Is the Glacier Express worthwhile

Flying between Paris and Geneva/Zürich is a waste of time and money, the train is a better option. And yes, you have to change in Visp to get to Zermatt if you're coming from Geneva.

You don't mention what small towns you are considering, but since christmas markets tend to be in the town centres visiting them by train or bus is usually the best option. The markets are often within walking distance of the station and parking can be hard to find and expensive.

And is the Glacier express worthwile? De gustibus non est disputandum. The views are great but you can also get the same views from a regular train on the same route.

as far as the Glacier Express, or any train on that route - you are high up in the Alps so they are less impressive as you are up in them. That's the traditional route, Brig to Chur, and it goes, on most times, in a tunnel under the highest bit.

For me the route is long, repetitive, and dare I say it for me boring after a while, and I have been on all the Swiss scenic routes over the years. I have done it once (actually one and a half) and have no need to do it again.

If you want the glitz and glamour of the first class with the tilting wine glasses, fair play. That's not for me and second in the normal trains is plenty for me.

I really much prefer the Chur - Tirano Bernina Express or its regular train track mates who go over the same ground with the same views at the same speed. Nothing like the Landwasser Viaduct, the dogbone tunnels and spiral tunnels, twisting and turning all the time from one valley and mountainside to another. And then the open spiral as you cross into Italy. Incomparable.

I have done the whole route of the Bernina twice and bits and pieces of it over many days.

Can you tell which I prefer, and why?

Driving with ice and slush around can be safe for experienced drivers, until it isn't. Not always your car gives up. You can be in the way of somebody less skilled than yourself.

But most of the time it won't be icy at low altitudes, and when it is pay attention. Black ice is invisible - drive watching a km or two ahead.

We did the Glacier Express years ago from St. Moritz to Zermatt and loved it. The scenery was spectacular and we enjoyed having dinner on the train. Unlike Nigel, we have not taken that many train journeys through Switzerland so for us the experience was unique. We love traveling by train. For us it is not just a means of getting from point a to point b.

We live in the mountains on the west coast of the US and are well practiced in driving in snow and ice having also grown up in New England where we have really snowy winters. We time our drives over the mountains from Reno to California for when the road conditions are pretty clear. As Nigel says, you may be experienced in driving on snowy roads but there are others out there who are not. They think that because they have four wheel drive they can drive as if they were on dry roads and then cause issues.

Thank you badger, Nigel and Mary. Thank you for your views and advice. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions.

@badger, In Germany we are going to Fussen, Dinkensbuhl, Rothenburg ob de Tauber, Nuremberg and Regensburg. In France we are going to Strassbourg, Riquewihr and Colmar. I understand these towns will be busy so thought a car would be best so we can stay just outside of them.

My reasoning for getting the plane to Geneva was to reduce the amount of trains we are going on. But I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise.

What passes would be best for trains in Switzerland?

If you are in Colmar, you are only 45 minutes from Basel, Switzerland by train, so no point backtracking to Paris to fly to Geneva.

Another factor in renting a car is that you will have to get a van big enough to hold 6 people and all of their luggage. That can be quite expensive, and all the places you mention have frequent train service (except Dinkelsbuhl). Anyway, you have a lot of time to hone your plan.

In Switzerland, the Swiss Travel Pass is convenient, if a bit pricey. As far as the Glacier Express goes, Badger said it best, if in Latin. Some people make a special trip just for that and love it. Others maybe less impressed. The only way to know is to do it.

Even if you were starting from Paris to go to Geneva the train takes 3 hours 11 minutes City Centre to City Centre.

That is faster than air could ever be by the time you have travelled to and from each airport, 2 hours check in etc time, and the flight time.
Booked ahead the fare is 44 €- again cheaper than any flight could be including whatever airport transport you can use and added on fees, the train is every 2 hours and just a way pleasanter travel experience

Not sure why you are trying to minimise train use, but maximise air use and a car you don't need.

Even to Dinkelsbühl there are several easy train/bus combination ways to get there from Nuremberg. The DB website gives you details.

Oh, you gotta do the Excellence Class.

My dream is to do Excellence Class on Christmas Day. Maybe next lifetime!

OK, what is Excellence Class.

It sounds way to expensive for me, but nevertheless curious.

https://glacierexpress.ch/en/excellence-class

Nigel, ts a steal at about $800 a seat.

@badger, In Germany we are going to Fussen, Dinkensbuhl, Rothenburg ob
de Tauber, Nuremberg and Regensburg. In France we are going to
Strassbourg, Riquewihr and Colmar. I understand these towns will be
busy so thought a car would be best so we can stay just outside of
them.

Or you can arrive by train, stay somewhere central and have everything within walking distance. Renting a car in order to stay somewhere outside the place you're actually visiting sounds like a downgrade to me.

My reasoning for getting the plane to Geneva was to reduce the amount
of trains we are going on.

Why? Are you worried that the trip might be a bit too convenient and you want to add a bit of extra faff? As isn31c mentioned, the train is faster and cheaper. I see no reason for flying.

We did Excellence Class in October and loved every second.

When I first saw the price I thought it was ridiculous, but then I realised that we got to avoid the 93 day reservation problems, and were able to book eleven months out. When we factored in how much we would spend on food and wine during the journey anyway, it became much less ridiculous.

As I said we both loved the entire trip, every course was superb, as were the excellent matched Swiss wines.

If you can afford it I highly recommend it, it is much like upgrading to a business class flight, but even nicer.

Zurich to Paris is another journey where the train will always be faster and cheaper than flying, city centre to city centre.

Booked ahead of time you should get that for 49 €, the train takes 4 hours 4 minutes and runs every two hours.

As regards Excellence (or any other class) on the Glacier Express there is a difference to me between being able to afford it and being able to justify the expense. Having travelled widely in Switzerland in my younger days there are better routes to my personal liking. Nor could I ever these days drink that much wine in one meal. One or at a push two glasses is now my limit. In Switzerland I just don't get the need for reservations. I can do the service trains (and bring my own high quality picnic basket if I want, with alcohol) over the same route without fussing over reservations months out. Just turn up and go.

Now offer me a meal on one of the classic Swiss steamers/paddlers on various of the lakes and I would be seriously interested. That is my sort of style.

It's the same way as I am just not interested in the Rocky Mountaineer in Canada (or Utah/Colorado) but would do the highest class on The Canadian/The Ocean again in a heartbeat (a different route I know).
Or in Australia would willingly do Brisbane to Cairns (and onwards and with the intermediate route deviations inland) but am not interested in The Ghan. Route wise the Ghan is fantastic but in it's current guise of a highly priced cruise train totally no thank you.

Or in the UK I would not do the Belmond Pullman if I got a free ticket, but would do TfW Premier Class or the Great Western Pullman without a thought.

Personal tastes.

I will just throw out a proposed itinerary.

Starting in Paris, train to Strasbourg. Stay in the city where the action is.
Train to Colmar and stay in the city. Riquewihr is only a few km away, so you could visit via taxi.
Train to Basel then Bern. You could stop in Basel for a few hours to visit the Christmas Markets.
Train to Spiez and change to the Golden Pass train to Montreux. Some trains will be direct to Montreux (Golden Pass Express), and others you will change trains in Zweisimmen.
Train to Zermatt (yes, you change at Visp).
From Zermatt, you can take the Glacier Express to Chur if you like. Excellence Class is overkill in my book, but 1st class might be nice, given 6 people. Just get your reservations as soon as they open as tour companies often scoop them up. Winter is usually not that busy.
Train from Chur to Germany is straight forward with a few changes and you will be in Fuessen.

If you choose not to do the Glacier Express, easy train connections from Zermatt to Zurich and on to Germany.

Thanks everyone, after your feedback I'm going to look further into just using trains and even changing the itinerary to go on the Bernina express instead. Appreciate your advice.

Not sure if I'm looking in the wrong places but it seems to me like catching the train to some of these towns in Germany takes much longer than driving? I'm more than happy to catch the train but not if it means loosing a lot of time. Eg driving Dinkelsbuhl to Rothenburg ob de Tauber is around 35mins, but a train/Bus in any where from 2-3hrs

Excellence Class? Its right up there with Salzburg for the Summer Music Festival or Italy for the Jubliee. Its an experience avaliable no where else in the world.

The cost? If you spent $3000 for a business class ticket to fly over from the states (8 hours) whats $800 to take an 8 hour train ride with 10x the comfort and luxury and views to boot?

Nothing wrong with getting a rental car once you arrive in Germany.

The Bernina Express is a significant detour from your original itinerary, so it will involve a major rethink as to your alotted time in Switzerland.

Hi Sam, yes I agree it's a total change, but it makes more sense to me. The GE or BE train ride was the only request I was given to add to the itinerary.

Initially I thought the GE was the easier option but after hearing some comments, the BE route sounds prettier and will allow us to add one more country to the itinerary.

Do you still want to go to Zermatt? Glacier Express makes the most sense for that. Or skip Zermatt and go to eastern Switzerland.

I've done the Glacier Express in Winter and enjoyed it thoroughly. I've also done the Bernina Express in Winter, and it is nice too. It just seems to me that you will be taking a train to Tirano, eating a pizza, then turning around and going back the same way. At least if you take the Glacier Express, you are going somewhere, and in the general direction of Germany.

Not sure if I'm looking in the wrong places but it seems to me like
catching the train to some of these towns in Germany takes much longer
than driving?

It depends a lot on which towns you are travelling between. And keep in mind that if you're driving you need to add time to find and pay for parking, which can be tricky in smaller towns during the Christmas markets.

Thank you @badger, yes something to consider.
We are going along the Romantic Road to Fussen, Dinkensbuhl, Rothenburg de ob Tauber, Nuremberg and Regensburg.

@Sam, I've decided to throw Como in, it's been on the bucket list for some time anyway. We will stay in Varenna and then Como for New Years and then on to Milan to get a train back to Paris. Is there still some sort of overnight train from Milan to Paris? I see some tracks are closed till 2026.

I wouldn't bother to stay in Varenna at Christmas. The town virtually closes down in the off-season.

We've been twice in October and it's lovely, but I've had friends go in December and they said it was completely dead, and they had to switch to Como town to find restaurants and so on.

Sadly the overnight Milan to Paris trains are no more following the ending of the Thello service. The day trains (when the line re-opens) are now so fast coupled with budget airlines that the market segment doesn't really exist now.

FS (Trenitalia) are still developing and refining the offering but look out for the FS Treni Turistici Italiani services- Italian State Railways (FS) are running tourist trains with older luxury stock (day and overnight). From everything I have seen on You Tube they are beautiful trains with impeccable service and meals and at least currently a comparatively modest price tag (certainly modest, compared to Excellence Class q.v.).
Each route is an occasional offering (for now) so it would need luck or chance to be on your side.
They have done a few runs to Nice (as a one way offering). If by chance you found one of those to Nice, overnight, then TGV to Paris that would be a great ending, although any of the Italian routes would do.