Toledo vs Granada - first time in Spain

Things change, like slow trains being replaced by fast trains, so this information may or may not apply, but way back in 2002, we had a southern Spain trip, and included both Granada and Sevilla. We made it to other destinations as well, but had 3 weeks.

The Alhambra is truly one of the marvels in the world, and it remains one of the most memorable places I’ve ever seen. It sounds like things have gotten more popular now, with entry tickets more in demand than before, and having to maybe book tickets well in advance. That may be more complicated than 17 years ago, but if you don’t go now, it’ll be more popular in the future. November will hopefully be much less crowded than the popular summer months.

Since you’re just using Madrid as an arrival/connection place, it may not matter for you, but our subsequent Spain trip in November 2013 started in Madrid and went north and east, seeing places in northern Spain. We did take day trips out of Madrid including Toledo (really nice, but for a first time, must-see trip, Granada gets my vote). Northern Spain in November was cool, so a jacket and scarf were part of the daily wardrobe. Some days were sunnier and a bit warmer than others. Sevilla was absolutely hot in June 2002, but will be somewhat cooler in November 2019, I would bet.

So this may not be absolutely everybody’s pick, but we used one trip for more southern Spanish locations, and saved Madrid and Toledo for a more northerly trip later on.

If you go to Granada, be sure to go to an Arab hammam bath, for a soak and maybe also a massage. The baths in the Alhambra will have a fuller significance if you’ve had your own multi-temperature bath experience in town.

I like the new plan better. There's a reason the Alhambra is the top sight in Spain and always sold out. It's worth sacrificing a day in Sevilla, and I would definitely skip Toledo for Granada.

Train schedules don't change much. Right now there are only 3 direct trains a day from Madrid to Granada:
1. at 7.35 am (do you want to get up that early?),
2. at 2.35 pm (with about 1/2 day in Madrid and dinner in Granada)
3. at 7.35 pm train which gives you a full (presumably unwanted) day in Madrid.

If none of those works for you, you could take a morning train to Cordoba, store your bags in the bus station opposite the train station and spend a few hours there (the Mezquita is the 2nd best sight in Andalucia), and then an afternoon train to Granada. There are frequent trains to Cordoba in the morning, that take less than 2 hours. Then take the 4.20 pm train (1.5 hours) to Granada and have the evening there.

The only morning train from Granada to Sevilla is at 7.10 am. The next one is at 3.35 pm. Look into taking the bus instead so you have more time there.

The Alhambra is a must-see and I liked Toledo better than Sevilla.

If you were attracted to Granada in the first place anyway, go there, you could even spend the whole time there and really get a feel of the place, just one day in Seville means you are going to want to go back there anyway....., Just a thought....

It appears that Madrid has little appeal, so leave in the morning to give you more time in Granada that day.
They haven't released the November tickets to book for Alhambra yet, but check regularly until booked.
Consider an early morning entry to Nazrid Palace, and if you see enoughnof town the day before, you could catch the afternoon train the Sevilla to get a bit more time there.
Alhambra has large luggage lockers so you could get a taxi straight from there to the train station.
Something else to consider is 'where are you Monday'? Monday museum/site closures may influence your activities. Alhambra isn't closed Monday, but it might mean shifting when you see it in order to see other sites in Granada.
Would you share your exact dates so we may suggest some gems for you on specific days?

I love both Granada and Toledo. The Alhambra is stunning so I certainly think there's nothing wrong with this change, though it does mean more of your non-jetlagged time is going to be spent on trains.

A plus for Granada is that the November weather is more likely to be pleasant there.

You don't have nearly enough time for a comprehensive visit to the major cities of Andalucia, so you have a choice to make between a once-over-lightly of all three (or just Seville and Granada) or spending enough time in Granada (the most isolated city you are considering) that you can see all its top sights so you may not feel you have to trek back there on your next trip to. Spain. For me, a reasonably complete visit to Granada needs about 2 full days (not just 2 nights).

We visited all of these places in May and we would choose Granada over Toledo without question. Granada was our favorite of the "cities" that we visited. I think you can do the main parts of Granada in the time you have, unless you really expect to spend your entire day at The Alhambra. You'll have almost 1/2 day the first day you arrive and then potentially a 1/2 day before/after The Alhambra (we were in there for three hours, which is a long time for us, but I know many will spend even more time there). I think you'll feel more time crunched in Seville with the same amount of time to visit in each city.

I have been to Toledo, Sevilla, Granada, and Madrid multiple times, and I love Granada the most. If it were me, I would do:

Arrival: transport directly to Toledo
Day 2: take later train to Granada
Day 3: Granada
Day 4: Granada
Day 5: train or bus to Sevilla
Day 6: fly to Paris

Toledo is a great first stop to get over jet lag because it is close to Madrid, small, easy to navigate (it’s a walled city; you can to go too far wrong). Take a later train to Granada so you can wander Toledo a little in the morning.

Then grab the train to Granada and spend as much time as you can there before heading to Sevilla to catch your flight.

I’m pretty biased in that I really don’t love Toledo, and Granada is my favorite place in Spain and possibly Europe (Seville is wonderful as well, would be high on a list).

Toledo has some great sights, that’s true. But the atmosphere of the city is lacking IMO. So many people day trip that it empties out at night. And not a pleasant quietness, to me - its more of a deadness, not the cafe and paseo scene I love in the rest of Spain. I was there in May a couple years ago. I’d bet it’s even quieter in November! It’s a good day trip though.

Granada is full of life, vitality, a very atmospheric place. Obviously the Alhambra is a must see, but Granada is also just a great place to be. It’s got a bit of a hippie/bohemian edge that some people don’t like (not about safety, just personality), but that’s part of the whole vibe of the city. Also, mountain views!

I agree with Mira. What she said. Go to Granada!!

No contest, Granada!

I agree that Granada ranks far ahead of Toledo. But I would not spend six hours on the train for a day in Granada. The fact that you are combining Spain and France, and have tentative itineraries with so much travel time makes it clear that this is your preferred style of travel. So you should certainly change to the Granada itinerary. I would observe that Granada has a busy airport. We flew out of Granada, but I forget to where. We had driven there from Seville, sleeping three nights in Ronda, on a long trip to Spain only.

I happen to like Madrid very much. Spain is enough different from the U.S. that going to Toledo is not absolutely necessary. It's not a small, undiscovered village, after all. We took an organized bus daytrip from Madrid to Toledo, to avoid renting a car on that trip. I'll bet there are half-day trips to Toledo as well. I forget if our trip

Thank you all so much for your advice! I’m now looking at this as the plan:

Day 1 Thurs) Arrive Madrid around 5:30 pm, taxi to hotel in city center (TBD).
Day 2 Fri) maybe sleep in a little after 26 hours of travel on day 1! Wander around Madrid in the morning, have lunch, take the 2:35 train arriving in Granada at 5:52 pm. Taxi to apartment in Albaycin. Bus to Plaza Nueva to explore & have dinner.
Day 3 Sat) Alhambra & gardens. Tickets are not on sale yet. Explore Albayzin area. Sunset at San Nicholas viewpoint. Dinner With a view oh Alhambra.
Day 4 Sun) Rick’s self guided Walking tour of Grenada. Maybe go to a hammam. Maybe go to a cave Flamenco performance.
Day 5 Mon). Bus to Sevilla, checking in to hotel (TBD) around 2:00. Explore town.
Day 6) flight leaves around 11:30 for Paris

This is more travel than I’d really like, but it seems worth it to see what really appeals to me. (My family is easy going - they just don’t like art museums!)

Not sure I like the "spend the morning in Madrid" plan, you won't see much in a few jetlagged hours. Would you consider flying from Madrid to Granada on arrival? It is cheap, and there is a flight leaving Madrid at 8.45 pm on Thursdays in November: this leaves enough connection buffer, and gets you to Granada on the very first day. More tiring (I realize you'll break the thirty hour of travels mark!) , but at least you'll be where you want to be.