Rail pass for Switzerland and Austria

Where did you find tht price for Innsbruck to Salzburg? Not Rail Europe, I hope. Always go to the national websites and look for advance-purchase tickets. I see €28 for innsbrucknto Salzburg and €19 for Zurich to Innsbruck. Use the SparScheine section of the OEBB

https://ticketing.oebb.at/inet/pub/en/discount

Just remember these tickets are for a specific train and non-refundable if your plans change.

So what I suggest is just a Swiss pass, not a combined. Swiss-Austria one. (A Swiss pass is better anyway, as the combined pass does not fully cover some of the mountain train and lifts, or the private railways.

Your options would be an 8-day Swiss Pass for maximum flexibility ( pay for the ride from Zurich to Luzern on Day 1 and activate the pass on Day 2); a Berner Oberland Pass; a 3-Day Flex Pass plus discounted Half Fare Card; or simply a Half-Fare card.

It is not easy to figure out the cheapest option but worth running the numbers for your planned trips. Also take into account the convenience factor---with a pass you just board the train; with a Half fare Card you stop and purchase tickets each time.

Any of these passes will give you a discount on the Zurichnto Innsbruck trip as far as the border, so compare prices between SBB.ch and OEBB before buying the ticket for that leg of your journey.

Thanks Lola! Your advice has helped alot :-) !!

Just wondering, if I decide on just buying point to point tickets for the Austrian leg of our trip, is there a way to purchase a ticket just for a specific day so as not to lock ourselves in for a specific time on that day- just in case we miss the train, or decide we want to take an earlier/later one etc? I'm not sure I could pick an actual time of day at this stage.

Karen

As stated above, those prices you found are extortionate. Another example of a RailEurope rip off. Even if you buy your Innsbruck to Salzburg tickets at the counter at the train station on the day of travel (total flexibility) they will cost less than half of what you quote above. For Salzburg to Vienna, take the Westbahn train where you can purchase tickets on board from the attendant for 24.90 Euro. Trains run every hour and you get free wifi.

RE should be avoided at all costs. For a website that promotes cheap travel and do it yourself and using the "back door" it simply doesn't make sense to see how many times unsuspecting travelers are funneled to the RE website from the RS experts who regularly post here.

Thanks Emily and Tim. Looks like I will just purchase my tickets through OEBB before we go, or once we are there.... Tim, are you saying you would also not recommend the Swiss Pass for the Switzerland part of our trip?

For Switzerland, some kind of Swiss Pass or Half Fare Card is often a good deal. Unfortunately, you have to crunch the numbers to see which one is the best for your needs.

Use the Swiss rail site to get prices for point-to-point tickets, but be careful - the first price displayed is with a half-fare card, so you need to be sure you are looking at the price without the card (choose a train, then select "No Reduction"): http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html

About the half-fare card, one great advantage is you can't go wrong. It gets you 50% off everything that moves in the entire country (even city buses). If you add up the transit you know you are taking and it comes to more than twice the cost of the card, you will not lose money on it. It also gives 50% off the expensive Jungfraujoch trip (most other passes give only 25% off).

On the other hand, one advantage of the Swiss Pass over the half-fare card is that, for covered days and fully covered transit, you don't need to buy tickets; just board, and show your pass when the ticket-checker comes around. You only need to buy tickets for things that are not 100% covered (like the Schilthornbahn and Jungfraujoch). With the half fare card, you need to buy tickets each time.

The trip from Luzern to Mt. Rigi is fully covered by the Swiss Pass, so if you know you will make that trip, that's another point in favor of a Swiss Pass. But again, you should look at the numbers to see what works best; just be sure, as said above, that you're looking at the real numbers from Swiss Rail, not the ones from Rick's map or from Rail Europe which are inflated.

HI Karen,

Both Lola and Harold's advice is spot on. For your itinerary, I agree with Lola's suggestion of buying individual tickets from the Zurich airport to Luzern and an 8-day Consecutive Swiss Pass for your Swiss travel. This pass will cover all trains, boats, buses, public transit within cities and most museums. It will also give you a 50% discount on high mountain lifts, such as the Schilthorn and a 25% discount on the Jungfraubahn. You can buy this pass at the train station in the Zurich airport when you arrive and buy the Zurich-Luzern ticket or ahead, online through the Swiss Rail website - www.sbb.ch. Buying indidvidual tickets ahead online for the Austrian portion of your trip will be the best deal, see www.oebb.at.

Just to clarify and correct what Tim has said above, no Rick Steves staff member ever tries to steer people in the direction of Rail Europe to buy railpasses or tickets unless it makes sense for their particular trip. We always recommend people do the math and buy what is the most economical and convenient for their particular trip. Contrary to popular belief on this forum, Railpasses do make sense for some travelers. In my job here at Rick Steves as a travel consutlant, I help people figure this out everyday. Sometimes when we do the math, a railpass it's actually cheaper or in some cases, very close to the cost of point-to-point tickets. If it's close, then the pass can give you greater flexability and ease, depending of course on the countries you are traveling through. It really depends on where you travel and how far in advance you plan or want to plan. Quite often, I talk people out of buying railpasses when they come talk to me. Again, it really depends on your particular trip. It is not our policy to sell people railpasses who do not need them.

People have been conditioned over the years to think that railpasses are the only way to go in Europe, we seem to be in a transitional phase where that is not always the case anymore. So confusion reigns.

And to add to the confusion, this site has a link on the main page (!) to buy rail passes. People who are new to this and trust Rick see that and assume it is the way to go. It ain't right. Also, the train map with prices in it? Those prices are out of date and/or the most expensive tickets you could get. No one pays those prices any more. Update that train map with advance purchase point to point prices and then it's fair. But as it is now, this site tells people to compare a rail pass and point to point using that inflated price map. The rail pass will almost always look cheaper, but it is a deception.

Wow thanks guys! I was getting pretty confused and really getting "cold feet" about the whole catching trains around Europe thing... You have all been great with your advice and help. I think we will definitely go for the Swiss Pass - I really like the idea of NOT having to try to figure our how to buy a ticket at each station, especially if time is tight. It will also be great if the weather is against us so we can gain entry to museums and such. For the Austrian portion, as we only have a small number of train trips there, I will buy them online (from OBB direct). Oh, one final question - on the day we travel from Bern to Innsbruck, the Swiss Pass will cover us to the border at Buchs I believe. Do I just buy a ticket from Buchs to Innsbruck in this case?

Thanks again! You guys are great :-)

Buying train tickets in Europe is easy. Go to the ticket counter and buy the ticket. Nothing hard at all about that.

As for the Salzburg to Vienna, I strongly recommend Westbahn trains for which you buy the tickets on board. The Westbahn trains are the blue and green ones.

Switzerland is really one of the few countries that a rail pass makes sense. Most people will find that the Half Fare Card is really the most economical option for traveling in Switzerland...while the full blown Swiss Pass is obviously nicer for its convenience of just hopping on and off wherever you want whenever you want. Switzerland is a great country with amazing scenery and an equally amazing integrated public transport system.

PS - if you're planning a trip to the expensive Jungfraujoch then the savings from having a Half Fare Card almost PAYS for the card itself.

yes Phred, in the past rail passes were a much better deal then they are today. Like many other things, prices change. We try to give people the information to decide for themselves. There is a link on our main pages to buy railpasses because we do still sell them and for many people, they can still be a good deal. When you click on the link from our main page, the first paragraph says "Based on your trip itinerary, will you be better off buying point-to-point tickets or a rail pass? If it’s a rail pass, which one? The information here will help you choo-choose wisely. You’ll also find a wealth of practical train-travel tips." We list a lot of information on train travel in general, not just railpasses and we do include links to European rail websites with tips for purchasing tickets. As stated earlier, we always tell people to do the math and decide for themselves.

Our point-to-point maps are based on the average price of full-fare ticket purchased a day or two ahead and are updated every year. If you go to the Austrian rail website and look at the cost of a ticket from Salzburg to Vienna for tomorrow, the cost is €51.10 which, at todays exchange rate is about $55. Our map shows a price of $65, which was correct last December when the exchange rate was higher. Yes Emily, these are inflated prices over advance-purchase tickets, but not everyone has the foresight or time to plan or buy tickets ahead. In my job here, I talk to people everyday and help them plan their trips. You would be surprised at the number of people who do not plan ahead or who do not want to plan ahead and prefer to be flexible. Yes, it's cheaper to buy advance purchase, discounted tickets, but these are often more restrictive and some people prefer to be more flexible. That flexibility has a cost, which is always more expensive than planning ahead. We are not tying to deceive anyone. All we can do is to give people the information and hope they make an educated decision.

Just to be clear, it's not that it's "hard" or "confusing" to buy tickets each time. As Emily says, you just go to the window and buy the ticket, or buy it from a machine. It's that it does take a bit of time, there may be a line, etc. With the Swiss Pass, you don't have to take the extra step. Particularly in the Berner Oberland (where you're always going up or down on something), I appreciated the convenience.

For pass holders, keep in mind my previous admonitions to fill out your pass each day.

Sorry, Rich, but I don't buy the whole argument that people don't have the foresight to purchase tickets for the train ahead. Travelers are always buying airline tickets ahead, so what is the big difference with the train? It is not like there is a ton of flexibility with long distance trains either. Maybe a 2-3 choices each day. People should have no problem committing to a specific train at a specific time. You buy the ticket, you get on the train and plan your trip around it.

And, yes, let's talk about that Salzburg to Vienna leg and its cost. I also looked at the website and the costs for 2-3 days out is still 19 Euro. Keep in mind that Westbahn trains are always 24.90 and you buy those tickets on the train. I'm sorry, but $65 is just not correct, nor is $55. Overall, however, I just really have a problem with the association this site has with Rail Europe. I've been on here long enough to see dozens of hapless, naïve travelers realize too late what a mistake a rail pass was for them. They pretty much always assumed that a rail pass is the only way.

Rich, you are talking to people who want help in planning their trips, but they aren't interested in planning ahead for train travel? Do you let them know how much money they can save? I see advance tickets on the Bahn website for about 25% of the cost of day-of-purchase. Same for Trenitalia. This is also way cheaper that using a day on a Railpass.

Karen----for your travel from Bern into Austria. You can buy a ticket on SBB.ch that takes your Swiss pass into account---there is a drop-down menu to enter the type of pass you have. Or you can buy at any ticket window---just show your pass and the agent will give you the correct fare for the journey.

You would be surprised at how many people don't want to plan ahead or I should say, plan every detail ahead. Some people book their flights and a hotel in their arrival city but prefer to keep their plans open (this is especially true for college students). Others may be traveling to Europe on a last minute business trip and decide to add on some vacation time to either end. In a situation like this, they may only have a week or two to plan ahead. If these same people are traveling in Summer, often the advance, purchase, discounted tickets are already sold out. Other people may be between jobs or recently retired and decide to take a trip spur of the moment. I talk to all types of people.

Most people I speak with are planning their trips out months ahead, creating an itinerary where they can commit to booking trains and flights well in advance. Many do just that, buying individual tickets or passes if it's a good value for them, but even some of these people prefer to have some flexibility in their schedule. They may book long distance trains with limited schedules ahead, but choose to wait and book shorter trips, even if it means paying more for a last minute train ticket. I always stress the importance of booking train tickets and flights ahead to save money, letting them know that flexibility has a price. Everyone is different and it's one of the things that makes my job interesting.

As for our association with Rail Europe, they are the largest seller of European railpasses and train tickets in North America and for many people, its the easiest option for buying passes, reservations and tickets all in the same place. Believe it or not, railpasses are still a good value for some people. It really depends on your individual trip. Where and when you are traveling and how flexible you want to be. Does Rail Europe charge more for individual tickets than European rail websites? Yes. But not all European rail websites are created equal. Some are frustrating and difficult to use, especially for older people who may not be very web savvy. Some people would rather call Rail Europe on the phone and pay more for a train ticket than try and navigate a difficult to use foreign website. We are not trying to trick or deceive anyone into buying a railpass if they don't need one. We can only give them information to make an educated decision for themselves.

They problem I have with RE is that they do not WARN that they only sell tickets for a limited number of trains/times - they don't tell you up front "Hey, you might find a connection that better fits your schedule by looking elsewhere and in the process you could save 50% or more". And that really is a bit like preying on the less web savvy traveler or less savvy traveler in general (no matter the age). Are they easier to deal with than other travel sites? Not so sure of that. I think what might actually give the false impression of being easier is that North American credit cards are rejected far less frequently (because it's a North American company) and foreign train sites typically send up a red flag to our North American credit cards. But that is easily remedied by a simple phone call to the credit card company BEFORE purchasing.

Anything that hints at preying on the less savvy just doesn't fit the mold or the "mantra" of the Rick Steves mode of travel. I appreciate most everything that the RS website / company does for travelers, but the Rail Europe association and direct links from this website just don't seem to fit into the RS fabric.

Gee that's odd, most businesses do this all the time .........

they don't tell you up front "Hey, you might find a connection that better fits your schedule by looking elsewhere and in the process you could save 50% or more".

Hmmm looks like I've started a bit of a war of words here, but that is good!! it's only through discussion like this that us travelers learn what we need to look out for - you often don't know which questions to ask! Over here in Australia, it seems most people talk "rail-pass" but I certainly have many other options now....

Yes, the RE website's point to point fares are certainly more than SBB or OBB, so you wouldn't want to buy point to point with them. If your're still looking for a rail-pass still, then it's useful. Advance purchase fares are certainly way cheaper, and if you have to make a reservation for a seat on a certain train, then you will of course know which specific train you will need to book so that would make sense as well. If, as in our case, I'm not sure which time I want to travel from Innsbruck to Salzburg for example (we might get to Innsbruck and want to spend most of the next day there and take an afternoon train, or it might be pouring with rain and so we decide to take an earlier train), the cheapest advance (non-changeable) ticket wouldn't do for us on that leg. So everyone has valid points and it seems each leg of our trip needs individual consideration (which is probably why some people go with a rail-pass!!!)

So thank you all for the lively, informative discussion....

One more question - some websites tell me I need to have a reservation on the Bern to Innsbruck leg (crossing borders) but some say that is not necessary. How do I find out which train needs a reservation? Same for the Lucerne to Interlaken leg - I think it's on the Golden line?

Thanks again everyone :-)

For your Innsbruck to Salzburg ticket, just buy at the counter at the station before you get on the train. It will still be cheaper than RailEurope.

You can use the German Deutsche Bahn website for looking up train schedules an routes anywhere in Europe: www.bahn.com. After doing a search between any two given cities, it will show you whether a particular train requires a reservation or not. Look for an "R" within a gray circle in the Products column. When looking at the details on any schedule, it will say "Compulsory reservation" when a reservation is required or sometimes "Please reserve" which means reservations are recommended but optional. See this webpage for tips on using the site: www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/online-schedules

Most trains in Switzerland, Austria and Germany don't require reservations with a railpasss. There are few exceptions, mainly overnight trains, some ICE sprinter trains and most of the Swiss scenic trains such as the Glacier Express. The Golden Pass scenic train is completely covered by a Swiss railpass and does not require reservations, unless you want the front row VIP seats, available on some of the panorama trains. The Golden Pass can be a popular route, so while reservations are not required, they are recommended, especilaly when traveling during summer. You can make these at any Swiss train station a few days ahead. There are regular Swiss trains going from Interlaken to Luzern, so you don't need to take the Golden Pass, although I highly recomemmend it, as it's a beautiful trip!

When going from Bern to Innsbruck, reservations are recommended but not required. If you are going to get a Swiss railpass, then I'd buy this ticket and reserve the train when you are in Switzerland, as part of the route will be covered by your Swiss pass.

Thanks Rich. I now have a pretty clear picture of what we need/will do for our travels.

When you said "There are regular Swiss trains going from Interlaken to Luzern, so you don't need to take the Golden Pass, although I highly recomemmend it, as it's a beautiful trip!", do you mean that the trains marked Golden Pass line take a different route between Luzern and Interlaken than the regular trains do, or are they just better trains for viewing from?

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

There are 3 routes on the ground used between Luzern and Interlaken.

The two flatland routes are further and much less scenic.

The scenic route is via the Brunig Pass using narrow gauge (but extremely modern) trains over the steep windy route. Along the shores of Brienzersee, to Meiringen where meringue was invented and where the Reichenbach Falls are of Sherlock Holmes fame, up onto the cliff, through the woods with great views of Giessbach Falls and several other waterfalls, up over the summit and past beautiful lakes and mountains, and then arriving in Luzern with an arm of the Vierwalstaettersee (Lake Lucerne) on your right hand side.

I regularly take that route and usually use the local un-named trains which all have panorama windows in both First and Second class, and just grab a seat in with the locals. No reservations. The woman from whom I rented an Airbnb room in Meiringen uses that train every day to go to work in Luzern. What a view. She said that she is usually reading a book instead of looking out. oh well.

You can do the same route on the tourist trains marketed as Golden Pass. They are older carriages with a fancy paint job, and marketed to tourists. They have panoramic cars in First but not Second class, and are only a few each day. Same route, same stops. Same speed, same view.

Ah, I see! Thanks Nigel - I will be sure to take the scenic route!! Funny about the lady reading her book - I had a friend tell me the same story when they took the Glacier Express train. I guess people get used to everything eventually. I can't imagine myself, coming from flat, dry Western Australia....