Day trips versus more hotel changes

There are some who like the drive by approach -- "Yep!!, saw that -- on to the next one." "Once you have seen one cathedral you have seen them all." And others who want a much slower approach who prefer the afternoon at a sidewalk cafe just sitting there and doing nothing. It really is a personal choice and you may have to experience both to decide your preference. We prefer the slow. My wife was never is a rush to do anything and on our first trip in '72 her constant comment was, "We will see that the next time." The next time for us was about 20 years later. Now , of course, it is much more frequent but we still take our time. Very hard to advise you as to the best approach for you.

...probably be our one and only trip to Europe... Why??? At forty you should have lots of trip opportunities. That is the one thought that should probably be scrapped since you really do not know what the future holds and that thought could encourage bad decisions. Enjoy the moment and assume you will be back at some time. We are still traveling at 76 and have four weeks scheduled for this Sep/Oct. The only thing planned is into Amsterdam and home from Budapest. We do have two nights reserved in Amsterdam after that it is the flow.

However, ---- understand we are squeezing in too much without being able to fully appreciate each location --- IF you truly understand that, then why are you doing it? For us, a day trip is never more than two hours out and back with a strong preference for about an hour. If more than that it is a location change. For example -- we would never day trip from Milan to Venice or Rome to Florence. Too much travel time. We do enjoy the trains but for an hour or so buses are tolerable. Maybe you should plan a little of both and see what works best for you. Your proposed schedule will be a blur of train stations.

Hello,
Are you dead set against renting a car? It would probably save you money (one rental fee vs. train tickets for 3); it allows for a lot more flexibility and keeps you from being tied to train schedules, driving in Europe isn't much different from driving in the USA, and you have three people who can share the driving. If you are up for it, check out renting through Auto Europe. We used them for our most recent trip and it was really easy!

Possible itinerary for you: Fly into Geneva and head to Lauterbrunnen for 4 nights. Use one day for Schilthorn, one day for Jungfrau, the third day for a boat cruise on Lake Thun. If you have a car, you could do a loop drive with Castle Chillon on one drive day and Bern on the other drive day. Car gets returned at Geneva. I suppose you could also do this by train, although we have not tried that.

Then fly to either Milan or Venice. See the city, then rent a car and drive to the other one with stops at Lake Como and Verona.

This is a more leisurely pace. for your trip and includes both scenery and cities.

I can't offer much for the Switzerland part, but I would suggest flying into Venice, then head to Milan (you could do Verona by leaving luggage at the train station or nearby). There are a couple of scenic trains or routes into Switzerland. One is the Bernina Express (but a local train does the same route cheaper and more frequently). From Varenna you can train to Triano and then over the Alps to Chur and on to Zurich. Or the Gotthard Panorama Express from Como to Lucerne.
To be honest, I would just pack light using packing cubes and just do point to point. In my opinion, you are wasting as much time trying to fit in day trips than if you were really efficient and moved every day or so....at least for Italy.

I personally prefer setting up base in an area that offers a lot to do and using that base for day trips. Our preferred round trip day trip time is usually up to 2 1/2 hours or so-often much less. We have taken a 2 hour train out for a very long day trip on occasion but find a day like that to be particularly exhausting and I don’t want to feel that way on vacation. You need to be mindful when planning a day trip that, for example, 90 minutes out by train is in reality longer than that. Don’t forget you need to walk to and from the station(s), figure out where to go, possibly miss a connection, stand in line for a bus ticket....

Also, we really enjoy getting to really know the town/area we stay at. After a week, our town starts to feel like home in a strange way.

As for your preliminary itinerary, I would make sure you have at least 5 days in the Berner Oberland area, if not more. I have passed through Zurich often but never had the urge to stay. To my first point, visiting Colmar while basing in Zurich would make for a very long day trip (Colmar). Stay in Colmar instead. We spent a week there in 2017 and didn’t get bored as there is a lot to do, especially adding in closer day trips than Zurich.

I think day trips would be the best way to go.

I for one love traveling on the trains in Europe.

I would also suggest that your group find companies that offer small-group tours to your day trip destinations from your base cities. At least that way, logistics and time management would be in their more experienced hands.

You are right that you need a balance of day trips vs more hotel changes. I base how I plan the trip around how long the day trip will take, and also how 'valuable' it would be to overnight in a place. For your Italy time - I would plan to overnight in Venice and do Verona from there. So probably 3 nights would be a minimum. That would give you 3 evenings, one whole day in Venice and one day for the Verona day trip. Both Verona and Venice are "worth" an overnight but Venice more so as it is terribly crowded with day trippers/cruisers during the day, more pleasant evenings and early mornings. Lake Como can be done as a day trip from Milan and on such a short trip with the other things you want to do I wouldn't give too much time to Milan. I agree with your plan to base in Lucerne and Interlaken for the things you want to see in Switzerland. Zurich can be seen easily from Lucerne (an hour train ride) and the city itself is probably worth a half day or so at best (given the total amount of places you want to see). Not sure about where best to base for Colmar, Lake Constance or even if you actually have time for that.

I love traveling on trains in Europe - so much better than in the US - they go everywhere, are (mostly) on time, inexpensive, etc. But for day trips I almost always limit myself to 2 to 2 and a half hour trips. You are right you can't see everything. For less than three weeks I would do 3-4 nights Venice, 3 Milan (with day trip to Lake Como and another to Bergamo), 3-4 Lucerne, 5 Interlaken. Do you have to go back to Milan to fly out. If not fly out from Zurich or Geneva, add maybe 1-2 more nights to whichever you fly out of.

Frank has pretty much echoed my thoughts on your questions. How much moving around one wants to do really is a personal choice.

Did you hate checking in and out of hotels and changing locations? Or
was it not bad because you were able to see more?

My husband and I are in the "Less is more" camp: The less time we spend packing, unpacking, getting settled and checking in and out, the more time we have to sightsee. Also, with less moving around, the deeper the dive we can do in locations which interest us. I'd rather have time to settle in and really get to know a few fascinating places versus merely skim the surface of many: that's not "seeing more" to me.

We also like the flexibility that longer versus shorter stays in fewer places afford. Raining? We go see indoor attractions. Bright and sunny? We might take a hike, explore outdoor attractions or head off on a day trip (although one that doesn't eat up tons of transport time). You don't have those options if you're moving EVERY day. And what if the one day you allowed for ___ is the day that many of the main attractions are closed? 3 nights is usually our minimum unless it's, say, just to be close to an airport the night before a flight home.

For those that have been to Europe, did you hate traveling on the
trains? Or was it fine because you can move around and there’s
gorgeous scenery?

We LOVE the trains. They free us to watch the scenery - even if is isn't always glorious - instead of the road. We can usually get on one in the middle of a city or town and get dumped off right in the middle of the next: no traffic, restricted driving zones or parking hassles to worry about. They're comfortable and generally get you from point A to B quicker than a car, depending on where you want to go, and we don't have to stress about leaving luggage in an unattended vehicle. Granted, trains don't service EVERY location but they have gotten us to plenty of places we've want to go and will get us to plenty more. Extra bonus? We can have a couple of adult beverages anytime the mood strikes us and hop a train home. (European DWI laws are very strict).

But every traveler is different so it's all about what makes YOU happy.

I haven't done this in Switzerland, but I like to do day trips on the train from London. It feels so free to travel without luggage!

I am the queen of 4-night stays in small cities that have only a few local sights but offer multiple day-trip possibilities--that's how much I hate changing hotels. However, my day-trips are to relatively small places where I feel I can see most of what I want in the time left after I travel back and forth. I would never day-trip to Venice from Milan. That is a truly bad idea; it's at least 4-1/2 hours in train time alone and will dump you into the city at the same time as all the other day-trippers, making it highly likely you'll dislike the place because everywhere you go will be wall-to-wall people. You don't have time to give Venice decent attention on this trip. That's fine. Just skip it and use that day more productively somewhere else.

One better choice for a day-trip from Milan would be Bergamo, an atmospheric town with a medieval center on a hill.

Colmar is 2 hours from Zurich by train. There's also a bit of a walk from the Colmar train station to the part of the town you'd be heading for. Colmar is a lovely place (though very touristy) with a highly worthwhile museum (Google Isenheim Altarpiece) and charming wine villages nearby. That's not a good idea for a day-trip, either.

Zurich is a pleasant but not very distinctive city. Switzerland is expensive in general, but I suspect you will find hotels even costlier in Zurich (the business capital) than in many other Swiss cities. You are at risk of paying extra money for the privilege of staying in an unexciting place.

Most people on the forum recommend Lauterbrunnen or one of the mountain villages (like Muerren) instead of Interlaken as a base for the Berner Oberland.

I'm not sure you're accounting adequately for the time it will take you to move from place to place (whether you change hotels or not). For example, you say you'll have four full days in Milan, but that would require 5 nights in the city. Your arrival day will be a partial one and quite possibly nearly useless due to sleep-deprivation and jetlag. I'm not clear on how many nights you're thinking of spending at you various stops. Three nights is just 2 full days, plus some extra hours.

When people propose to move around a lot because they "want to see as much as possible", my usual response is to point out that doing that means they'll see less, because they'll be spending so much time on trains and buses. I confess that Switzerland, for me, alters that situation a bit. The fact is that Switzerland is gorgeous virtually everywhere, so time spent on trains and buses definitely counts as sightseeing. However, the packing up, checking out, rolling suitcases to the train station, waiting for the train, etc.--that time is pretty much a total loss.

I would not spend four nights in MIlan and day-trip to Venice or Verona from there. Verona isn't too bad ( 1.5 hours each way) but Venice is a 2.5-hour trip each way, so you would be spending 5 hours on a train and be in Venice for 5-6 hours at a time when it is most crowded with day-trippers. Also, MIlan hotels are quite expensive, unless you have points at a chain like Marriott.

If you wish to fly into Milan, I suggest you head straight to Verona or Venice and spend three nights. You can visit the other on a nice daytrip. Then return to MIlan and transfer to the train to Varenna, an hour away. Spend two nights.

Then you can either (1) ( longer but Scenic option) continue into Switzerland by the Bernina Pass route, or (2)( faster option with tunnel time) return to MIlan in time to catch the direct train to Luzern. Three nights make for a nice stay there.

The head to the Berner Overland and stay in Lauterbrunnen with a waterfall view, not Interlaken. It will add 25 minutes of travel time on your Castle day ( Thun) but it is a scenic 25 minutes on the train, and worth it for the better ambiance of Lauterbrunnen.

And consider making Basel your base for visiting Colmar ( it is quick and easy) and Lake Constance. Basel is an attractive city with an interesting oldtown, and some nice hotels right by the train station for convenience.

I like Lola's ideas except for one small detail--Lake Constance is a long way from Basel (2 hours one way to Kontstanz) by train.

I like Lake Constance, but it's a large lake not necessarily suited to flying visits. I'd want to see Lindau, Mainau Island and more. Switzerland has lots of lovely lakes, albeit much smaller ones. I'd skip Lake Constance on this trip unless you're willing to spend at least 2 nights there.

Do NOT stay in Interlaken to visit the Berner Oberland region !!!! NO NO NO !

If there is anything I have learned here, it's that you stay in Lauterbrunnen OR up in the mountains ! We stayed in Murren for 4 nights and it was the highlight of a 4 week trip !

Make that note in your itinerary right now !

I agree they should skip the Bodensee, but I mentioned it as that is on their list to visit from Zurich. If they wish to do so, starting from Basel takes about 50 minutes longer than the trip from Zurich (which is 1.25 hours if they get the direct train).

Basel makes a much better base for Colmar, which I would encourage them to see. The trip from Basel is 46 minutes, versus 2+ hours from Zurich. And there really are nice hotels right close to the SBB station in Basel, at least four from which to choose. The Zurich train station area has one, but the area is not so great.

Plus I just like Basel better. ; )

Hello again—

Thanks so much everyone for the great info. so far!!! I probably should have mentioned originally that my sister and brother-in-law will be using credit card points for their hotels, so that is why I’m thinking fly into Milan and out of Zurich with some time based in each as the bigger cities provide the best hotel options for us.

The trip started out as a trip to Italy and quickly turned into more of a Switzerland trip. My brother-in-law really wants to see Venice, especially since we decided against Rome. So, that’s the reason for the possible extremely long day trip there. We have some time yet to get him to change his mind. :)

I don’t know why I thought Interlaken for a home base. Of course we will look into staying in Lauterbrunnen with the waterfalls. I’m so excited now!!!

We really wanted to spend 1 day (or I should say, part of 1 day in France). I thought Colmar looked like our best option although it will make for a long day. I’ll have to think on this some more.

I greatly appreciate everyone’s thoughts!!!

Please take the advice about the time you actually have to heart. Think in terms of nights, not days. And remember that you need 2 nights in a place to have one day for seeing and experiencing where you are, 3 nights for 2 days, you get the idea.

Your 1st night is not the one on the plane. It's the one you spend at your first lodging in Europe. Your last night of the trip is the one you spend before you fly home. From your initial question, it's hard to tell how many nights you plan to spend in different places on the trip because there are no details after "4 full days based" in Milan. Between 14 and 21 nights will fly by in a blur if you don't slow down a bit and be more selective.

Frankly, I can't imagine the pace indicated by your post, whether you move from place to place or do day trips. I think you need to look at the options you've listed and set priorities. OR add more time to your trip. You need to make room for doing laundry, resting and simply being in some of your locations.

It's not perfect, but Rome2rio can help you get an idea of how long it will take you to get to and between the places you want to go or see using different kinds of transportation.

I'm a fan of trains for all the reasons others have mentioned. I love looking out the window and consider that a significant part of most trips. I hope you're all planning to pack light, especially if you plan to move around a lot by train. Packing light is a whole other topic unto itself.

Also, you need to consider the May weather in the locations you want to visit. There may be a lot more snow and it may be a lot colder in those places than you imagine. We got snowed in at the top of the Grossglockner High Alpine Road in Austria in late June, 2011.

Keeping in mind that the weather info linked deals with averages, for example Luzern weather could be great or dicey. You can explore other locations from the link. It would be a real bummer to base your plans on lots of outdoor sights and be rained or snowed or fogged out of seeing what you want to see.

Trip planning is an iterative process. As you continue to do it, you'll be doing lots of itinerary tweaking for lots of reasons. A change in one thing can unintentionally change something else. When you think everything is set, or while you're on the trip, you will all have to be flexible and have an understanding of what Plan B might look like if your original plans go awry.

You all have a steep learning curve and you're very smart to start the planning early. If you haven't already, you all should thoroughly explore the Travel Tips section of this RS website to start learning about European travel. After living in Germany for 3 years and traveling in Europe a combined total of about an additional 1 1/2 years, I still have times when I realize that I don't know what I don't know.

P.S. I have a sneaking suspicion that this won't be your only trip to Europe.

Which hotel programs are they thinking of? I’ll bet there are options in Venice instead of Milan.

It may be most cost-effective to fly into Milan and out of Zurich, but that doesn’t mean you have to stay in those cities if you really want to see places like Venice, Verona, and Colmar.

Listen to Carla. Don't stay in Interlaken. I'd also skip Bern and the Thun castles to spend more time in the Berner Oberland. If you want to see why, and what to do while there, click on my name and you'll find a link to our dozen favorite trails in the area, with maps and pics.

And YOU, Shoe, were one of the ones who told us what to do and where to stay ! And we listened !

I just sent an OP to your site - he posted under Lucerne to Lauterbrunnen. He may need hiking help.....

It wasn't just Carla who nixed the idea of staying in Interlaken. They need to stay more in the mountains, either in Lauterbrunnen or higher. And it appears they have listened and adjusted their plans.

And you, Lola, helped shape our itinerary last year ! You are so right about not staying in Interlaken !

Lauterbrunnen is more charming than Interlaken and would also work for a base but there are good reasons for basing in Interlaken. There is no predicting the weather in Switzerland and if the mountains are clouded in it won't be a very good experience. On those day there are numerous day trip possibilities from Interlaken - towns on the lake by either train or boat, Bern, even further places in Switzerland. In your initial post you mentioned Lake Geneva, Montreux (Chillon Castle) and Gruyeres which you can do a day trip to from Interlaken. Interlaken and Lauterbrunnen are only about a 20 minute train trip apart but trains don't leave the second you get to the train station so you have to wait for the next train so all in all staying in Lauterbrunnen will add an hour or so to those day trips. Also, while the main street of Interlaken is very touristy (think Hooters), there is a small old town that is almost void of tourists, so it's not that bad a place to stay.

Hello again—

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the great info. and advice.

Sounds like at the very least we should add at least another day or two to Berner Oberland and Lucerne so we won’t be so rushed. We all have plenty of vacation days, so it will come down to cost to determine how many nights we can actually spend. Next, I will start researching hotels. Because my sister and brother-in-law are using credit card points (ihg and spg I think) we have some decent options in 3 of our 4 possible home-bases. I have to add up all the possible transportation costs, activity costs, get an idea of food costs, and sounds like we need money for toilets, etc. :) Not to mention the fact that I have to get a passport and luggage. Yes, we will be the bad travelers with the big suitcases. Another thing we will have to learn for ourselves. :)

And I will rethink some of those longer day trips. But that might be one of those things we have to try for ourselves. And while we are not big hikers, Shoe, we will try to do at least 1 or 2 of your suggested hikes. I had already saved all your great info. from when I came across it searching other posts.

I’m sure I’ll be posting some more questions before May 2020.

Thanks again!!!

There are definitely spg options in Venice; six at least, now that spg has merged with Marriott. These include the very popular Gritti Palace and Hotel Danieli.

I'm late to this, but I see you've gotten a lot of good advice.

One thing I want to emphasize. I fully understand the attraction of using hotel points to get "free" nights, and for some places in Europe, this can work fine. But don't let the tail wag the dog; don't stay in a place you aren't interested in, just to use points. Stay in the place you're interested in, and save your points for a place where they work well. On a shorter visit, time is money; you don't want to be a commuter.

This applies both to the Berner Oberland (stay in Lauterbrunnen, Muerren, Wengen, or Gimmelwald rather than Interlaken) and Lake Como (staying in Varenna, Bellagio, or Menaggio is much better than day tripping in from Milan).

And while that's important for those places, it's absolutely crucial for Venice. Venice gets busier every year, and the cruise ship crowds mean that the middle of the day sees huge crowds in the main tourist areas. If you want to enjoy it, you have to stay a few nights, and get off the beaten path. If you see it as a day trip (even worse as a day trip from somewhere far away like Milan), you'll see it at its worst. If you spend at least one night, you can see it before and after the hoards, and can get to the quiet sections (and yes they do exist - but not if you only have a few hours and are trying to see the famous areas).

As for your comment about bring too-big suitcases, you have plenty of time to refine your packing. Even if you can't get to just taking carry-on bags, you can still pack less in your larger suitcases. For bags, it's not just size that matters, but weight. When I did travel with a 24 inch suitcase, the major problem was that when it was fully loaded, it was heavy for me to lift it into overhead storage on trains. I always tried to take it at least 1/3 empty. Now, I travel with a 21 inch bag (officially 22 inch, but 21.5 when I actually measured it). It's stuffed to the gills, but I can handle it easily.

I'm lucky enough to be able to spend 3-4 weeks in Europe when I go, but I still don't try to cover too much ground. As another reply said, I like to average at least four nights per location. However, the one thing I don't like about day trips is that it can be a special experience to be in a place at night or first thing in the morning, and that's only possible if the travel time is short and (assuming you're not driving) the public transportation options run late.

What a great bunch of info on this topic. I to am planning a 2020 trip and it's confusing so this helps immensely. I have 3 grown children and 2 grandkids. Our thought was to rent a place where we could all stay for 5 nights. Would Lauterbrunnen be a good place to do this? It would be early June.

Lauterbrunnen is good but Mürren even better ( for Village charm, views, playgrounds, and access to hiking and walking paths).

I highly recommend this apartment we shared last August with our adult kids and two grandchildren.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/VacationRentalReview-g188084-d6588573-Chalet_Oberdorf_Murren-Murren_Jungfrau_Region_Bernese_Oberland_Canton_of_Bern.html

It sleeps seven people in three bedrooms, and has two full baths ( one technically not a "full" bath as it has a walk-in shower instead of a tub, but we much prefer the shower). The living/dining/kitchen area is large and bright, with huge windows and a glass door onto the deck. The kitchen is modern and very well-equipped. The owner ( Johnny) is British and very responsive to communication. There is an onsite property manager in case you need anything.