Tentative itinerary for Sept travel to Portugal and Spain

You are really trying to do way too much in the time you have. You are allowing only one full, non-jetlagged day in Lisbon by the time you take the side trip to Sintra, and you'll have no more than 1-1/2 days in Seville.

Although I like Ronda, Cordoba has a lot more of interest to the typical traveler. I'd drop Ronda for sure to allow time in (edited > Cordoba < edited). Alternatively, you could rent a car for the trip from Seville to Granada and make a brief stop in Ronda on the way if you absolutely have to see it.

The best thing you can do is drop the Algarve and distribute those 3 nights to other places. The Algarve is really not all that special, and you need more time for Lisbon, Seville and Cordoba.

What kind of travelers are you? Do you prefer slow travel? or fast travel? Do you like to have time for seeing the sites but also for walking and exploring and lingering over drinks at a cafe? And enjoying the ambiance.

You do not have enough nights in Lisbon. If you are arriving from North America, you will have jet lag the day you arrive. If you go to Sintra for a day (which is lovely) you essentially have 1.5 days in Lisbon, which is not nearly enough. Lisbon has some wonderful sites and is a very interesting city for walking and exploring. There are great things to see in Belem, too, such as the Monastery, Discoveries Monument, Belem Tower and Coach Museum. For comparison purposes, we spent 5 nights in Lisbon, including a day trip to Sintra, and I wish we had an extra night.

Have not visited the Algarve so can't comment.

Two nights in Seville is not nearly enough. We spent 4 nights there and wished we had an extra night. There are many important historical and cultural sites in Seville. It is also a beautiful city for wandering with lovely plazas, fountains, parks, neighborhoods, etc. I would omit Ronda and spend that night in Seville.

Instead of 3 nights in Granada, I would spend 2 nights in Granada and 1 night in Cordoba. It would be a shame to go to Andalusia and miss Cordoba. The Mezquita is amazing, but Cordoba has other interesting and important sites, too. And Cordoba's charm is in the evening when the daytrippers have left and the city is illuminated.

If you want to see Toledo as a day trip from Madrid, then definitely spend 4 nights in Madrid. Do you like art? Madrid has some outstanding art museums, the Royal Palace, Retiro Park, and other sites. Some people don't care for Madrid, but we really enjoyed it.

So a possible itinerary could be:

Lisbon - 4 nights
Algarve - 3 nights
Seville - 3 nights
Granada - 2 nights
Cordoba - 1 night
Madrid - 4 nights
For a total of 17 nights on the ground.

I am seeing 14 nights and six destinations, way too much time being spent in transport. Step back and ask, "Do you want a journey focused upon SEEING destinations of BEING in destinations?". For us a great journey is filled with memories of being in the destinations.

Consider:

Four nights in Lisbon with a day trip of your choice
Four nights in Seville with a day trip to Cordoba
Two nights in Toledo
Three nights in Madrid

Travel stress and expense is reduced with greatly increased opportunity to experience the destinations.

If you omit Algarve from your itinerary as acraven suggests, you can fly via TAP Airlines from Lisbon to Seville.

I can see how this was overly ambitious. Now I am wondering if it is best to omit Portugal altogether and spend all the time in Spain. Maybe add Costa Del Sol? How is it there? Any suggestions appreciated. I have already been to Barcelona.

Renee, If you're thinking of focusing on Spain, 17-18 nights would let you explore Andalucia and Madrid & surrounds, and with a leisurely pace and deeper read. Could probably fit one more area into that.

Costa del Sol has its assets, but it's best known for sunburnt Brits, some Germans, and, before last week, Russians. If beach-going is a goal, I imagine there are more interesting options in Andalucia.

Either eliminating Algarve or eliminating Portugal would work out the kinks.
I have never heard anything appealing about the Costa del Sol, but the beaches to the southeast of Cadiz were pretty. Adding nights to the Ronda area would also be nice if you are looking for a nature respite and not necessarily coastal.

I think focusing on Spain is a great idea. Portugal is certainly worth a trip of its own, and the ground-transportation links between the two countries are limited and infrequent.

What attracts you to the Algarve and Costa del Sol? Perhaps someone can suggest an alternative that will please you.

The attraction would be the beautiful beaches the algarve in particular. I really do not know much about the Costa del Sol. but would love to hear from anyone who has been there.

See https://www.andalucia.com/costa-de-la-luz/cadizprov.htm for more info on the stretch of coast I mentioned.

I agree that skipping Portugal on this trip is a good idea. I'd also skip the beaches. For the amount of time you have, Madrid, Toledo (as a day trip from Madrid), Granada, Seville, and Cordoba would be about as ambitious as I'd recommend. Spain is a relatively big country and travel between the different regions uses up a lot of time. I'd suggest more time in Seville and Cordoba than in Granada. If you are interested in history, you might want to spend a half day at Medina Azahara. Now a huge archaeological site, it was the palace/city of the 10th century Caliphate of Cordoba.

One more reason to spend all your time in Spain is that Portugal is also a great place and deserves at least 10 days - my visit (without the Algarve) was more than 3 weeks and I skipped some places.

I've been to Andalucia 3 times for 2-3 weeks each and there's always more to discover.

If you omit Portugal from this trip, then I strongly recommend spending a night or two in Toledo instead of seeing Toledo as a daytrip. Toledo is an important historical city with many interesting sites, such as the cathedral, museums, churches, etc. It is very, very crowded during the day with tour buses. The evening is magical when the tour buses have left and the city is illuminated. We spent 1 night in Toledo and could have used a second night. If we visited Toledo as a day trip, I think my reaction would have been "what's the fuss all about?"

In my previous post I didn't suggest overnighting in Toledo because you really didn't have the time since you were including Portugal. But without Portugal, I really think you will enjoy Toledo more if you spend a night or two there.

By the way, we also enjoyed Malaga, located on the Mediterranean, very much. I think it's an under-rated city. There is lots to see and do there. Rick Steves does not do Malaga justice. He spends one page on Malaga and treats it primarily as a transportation hub. Malaga is a lot more than that. If you want some coastal ambience, I would recommend Malaga. I haven't been anywhere else on the coast. I have read many nice things and have seen lovely photos of Cadiz. Not sure if you have the time to include Malaga or Cadiz though.

Renting a car in one country and dropping it off in a different one is costly. Traveling from the Algarve to Spain is time consuming by public transportaiton so skip the Algarve. Here’s what I suggest:
Arrive in Lisbon – 4 nights and include a direct train to Èvora for the day (1h 45m). Fly from Lisbon to Sevilla.

New itinerary possibility. My husband really wants some beaches in this trip and the Algarve looks way more interesting to us than Costa del Sol. What does everyone think of this. These are the spots we would like to see - the number of days in each may change.

Fly into Faro, Portugal and spend 4 nights in the Algarve
Morning bus to Seville - stay 3 nights
Ronda - 1 night
Granada - 2 nights
Cordoba - 2 nights
Toledo - 1 night
Madrid - 4 nights and fly home from Madrid
We would book our transportation in the mornings so we will have a good portion of the day in the new location. Possibly some of the one night stays could be day trips but I am hearing that the evenings in these cities are worth it.

Fly into Faro, Portugal and spend 4 nights in the Algarve Morning bus
to Seville - stay 3 nights Ronda - 1 night Granada - 2 nights Cordoba
- 2 nights Toledo - 1 night Madrid - 4 nights and fly home from Madrid

I think it is still the case that you have to transit through Madrid to go to Toledo, so that is one I would consider doing as a day trip.
That 1-2-2-1 stretch would do me in, but we all like to travel at a different pace.
When I visited Andalucia the first time, I skipped Granada. I'll get there one day. The next visit, I went to Ronda a second time, so I clearly developed a fondness for it (and hiking in the area). I just think something has to give, but again, plenty of people enjoy itineraries like this. I'd be sad about having the four-day relaxing stretch at the beginning for the rest of the trip!

I agree with valadelphia about making Toledo a day trip from Madrid. I also suggest visiting Cordoba as a day trip from Sevilla that’s a direct train ride away (45-minutes).

I love Cordoba and Toledo and highly recommend overnight stays. I would skip Ronda. Using rome2rio.com to get travel times, it's 2hours by bus from Sevilla to Ronda and close to 3 hours by train to Granada (add another hour to each for door-to-door times. You'll have barely 2.5 days in Sevilla. Check the bus and train schedules. I see the only trains from Ronda to Granada are at 8 am and 7 pm. That would mean you'll have less than a day in Ronda or you'll get to Granada at 10pm. Ronda is nice enough but with the limited amount of time you have in Spain, it's not worth the extra travel and packing/unpacking time.

Unless you are great fans of European painting, you don't need 3 full days in Madrid. You can use the "Ronda" night for 3N in Granada, then add 1 Madrid night to Sevilla or Cordoba or Toledo.

I suggest that you skip one country and only do one.

We have visited Spain several times and Portugal twice, spending a total of 6-7 weeks.

Your itinerary involves too much travel, the more you travel, the more time you waste and spend more $$$.

Tips, the Sintra day trip is good, but it will eat up most of the day and that only leaves you two days in Lisbon, not enough.

Why the Algarve, frankly, unless you like beaches (Beaches in Florida or the Caribbean are much better than in Portugal), consider visiting north of Lisbon. There is a lot to see on your way to Porto. Also, Porto and the Douro River Valley is amazing.

2 nights in Seville is sad, this is one of my favorite cities in Spain. Need more time, at least three days.

Granada is special, especially the Alhambra, but two nights is enough.

If you like art, the Prado is special in Madrid. Also, do day trips, Toledo and Segovia.

Stick to one country and you can come back and do the other later. You can visit Evora, Porto, Cordoba, Barcelona and more.

I'd argue that three days in Madrid is barely sufficient to do the top sights as a checklist. If OP's interests extend observing and/or connecting with contemporary Spanish life and culture, the county's capital city is worth well more time. Not to mention all the lesser-known sights that could never be fir into just a few days.

I was there for 2 full weeks last fall (with a few day trips), and only just sufficed to feel like I was getting to know and connect with the city.

thanks for all the information. All of your posts were a tremendous help.

We have decided to skip Portugal this trip. New itinerary is:

Fly to Seville and rent car., drive to Cadiz area.
4 nights - Costa de La Luz (day trip to Tangier via ferry)
Back to Seville and drop off car
3 nights - Seville.
40 min to Cordoba by train
1 night - Cordoba

1.5 hr train to Granada.
2 nights - Granada
3.5 hr train to Madrid
4 nights- Madrid
.5 hr train to Toledo in afternoon).
1 night - Toledo.
Afternoon train plus taxi to hotel near Madrid airport
1 - Madrid airport hotel overnight
Fly home

I would put all of your Madrid nights at the very end of the trip. So, when you leave Granada, take the train to Madrid's Atocha station, then take another train to Toledo, and spend the night in Toledo. We did this, except in the reverse, to go from Toledo to Cordoba. It was very easy. There are many, many trains going from Madrid to Toledo, and it's only a 30-minute ride.

The next day take a later afternoon train to Madrid and spend the last 4 nights in Madrid.

If you do this, you might actually have an extra night to play with. You could add that night to Cordoba or to Seville.

Thank you kmkwoo. I think your recommendation of saving all of Madrid for last is an excellent idea. Hopefully can catch the train to Toledo from the same station I arrive at in Madrid.

I assume you are arriving at Madrid's Atocha train station from Granada. So, yes, you can catch the train to Toledo at Atocha. That is what we did.

We did Tangier on a cruise several years ago and had a guide with a car for approximately 7 hours. Tangier is larger than you think and we got to see the highlights between driving and walking, along with lunch at a local restaurant. Also, we got to go on a camel ride, which was really cool!