Bernina Express - Chur to Florence in one day

Please look at a Swiss rail map, and you will see that it is not possible to go from Tirano to,Florence without passing through Mllan, unless you want to take a lot of bus transfers. From Tirano, the mountains intervene, and there is only one train route—toward the west and Milan.

https://www.mystsnet.com/en/download/swiss-travel-system-map-en-2023/?wpdmdl=14294&masterkey=63a023c8da36c

Is it possible to go directly from Tirano to Florence without needing to change in Milan?

No, you must change trains at Milano Centrale. The tracks from Milano Centrale to Firenze SMN are special dedicated high speed tracks that allow the fast trains to run at up to 200 mph. The regional trains don't get to run on these tracks.

Milan is like the Atlanta Airport of northern Italy, you can't get anywhere without passing through Milan.

But yes, if you don't mind spending 9 hours on trains, you can get from Chur to Florence in a day.

The full day in Florence likely will be only 1/2 a day because you’ll be too tired to get up before noon!
I took the 7.5 hour Glacier Express from Zermatt to St. Moritz and after 6 hours was ready to abandon 🚂 the train!

haha in principle i think its a bad idea. But i'm pushed for time and I have to make that 2 hour journey to florence anyhow, if not on that day then early next morning. I was thinking just suck it up and get it over and done with.

I'm just worried I'll miss the connections. Heard the trains to milan isn't always on time and if i'm buying cheap tickets ahead of time, I need to make a specific train. My previous train is a seperate train ticket so I don't think i can just board the next train if the previous is late.

If you do not mind spending a lot of time on trains you can do this.

Also do not worry about missed connections. If you miss a train due to a delay on a previous train you can just get the next train. You go to the "Frecciadesk" (A small info kiosk at the head of the tracks in Milano) and have your ticket exchanged for the next one.

You can book Tirano - Firenze on www.trenitalia.com

If you do not mind spending a lot of time on trains you can do this.
Also do not worry about missed connections. If you miss a train due to a delay on a previous train you can just get the next train. You go to the "Frecciadesk" (A small info kiosk at the head of the tracks in Milano) and have your ticket exchanged for the next one.
You can book Tirano - Firenze on www.trenitalia.com

Well either way i still need to get to Florence so that time on the train will need to be spent. Just whether I do it all at once or not :D

So in switzerland if there is a missed connection, you just get on the next train without needing to do anything but in Italy you need to exchange the ticket?

That is pretty much correct. Like Wengen K said, buy a ticket from Tirano to Florence, and then you are protected. Just remember that you walk across the piazza in Tirano to the Nord station for the train to Milan.

That is pretty much correct. Like Wengen K said, buy a ticket from Tirano to Florence, and then you are protected. Just remember that you walk across the piazza in Tirano to the Nord station for the train to Milan.

@Sam do i have to buy Tirano to Florence in one go to be protected. I can't get Tirano - Milan and a seperate ticket for Milan to Florence? I read that you buy the Tirano - Milan at Tirano station on the day so I was planning to do that.

How likely will the bernina express be late into Tirano? It arrives 12:49 and I had a look at trenitalia and the train leaving to milan is at 13:08. The next one is 2 hours later.

It is actually not necessary to have it on one ticket to be protected. If you book Tirano - Firenze on trenitalia you will get two tickets anyway, one for the regional train (operated by Trenord) the other for the Trenitalia HST.

What you have to know is this: Railways act as agents for each other. I could now go to the railways station in Wengen and ask for a ticket Chur- Tirano - Milano - Firenze, and I would get one. It would probably come as three pieces of paper though.
The same when you book this on line. Booking Tirano - Firenze in one purchase is just something you do for convenience. You will get two tickets.

And in spite of being on separate tickets the connections are protected. This as long as you take the MCT for the station where you transfer in to account when planning.

So the connection in Tirano is actually going to be protected as well.

This as long as you take the MCT for the station where you transfer in to account when planning.

translated into English for those not in the know - MCT = Minimum Connection Time = the minimum time allowable for a legal connection.

Thanks guys that was very helpful.

@Nigel very thoughtful of you :) Thanks.

And to find out what the MCT is for a station just use an on line trip planner. They all take that in to account. For Milano Centrale the MCT is. 15 minutes if I am not mistaken.

And it looks like you will have 30 minutes at Milano Centrale. Swiss trains are famous for their punctuality. Exogenous events can happen, however. I would suggest that if you want the 8:28 Bernina Express, you purchase seat reservations now if your travel date is solid. They do get booked up in the summer. Sorry, I can't recall your travel date.
https://tickets.rhb.ch/en/pages/bernina-express

however. I would suggest that if you want the 8:28 Bernina Express, you purchase seat reservations now if your travel date is solid. They do get booked up in the summer.

Already have my seat reservation, just haven’t brought my ticket yet lol.

Just out of curiosity, as a local, how far in advance do you buy your tickets? I feel like I’m going overboard buying things 4 months in advance :D

Swiss tickets can be bought up to 5 minutes in advance, maybe sooner. Except for the trains requiring seat reservations, they never sell out. And buying far in advance does not guarantee a seat over someone who bought their ticket 5 minutes before departure. It all depends on when and where you board. On IC trains you can buy seat reservations for 5 CHF each, but in principal, trains are so frequent it is usually not an issue. I rode a few trains a while ago where it seemed I was the only one in the carriage.

Also the Golden Pass route from Montreux to Luzern offers seat reservations, and they are often recommended in the summer when the tourists flock to ride this scenic route, but they are not required.

Swiss tickets can be bought up to 5 minutes in advance, maybe sooner. Except for the trains requiring seat reservations, they never sell out.

Yes but the prices differ significantly . I ticket in advance is like 30% of the cost of a ticket you brought 5 mins before departure. Maybe locals have some discount card that makes the prices much cheaper so buying in advance or not makes no difference? Could that be?

Those are Super Saver Tickets, which requires you to follow the exact itinerary on the tickets. Given a choice, I'd go with a Saver Day Pass. But even those must be purchased far in advance for a specific date to be cost effective. But they are like a 1-day Swiss Travel Pass with unlimited travel for the day.

Just out of curiosity, as a local, how far in advance do you buy your
tickets?

Usually just when I am at the station (2-3 minutes before departure) with my phone.
But if I know in advance when I will travel I do get supersaver tickets. Eg. in combination with a NightJet ticket I booked, or a flight. In those cases my trip is set, and I take advantage of that buying a cheap supersaver.

As a local I of course have the Half Fare Card.

OK WengenK, here's the trick question. If every local has a discount card, and most visitors have a discount card, why isn't that just the listed ticket price? Seems like a game to me.

OK WengenK, here's the trick question. If every local has a discount card, and most visitors have a discount card, why isn't that just the listed ticket price? Seems like a game to me.

Bingo! But not all tourists have a discount card. For example, in my upcoming trip, I've done the maths and buying a half fare card works out about 80 CHF more expensive for the trips I'm doing so doesn't make sense to get one. So unfortunately I'm stuck with the inflexible discounted tickets if I don't want to pay full fare. And hence here is me stressing getting tickets so far in advance :D.

ah, but it is. When you go onto SBB,CH/EN and put in a route you will see that it says "from..." and when you look at the details the Half Price Card is selected automatically. If you want the price without one you select Full Price and the amount shown doubles.

The default for many years has been to assume Half Fare Card.

OK WengenK, here's the trick question. If every local has a discount
card, and most visitors have a discount card, why isn't that just the
listed ticket price? Seems like a game to me.

I wonder about that myself too sometimes.

I know for example that the reason a ticket to the Jungfraujoch is over 200 is that they actually need to earn about 100,- per passenger to break even, and most of their passengers have a reduction card, so they charge over 200.

That is why I think we should indeed just abolish the HFC, and halve the price. But changing things is difficult. Especially in Switzerland where these things move slowly. The HFC is not free, so abolishing it would mean less revenue, and there are still a few people that pay full price, and that would be lost too.

I find it hard to believe based on your other posts that a half fare card wouldn’t work in your favor. The savings you get in the Berner Oberland pass + all the other intense amount of moving around you’re doing leads me to believe you possibly did the math incorrectly.

The discount for the BO Pass is not as good for 2024 as it has been in the past.

But even buying SuperSaver tickets, the price is lower with the HFC.

For tourists, finding the optimal ticket strategy is often an MBA excersize.

For a 4 day BO pass, the discount with the half fare card is 84 chf. The half fare card is 120 chf. I find it hard to believe that in all the traveling between the airport, BO, Chur, Tirano, etc. that you wouldn't come up with 36 chf more of savings. I can't fathom a scenario where that wasn't the case. It leads me to believe that some math was done incorrectly at some point. I agree that it's super complicated and can easily be miscalculated, so may want to re-check your numbers. Do you understand that the prices shown on SBB.ch default to half fare card pricing and have to be doubled in order to get the correct price?

OP bought SuperSaver tickets at a discount. SS tickets are about 30% less with the HFC, but we learn as we travel more. I made a ton of mistakes as I started traveling. That is how you learn, as well as keeping your ears open on this forum.

It leads me to believe that some math was done incorrectly at some point. I agree that it's super complicated and can easily be miscalculated, so may want to re-check your numbers.

@wanderweg, I'm happy to be wrong. Would you kindly have a look and see whether I have miscalculated.

This is my itinerary. I will be coming in via train the day before. This journey I haven't included as its a german ticket and HFC does not apply. I do not need connections to and from airport, all done via train.

Day 1,2,3 - Berner Oberland
Day 4 - BO in morning then head to Chur

Day 5- Bernina express

Full Price Option

1. BO Pass 3 days - CHF240
2. Saver Day Pass for 4th day to Chur - CHF52
3. Bernina Express First Class - EUR58/CHF55 using seat61 ticket hack

Total = CHF347

Half Fare Card Option

1. HF Card - CHF120
2. BO Pass 3 days reduced - CHF168
3. Saver Day Pass reduced for 4th day to Chur - CHF39
4. Saver Day Pass reduced for Bernina Express First Class - CHF59

Total = CHF386

Based on above I'm still CHF39 better off. Did i miss something?

The ticket from Germany you have selected does not include a discount on the the train from Zurich, where the Munich reduced-fare ticket ends, to Luzern where the BO Pass takes over. HFC will give you that.

Also, are assuming the Seat 61 guy’s hack will work. Are you sure about that?

And, if you are going to ride up to the Jungfraujoch, the HFC will give you a better discount on that than the BO Pass will alone.

And maybe there is more I havent’ found.

The ticket from Germany you have selected does not include a discount on the the train from Zurich, where the Munich reduced-fare ticket ends, to Luzern where the BO Pass takes over. HFC will give you that.

That leg was only a few euros more at full price i think about 8 Euros. I think its acutally a super saver fare already. It wasn't expensive so doesn't change much.

And, if you are going to ride up to the Jungfraujoch, the HFC will give you a better discount on that than the BO Pass will alone.

Not doing Jungfraujoch, so i don't save anything there.

The HFC kicks in on Munich to Luzern in St. Margrethen on the Munich-Zurich train when you cross the Swiss border. Did you calculate from there? You’re not doing any activities in Luzern?

The HFC kicks in on Munich to Luzern in St. Margrethen on the Munich-Zurich train when you cross the Swiss border. Did you calculate from there? You’re not doing any activities in Luzern?

No, I didn’t include this ticket. I already brought it. Can’t back track this one. I brought the whole journey in a single transaction and was of the impression I couldn’t use the HFC because the ticket was purchased on the German site. It doesn’t matter, this leg was relatively inexpensive for the whole trip. Even if I brought the HFC, it wouldn’t have made much of a difference.

No time unfortunately so lucerne is just a transit stop. I have been there previously so we decided to skip this and spend the time in BO instead.

Ok, it sounds like it is what it is at this point then since you’ve already bought tickets For future reference, the HFC almost always works in your favor. Side note, but I’m assuming you realize that going Munich to Wengen via Luzern adds an additional 1.5 hours to your trip. Going via Bern would give you more time for your packed schedule.

Ah okay thanks. Going to chur via Bern on the way back. In hindsight, could have also started from Bern too.