Your counsel pls! My Spanish is super rusty. I've been trying out several language apps. Any recommendations for the best language app where lessons can be accessed off-line? I studied Spanish for a few years – years ago –and while once fluent in French, I now have maintain a working knowledge.
Next question! Is it commonly acceptable now to use “tú” vs “usted” in Madid regardless of familiarity? I’ve come across several travel/language sites hosted by Madrilenians who have commented on this.
As a tourist you use usted for people that are not your friends and complete strangers and tu for children in any case.
Jazz+Travels … Exactly what I thought. Yet when several travel blogs by people living in Madrid mention this is no longer a common practice, and suggest tourists should adopt the more familiar conversational usage of “tú” - I had to ask. Appreciate your feedback.
Usted is used only infrequently in contemporary castellano, and really isn’t a default. I’m a B2/C1 and spend quite a bit of time in Spain. Pretty much only waiters (in places finer than bars) and Corte Ingles shop assistants speak to me in usted. The driver of the cab I’m in asked “¿a donde vas?”. I only use usted with my boyfriend’s 80 year old mother.
You won’t be looked at funny, but it really is fine to tutear almost anyone.
As for learning, I’m not a big believer in most of the apps. There are actually some great YouTube videos—you’d have to subscribe to be able to download them.
Y… saludos desde Madrid!
Scudder … Appreciate your perspective. Any favorite YouTube channels?
"Tú" would be the most used when addressing somebody you already know or kids, "usted" for persons you meet for the first time of certain age, otherwise it´s "tú".
My partner is a native Spanish-speaker from Puerto Rico. We travel to Spain every summer and I (as a native English-speaker) have made some observations about the Tu/Ud. use. In PR, Ud. is used more often when there is more of a formal relationship or a conversation with someone you may not know very well. For example, a waiter in PR would use Ud. with a patron. I find that Tu is used more freely in Spain. Certainly, if I were to address a judge, a priest or an older person, I would use Ud. But we've had waiters address us as vosotros, instead of Uds. The rules are different between the two countries. They are difficult to understand, probably because we don't have the two different words in English. I address my mother-in-law as Ud. If you call someone Ud. and they want you to call them "Tu," they will tell you. I think that it's better to err on the side of formality.
My Spanish teacher also said to error on the side of formality. Certainly with older people and people you don't know well Usted is preferred. Yes it is changing but Usted is still used and tu still feels like going up to someone you don't know and saying "how's it hanging?"
Im going to be honest and say in Madrid if you don't sound Spanish, people will switch to English. So definitely greet in Spanish but just know that waiters and shop keepers will talk to you in English.
No one will chastise you for using either. You’re trying to speak their language and that’s more important. While both the usted and tú subject pronouns are taught in school in the U.S., unfortunately the vosotros form seldom isn’t and coming up with correct verb ending for the tense being used is where is run into trouble. My observation over the years is there has been a slow, continual switch from using usted to tú.
If you want to get your ear used to hearing Spanish prior to you trip, pick a telenovela and start watching it. Likewise, you can read any number of newspapers to get used to reading it, e.g., abc.es elpais.es, or elperiodico.com.
As an interesting side comment, in Canarias (Canary Islands) the "usted" is very customary with everyone, as in the province of Cádiz and other areas of Andalucía. Spanish is very varied not only from country to country, but from region to region. As the OP is asking about Madrid, I would not worry much: "tú" is the logical option 99% of the time.
You can get by with English in Madrid and many places in Spain where tourists go (after all many UK citizens live or holiday there) if you're Spanish is rusty, just remember to say hola first and ask formally ¿habla inglés?
Otherwise the best way to learn is in person in a class with a native speaker role playing over years for maintenance with continuous immersion at places where no one speaks English.
In Spain, most people generally tend to use informal in daily life. We are not so up tight like the French. We are laid back and will not be offended or anything, in fact you will be commended for trying to speak the language. It's not like Germany or Sweden where everyone just speaks English instead.
We are not so up tight like the French.
Jajjaaa! I get away with a lot of imperfections in my Spanish. With everyone except my boyfriend, who is half French!
I’ve found that there are three types of Spaniards in this dynamic, two minorities and a large majority:
-The vast majority would rather be patient with rough Spanish than roll out their English (which maybe isn’t bad, but they lack confidence with it.)
-A minority who are actually eager to use and practice their English (regardless of their level.) I respect their effort!
-The smallest small set is impatient, and switches to English to get you done and gone. I don’t encounter this much in Madrid. More likely in beach resort towns with 98% foreign visitors, sunburnt and drunk. I empathize with their frustration.
Any favorite YouTube channels?
“Spanish with Vincente” is the only
one I subscribe to. I also listen to podcasts- the RNE news every morning, but that’s tough. I also like “Un Tema al Día” y “el Mundo al Dia”. Both current events, 10-20 minutes a day on a given topic. And both products of newspaper journalism.
Jajjaaa! I get away with a lot of imperfections in my Spanish. With everyone except my boyfriend, who is half French!
Yes, the French are very proud (and protective) of their language, and they take the manners to an obsession. It's always bonjour, merci, si vous plait, monsieur this, madame that... one would think you are still in primaria lol!
I'll also mention Spain has one of the lowest percentages of English proficiency in Europe. So many people you meet outside of the touristy areas may not even be able to fall back to English if they wanted to.
I've been trying out several language apps. Any recommendations for the best language app where lessons can be accessed off-line?
To increase your comprehension of the Spanish (Castellano) actually spoken on the ground in Spain, I suggest watching a few episodes of Masterchef España on Youtube. Here they speak in the normal pace with the regional Spanish accents you may face in your travels, it will certainly be a dive off the deep end but perhaps more practical than what they taught you back in highschool.
Thank you so much for all your feedback! It’s been super informative given everyone’s perspective and experience – and some of the comments have also been quite entertaining. Scudder … thank you for getting back to me re: the channel you follow plus other ideas. You all have shared some great ideas and tips on what else I may do to improve my Spanish. Such an amazing forum this is! Thank you all again.
As has been noted, most people appreciate the effort regardless of your grammar. I used Rosetta Stone to brush up on my high school Spanish (ahem, taken many decades ago) and it was useful to get refreshed in that regard. I also checked out Pimsleur CDs from my local library. It's pretty surprising how much came back to me. The hardest part was to remember to use the hard "th" sound as I originally learned Latin American Spanish.
A couple of side notes - I apparently look like I'm Spanish so I was often offered museum brochures in Spanish if I ordered tickets in Spanish, and was also asked for directions by a remarkable number of random strangers. I said a lot of "lo siento hablo ingles" and got plenty of smiles and nods in return. I was on a RS tour and ended up spending a lot of time with the tour bus driver because I spoke more Spanish than everyone else in our group besides our guide. He was a delightful fellow - we spoke a lot of Spanglish and had quite a lot of fun trying to figure out what we were talking about :)
Thanks, CL. I like the idea of having “muscle memory” re: foreign languages learned in the past. Appreciate your tips - and side notes too!
I'm going to agree with heather above, and recommend using "usted" by default. I've travelled in several Spanish-speaking countries, including Spain, and have found that while the formal language rules are often ignored, including those governing "usted" and "tu," only native speakers will know instinctively when those rules can be broken, and when they should not be. As a foreigner, and still not quite as fluent in Spanish as I would like to be, I don't know those exceptions instinctively, and so I carefully follow formal grammar and usage, including the default use of "usted." But if someone refers to you as "tu," it's probably safe to reciprocate.
Thanks Faedus, totally makes sense to go with the default.
YouTube “Butterfly Spanish”. Ana is a great teacher and entertaining.
