimmelwald.

If you have 4 extra nights, absolutely do not stay in Brig and Chur and I think you have plenty of stops. Just add some cushion to each to enjoy a bit more.

Menaggio-2-3
Lucerne- 3-4 (can do day trips to Bern, Rigi, Pilatus, Zurich, villages on the lake, etc. Plenty of options)
St Gallen/Appenzell-4
Murren/Wengen-5
Zermatt - 2
Pontresina or St Moritz- 2
Milan-3

And in playing around with your routing, I highly recommend doing this via SBB.ch/en to see actual train times and routes, as Rome2Rio isn’t always accurate.

What is the Zermatt hiking scene like in May? 2 nights really gives u one full day, which is probably sufficient for a cable car or rail trip up to higher elevations, but if there is more to do in May, I could steal a night from Pontresina and add it to Zermatt.

Laurel's input notwithstanding, I also keep wondering if May is the best time to visit if our primary objective is hiking-if it truly is like Yosemite or the Sierras, then late August or September would have much better trail conditions. May will have lots of wildflowers but also I would expect more variable weather than in late August or September. Unfortunately, our dates for this year are pretty much locked in, so I am also looking at the possibility of "dipping our toe" into Switzerland as part of a trip that includes northern Italy (maybe the Piedmont or the Veneto). This will be our first visit to Switzerland, so I want it to be a memorable one, but in a positive way!

I think May for Piemonte and the Veneto is good timing, before it is too hot. It is not an easy transition from Swiss mountain locations to Italian cities via public trans, so be sure you research that carefully before deciding. Use www.Trenitalia.com and/or www.Sbb.com. Personally, I like using the SBB site better between the two countries but AFAIK you must do so on the website for international travel, not on the app.

I can't say what the hiking conditions in Zermatt in May will be, but I will say that in all my many trips to Switzerland I have been to Zermatt once and never returned (like Charlie on the MTA, but for different reasons) and I return to the Lauterbrunnen Valley every time, and usually include Mürren.

Laurel, thanks again. FWIW, I use R2R to get a visual idea of how the various destinations could be stitched together (a bit like Google Maps, but with trains and buses as well as roads), but then I switch to SBB or one of the other train sites to flesh out the actual time tables and connections. I am impressed with SBB-i especially like the detailed route and station maps that pop up for each train itinerary, which then tells me if there are any interim stops I should consider between points A and B. Trainline gives me a quicker answer for fares but doesn't have the visual tools like SBB, which IMHO is the best train site available for Europe.

Zermatt seems like the riskiest destination on the itinerary; it is a strategic location for the Glacier Express, but since we will be traveling on other scenic routes (Panorama, Bernina, the Golden Pass if we add Montreux, the Voralpen between Lucerne and St Gallen), I am okay with giving up the Glacier Express and dropping Zermatt. In fact, if I substitute Montreux (or Lausanne) for Zermatt, we get a more balanced itinerary, one that more evenly splits our time between mountain towns and cities (which Mrs W favors).

Berner Oberland should be fine, although Lauterbrunnen might work better in the face of variable weather; then if the weather turns bad, we can take a day trip to Bern (maybe even Gruyeres) for some indoors sightseeing (or at least walking paved surfaces in the rain). We won't get the spectacular views from our room like we would in Murren or Wengen and the cable cars will be less accessible, but that seems like a minor inconvenience. However, after looking at some of the places we could stay in Murren and Wengen (and the amazing views from the hotels), that may be easier said than done!

Substituting Montreux or Lausanne for Zermatt will give us exposure to the French side of Switzerland, and St Gallen could be a good substitute for Appenzell, which would also give us easier access to a rental car if we want to drive to some of the nearby towns (Lindau across the border, maybe even Lichtenstein). Lucerne seems like a good candidate for more time for day trips or additional sightseeing in the city and surrounding area.

So with those changes, the itinerary looks like like this:

Menaggio-3
Lucerne-4
Lauterbrunnen-4
Montreux-3
Sankt Gallen-4
Pontresina-1
Milan-3

Not counting Menaggio and Milan (which offset each other for the outdoor/city split), that gives us a roughly 50/50 split between cities and mountain towns, which I think is a good approach for hedging our bets on the weather and trail conditions. It drops the Glacier Express but includes four other scenic train routes.

I noticed a rather long train route between St Gallen and Milan that includes the Bernina Pass-it is close to 9 hours on the train, but it also eliminates the need to spend a single night in Pontresina. There is a faster route through Lucerne and Lugano over the Panorama Express route, but we will be traveling that route on our transfer from Menaggio to Lucerne.

David, a belated thanks for posting the RS tour link-it is interesting that Zermatt is a day trip and not an overnight stop. FWIW, we are older and have slowed down a bit, but we can still accommodate the frenetic pace of a RS tour if we chose, but if given the choice, we prefer DIY tours that we can tailor to our specific wants and needs (I think the British call that "bespoke"). Our one and only RS tour was to Athens and the Peloponnese in 2014, which had several single night stops, and we had a blast despite our distaste for such short stops. Mrs W and I both liked the tour vibe-we met some great people that we still chat with (about travel, of course!), so if this is your first tour, you will have a wonderful time and will undoubtedly meet some fascinating fellow travelers. If this is not your first, you have the benefit of already knowing the ropes!

maybe even Lichtenstein

unless you just want another check mark against a country name, I wouldn't waste the effort. I have eaten at a decent McDonalds in Vaduz, and that was the highlight of a detour into Lichtenstein. I've never been back despite being close.

I may be backpedaling on Zermatt-Mrs W didn't realize that adding Montreux meant dropping Zermatt, so back to the drawing board I go. I think my daughter has been whispering in her ear-she and her husband visited Zermatt in May and loved it, so I might be on the losing side of this vote.

Nigel, I read a bit more about Lichtenstein and have to agree that it is probably not worth allocating time for, especially if it means subtracting something else from the itinerary.

OK, Zermatt is back in, so now I need to decide on how many nights we should stay. I currently have space for 2 nights after a 5 night stay in the Berner Oberland, but I cold change that to 4+3 if there is enough to keep us occupied in Zermatt for two days. We will be departing on the Glacier Express the morning of the third day, so no opportunity to do much that day except check out.

We also did some reading about Bern, Montreux and Lausanne-of the three, Bern interests us the most because of the medieval core and the museums, but even with that, I think spending more time in a place like the Berner Oberland is a better option than a few nights in a city.

I like Bern quite a lot, the arcades, the clock tower, the trams and electric buses, the rose garden, the Einstein statue, the Gurten, the violin shop near the tram shelter (now a restaurant), the bears, walking around the lower town along the river, and plenty more.

But I have been to Switzerland many times since 1972, and Bern is a nice distraction.

For someone new to the country I'd stick to the more unique places, and many people go for the views, the vistas, the mountains. That's what I'd suggest.

Let me put in a little plug for Gimmelwald. It is small, quiet, and gorgeous. I stayed 5 nights at the Pension Gimmelwald and found it a wonderful base for exploring, the breakfast was amazing, and dinners, if you reserve ahead, were perfect, rustic mountain meals. The lift is less than a 5 minute walk, and there is something so lovely about living in a small community for a few days. Personally i didn't like Wengen or Murren as they felt touristy. Lauterbrunnen was also lovely, and probably won't be that crowded in May.

I also adored Lausanne, for the opposite reason. It was a city with public transport, ferries and walks along the lake, beautiful views and lots to see. It was also easy access to Bern, and other cities in that part of the country. In a 2 week visit, it is nice to have something different from the mountains. Montreaux would be equally convenient, but much smaller.

History Nurse, thanks for the thoughts. Mrs W (who happens to be a retired RN) also prefers we not spend our entire time in the mountains, which was another reason I was considering straddling the border and visiting both Switzerland and Turin, but I plan to look at Lausanne and Montreux as well. Regarding Gimmelwald, I think if I was on a more hiking-oriented trip, I would jump at the chance to base in Murren or Gimmelwald, but I also think that Lauterbrunnen is a good compromise, as it is well located to visit the valley itself as well as both sides, ie Jungfrau to the east, Schilthorn to the west (I stole that idea from Laurel, who posted that on a different thread!).

Nigel, I keep coming back to Bern as an overnight stop-it is a great transport node, and what I have read about the medieval core sounds like it would be a nice place to return to after sightseeing in other (more popular) cities. I know the majority here prefer Lucerne over Bern, but since we will get more than our fill of the Alps in Appenzell, BO and Zermatt, a nice (maybe even a bit boring) home base with a lrss tourist-oriented vibe has a lot of attraction. With the easy and speedy train connections, Bern would be a great base for visits to Lucerne, Lausanne, Montreux, Murten and other smaller towns and village I have yet to discover. I did notice that Bern is not much different in the cost of accommodations compared to more popular cities like Lucerne, so the trade continues. If I want to pretend we live in Switzerland, Bern seems like a great place to do that.

FYI, here is the itinerary I am working to at the moment, with a version that includes the Piedmont in the hopper:

Menaggio-4
Appenzell-4
Lucerne or Bern-3
Lauterbrunnen-4
Zermatt-3
Pontresina-1
Milan-3
(Total of 22 nights)

This itinerary is heavily weighted toward the mountains, ie 11 nights (15 if you count Menaggio), vs 6 nights in cities (not sure which bin Pontresina goes in, since it is a 1 night stop to connect the Glacier and Bernina Expresses); given the unbalanced nature of the plan, I may need to market this to Mrs W and get her buy-in before I commit. FWIW, my notional idea for a combo Piedmont-Switzerland itinerary would be to substitute Turin and more time in Milan for Appenzell and Lucerne, which would move us more toward a more balanced city/mountain trip plan.

Question: should I consider renting a car for our 4 nights in Appenzell? Since it seems pretty rural, drivng there is probably easy and stress-free, and having a car would give us more options for accommodations and getting to and from sights and/or trailheads.

Regarding Piemonte, one plan I've been looking at is this:

Turin-5
Stresa-3
Lucerne-3
Lauterbrunnen-4
Zermatt-3
Pontresina-1
Milan-3

This divides our time 50/50 between Italy and Switzerland but is more city-centric than my current baseline (I lumped Stresa into the "city" bin). The routing looks pretty challenging, but I could swap Appenzell for Lucerne and get a 50/50 split between city and mountain destinations. Maybe there is something closer to Piedmont that would serve that purpose, like the Aosta Valley or Gran Paradiso NP.