I have long thought that "touristy" is not always bad - and there's a certain snobbiness to saying, oh we went to this place and we were the only foreigners, because all the tourist riffraff were at the well-known places and we were with locals. I mean - a boat trip on the Seine is touristy, and for a reason. It's fun, and a good way to see Paris while enjoying a boat ride.
Anyway, I have been to the famed Botin's restaurant numerous times (first time in 1984). Always loved it, always had a great meal that is surprisingly reasonably priced considering the venue. I was always baffled by Rick's assessment that it is "grotesquely" touristy and that Hemingway would not dine there now (as he did back when). Every time I went (late - for dinner), it was almost all Spanish diners, and I loved that we were never rushed out. Once, I was there with my husband (native Spanish speaker) and he noted to our waiter that the people at the table next to us had left, and left a half bottle of a really good wine. Joking that - who would do that?
The waiter laughed, agreed, then picked up the bottle and looked at it. He then handed us the half-full bottle to finish. Can't imagine a US waiter doing that.
However, on our recent trip (just got back) we could only get an early (1pm) lunch reservation. Yes, this was indeed the tourist crowd. The restaurant opens at 1, so everyone was lined up outside waiting to get in. They were remarkably quick in seating us, but yep, it did have a touristy feel, with pretty much everyone getting the roast suckling pig, and some leaving after a criminally-short hour.
Our meal was still great (and my husband's three-shot glass of a very nice Spanish brandy was 10 Euros - would easily be $50 here for that amount). But truly -a VERY different experience for early lunch than for, say, a 9 or 10pm dinner. I'd highly recommend a visit here AT THAT TIME.
Posted by
new york
1508 posts
What a good post!
I'm one of those who would always caution people away from BOTIN and tell them, instead, to go to CASA LUCIO instead.
I ate at BOTIN about 40 years ago, on my first trip to Europe while in high school, and my friend and I were seated with the owner and his friends, who treated us to dinner. How could I top that? But more and more, I'm getting a desire to go back there...who really cares if you are seated among tourists if the food is great?
I think it's still one of the best restaurants to eat roast meats in Madrid...thanks for the thoughtful post...I think there's a big difference between restaurants that attract lots of tourists because they are good, or insitutiitions, such as BOTIN, and restaurant that attract tourists because some Instagrammer posted about them....
: JOSE MARIA, in Segovia, is another great restaurant that draws lots of tourists....and we love to eat there. ETXEBARRI was filled with tourists when we had lunch there about 15 years ago..... ELKANO, same. Both of our lunches at those restaurant were astonishingly great.
I'm trying to think of others, across Spain, but drawing a blank right now...which others would you think are in that category?
Nowadays with all the online info, any great restaurant is going to draw tourists....and unless you her the language they are speaking, you might now know fi the tourists are from Spain or from the US.....
Posted by
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
5789 posts
Your post reminds me of the attitude by some to Parrucchiano restaurant in Sorrento, Italy. I'm not sure if it's in the RS book but it gets plenty of mention on this Forum. Some like me loved it, others complained it was full of tourists. While we visited I'm sure there were tourists, but there was also a lot of locals including the tables next to us which consisted of several generations of a local family celebrating a 50th anniversary. Obviously it's a worthy place for locals as well.
Posted by
9957 posts
We are in our late 70s and when in Spain, we go against the grain wishing to eat our evening meal at 6PM, instead a 10PM.
We have found that many of the highly rated restaurants are not open in Spain until late, like 10PM.
So, we have always found good places to eat, but sometimes we just go to a Tapas place and eat Tapas for our evening meal.
We still see locals there dining as well, as well as tourists. No problem.
Posted by
Used to be Steilacoom, now it’s Las Vegas
2547 posts
Two years ago we did the BOTIN Experience which was a tour before lunch. I think there were maybe 6-8 of us, which was a good thing because the areas they take you to underground are pretty tight. However, hearing the history of the place (why it holds the Guinness title of oldest restaurant in the world, how it managed to function during the Spanish Civil War and Covid) and seeing the underground areas helped us appreciate what this restaurant means to Madrid. When we booked lunch was included and we were already seated when the restaurant opened - wow, lots of tour groups. We really enjoyed the food.
Posted by
OP
6 posts
Thanks for the recommendations! My husband and I are in the process of semi-moving to Spain (of course limited to 180 days a year) until we can get a residence permit. So we will try those!
But a great example of a once-fun place just ruined by tourist interest is Cafe de Flore in Paris. Absurdly overpriced, crowded, feels like a Disneyland ride of a French cafe. Long lines of tour groups waiting to be seated Just awful, and there's no upside.
Now, I admit that I always wondered about Maxim's. One thing I do sometimes - if I just want to see what it looks like inside - is to go to the bar. Unfortunately, I found that you need a reservation for the bar there! So I dropped it. We'd gone to Paris for my birthday (early December, so no crowds) and my husband surprised me with dinner at Maxim's. First: the bar was filled with French Kardashian wannabes, so glad we didn't go there! Second, yep, some tourists were taking photos of each other at their tables (I hate that - enjoy your meal and the company!). And three, it really was not insanely expensive, considering.
Now I don't need to go again. But I did enjoy sitting in there, absorbing the history of the place. The food was really good and the service was excellent Once was enough (The Inn at Little Washington is not far from where I live - also went there ONCE And it was far more expensive than Maxim's, FWIW).
Oh, another thing - when I went to Spain on earlier trips, I always avoided La Torre de Oro on the Plaza Mayor - it looked like a place meant to draw only tourists, with all the bullfighting stuff. And it's on the Plaza Mayor. But when we saw Rick had recommended it, we went a few years ago. We love that place, ended up having a drink there almost daily. The guy behind the bar got to know us, brought us extra tapas, etc. Not at all expensive. So I learned that even places in touristy areas can be great (thanks, Rick!)
If a place has history, it can be worth going to for that. But places where people are trying to pretend Sartre is at the next table... nah.
Posted by
new york
1508 posts
Please can you share with us where you are moving to in Spain? I am so interested in reading about people who've the nerve to do just that!!! I'll never make the actual move, but I do spend more and more time in Spain every year.....and those times are always the best months my entire year! I just spent a magical month (March) there, and plan to return in September!!
I imagine that if you must eat dinner at 6pm in Spain, your options are severely limited, and you will not be able to enjoy any of the "best" or even the "very good" restaurants.....I don't even know of any bars that serve tapas at that hour, when many people are just lingering at the tables after lunch!
I find it difficult to book a table at 8pm in Madrid; the places I want to try do not open until at least, 8:30 and, more often, 9pm, and even when I book for 9pm, I'm often one of the only diners in a restaurant. But eating in a fairly empty restaurant does have its advantages, as the servers don't have to tend to too many tables, and have more time to chat about the menu options.
Posted by
OP
6 posts
Sure! We are going to Madrid - we love it there, I like the museums and opera house. I know a lot of ex-pats (American and British) have gone to Málaga, but we're not beach town folks. And honestly - I need to be in a place where if I have to get on a plane quickly to attend to a family issue back in the States, I can.
I almost never have a dinner-dinner in Spain - I get tapas (Cava Baja is my favorite tapas strip, though Calle de Jesus is great as well).
When I do go for a more regular dinner, it's 8:30 at the earliest (which honestly is when I eat here in the States). But then, in Spain, I'm having lunch at what would be considered a late hour here (like, 3pm).
When in Rome!