Spain/Portugal

Some random thoughts:

• All the places you mention along possible routes to Porto are good destinations. Have you taken a look at driving times on ViaMichelin.com? That might help you narrow things down.

• Your time in Barcelona is rather skimpy, given the number of sights there and their popularity (many requiring pre-booking of timed visits). However, you only have so much time and are trying to cover a lot of territory.

• I haven't been to Salema, but people on this board who have say it is overrated by Rick.

• Morocco is wonderful. Tangier is not. Think border town. That time would be better used in Spain or Portugal. Plan a separate trip to Moroco wben you have time to see places like Fes and Marrakech.

• Pamplona isn't so great.

• Granada and Cordoba are obvious omissions in Spain.

• There are many other interesting places in Portugal, too. I know 35 days seems like a lot of time, but it's actually pretty short when you're trying to cover the length and breadth of Spain as well as Portugal, not to nention Tangier. I'd rein in the territory being covered to allow for a more in-depth trip.

We are wanting to go to Tangier Morocco, so we will make our way to Tarifa & take the ferry to Tangier. We want to stay overnight in Tangier, 1 or 2 nights?

Do not do this.

A ferry trip to Tangiers is the worst possible way to "see" Morocco, and guarantees you would have the worst possible experience there. What you are proposing is akin to doing a short trip to Tijuana so you can see Mexico. The ferry port experience is a grotesque, made-for-tourists fake, "bordertown" experience, ensuring you are subjected to the maximum "touts" (people hassling you for various scams), "shopping" excursions, etc. and actually seeing very, very little that's authentic.

You have a long, long trip - one that most of us would greatly envy. You have plenty of time to actually see Morocco - the good parts - and it won't cost you any more time or money that the ill-advised "quickie ferry trip to Morocco".

Forget the ferry. Fly instead. There are dirt-cheap flights to/from multiple cities in Morocco from all over western Europe, including several cities in Spain and Portugal. Skip Tangiers and every other ferry port. Go straight to the good stuff: Marakech, and/or Fes. The flights are crazy cheap, and easy. While Morocco may feel exotic and edgy to many of us (and it is) keep in mind that it's a huge tourist destination for western Europe. The "Mexico" analogy is valid in many ways - Morocco is to western Europe as Mexico is to the USA: a source of immigration and labor (sometimes legal, sometimes not), food, culture, and an easy, close, inexpensive "fun in the sun" place for holidays. Morocco is very, very popular as a destination, so super-cheap flights are plentiful.

Look into low-cost airlines that fly to/from Marrakech and Fes (the two great Moroccan cities with vast intact medieval sections). Pick some city in Spain/Portugal and fly to/from there. You can easily connect Marrakech and Fes by train (nice trains, safe, cheap and easy) - fly open jaws: Spain or Portugal to Marrakech, train to Fes (or vice versa), then fly back to Spain or Portugal. With a few days you can see a lot there...and it will be soooooo much better than the bordertown experience you get at any of the ferry ports. The hardest part (which is not very hard, you just need to look) is finding the flights on the days that work for you - many of the low cost airlines that fly these routes do not fly them every day, so when you search, you should check availability for a few days either way before deciding on (or ruling out) any route. But the availability of flights (and their low prices) should pleasantly surprise you.

Just skip the ferry...

It’s a bit confusing, but is this 17 locations in 3 countries over 35 days? Far too much time in transit and too much moving on and the whole trip will be a blur. Two nights somewhere is only one day. You are missing so many places of interest such as Evora and Tomar in Portugal.

I would suggest that Morocco be left for another trip.

Nazare and Salema are both overrated beach resorts IMO. Lagos may be a better base on the Algarve.

I suggest that you look at Google Maps for drive times then add a third (they always underestimate) plus longer if you want to stop anywhere.

Sintra can be covered from Lisbon as a day trip rather than having a 1 night stay. If you take the boring toll motorway, Lisbon to Salema is a 4 hour drive, but if you take the more interesting roads, this would be a 7 hour drive. Salema to Seville is a 4 hour drive.

Drop one night in Nerja and head straight to Granada unless you have a burning reason for only one night there.

Thirty five days sounds like a long time, but you are trying to cover a lot of ground and you may wish to prioritise what is important to you and scale back the number of destinations.

I loved Nazare - had only a few hours there but could easily have spent a night or two.

Curious if you have previously traveled in this manner with so many destinations over a similar period time? We have done so and have since chosen to allow others be the drivers (train, bus, planes and boats) in order to increase the pleasure of our journey memories.
We applaud your dedicating 35 days to the journey and our prime counsel is to focus upon crafting opportunities to create wonderful memories. Too often the focus becomes upon "seeing" a great variety of destinations versus taking the time to experience the destination.

Thank you for the many comments. We think we will skip Tangier/Morocco this trip, we're not interested in a Tijuana experience. Will leave Morocco for another time. We will reexamine our trip & destinations, possibly eliminating a few & stay longer at some. This will be our 4th European road trip, having done Italy, France, Germany/Austria. We have previously included other means of transportation our trips, including trains & flights & a 10 day cycling trip on the Danube from Passau Germany to Vienna Austria. We enjoy road trips as we can travel at our leisure, however, we do prebook our hotels, so we do have to be at our destinations on the days planned. We're still very much in the planning stages, so all comments/advice are welcome.

I have been to both countries and enjoyed them, but the original proposed itinerary seems too rushed, too much crammed in. Are you determined to see Portugal, including the Algarve, and northern, southern, and central Spain all in one trip? A lot of territory to cover. Too much driving over often mountainous territory, which will slow you down - to admire the scenery and take photos as well as drive safely, extending the time en route (note: the Spanish police take the speed limits and observance of traffic rules very seriously, and tickets are quite pricey!). Look at a map and see what makes sense route-wise, as well as attractions. Be aware that some attractions (such as the la Sagrada Familia) and some trains (such as the AVE fast train) must be booked well in advance to save time and money. Also, cars are an unnecessary pain in the larger cities (Barcelona, Lisboa, Sevilla, Madrid - scarce, expensive parking, great public transportation).

I suggest the following as a basic next draft as you continue to collect information and refine your plans:

Skip Salema (you'll see Nazaré), Tangier, and Nerja (both out of the way and no big loss, especially on such a location-packed trip).

fly into Barcelona, stay 5 nights. May want to bike one day in this city. Pick up car last day.
early long drive to San Sebastián, 2 nights
afternoon drive to Bilbao, 2 nights, drop off car.
fly to Porto, 2 nights, pick up car.
drive to Nazaré via Coimbra (worth a visit), 2 nights (if you are beach people, otherwise, just 1)
drive to Lisboa, 4 nights including 1st day trip to Sintra (drop off car after).
fly to Grenada, 2 nights. (If you are experienced and patient driving through mountains, pick up a car to drive to Sevilla and onwards; I prefer bus / train for the remainder of the trip.)
to Sevilla 4 nights with a day trip to Córdoba.
(There is a fast train from Sevilla to Madrid; book ahead) on to Madrid 4 nights (May want to bike one day away from the city center) + Toledo 2 nights (several short 30 min trains from Madrid daily - buy tickets at the station).
fly home from Madrid (why backtrack to Barcelona and waste a day?)

This will leave you with 6 days to add where you wish for longer stays (unless you are counting travel from US and recovery day in your 35 days, which would give you 4 flexible days). See what makes sense to you and continue to research. Plan well and you will have a great trip!

Yes, it's a very packed trip and doesn't sound enjoyable to me. Based on my experiences, I recommend 5 or 6 nights in Barcelona; at least 4 nights in Sevilla; 2 or even 3 nights in Granada; and 2 nights in Cordoba. Cordoba was one of our favorite cities. It has so much to offer in addition to the outstanding Mezquita! And it was the least crowded city that we visited last September. Seville is beautiful, but we had to elbow our way through tour groups. I think Cordoba is underrated, and people who stop there for a day en route somewhere else are missing a lot. You have the time, so why not? Why rush through all these places? I recommend at least 4 nights in Lisbon. We spent 5 nights there in April, so we had about 4.5 days, but we spent one day in Sintra. We didn't stay overnight in Sintra, but I do wish we had the time to do that so your choice of 1 night in Sintra is good.

What do you like to do? I think you need at least 4 nights in Madrid, especially if you like art museums. Madrid's art museums are outstanding, and we also loved the Real Palacio and Retiro Park, and we wished we had more time for just wandering around. Toledo is good for 2 nights. I can't comment on any other places because I haven't been there.

Hope this help!

For your fine dining pleasure in Porto -
Most beautiful McDonald’s in the world
I ate at the most beautiful McDonald's

Your trip sounds absolutely wonderful but I would add one more place you must see and that is the Balearic Island of Mallorca. Following your long flights to Barcelona and the fact you will be on the go the whole time there why not spend a few days at the beach to unwind. There is a reason why the King of Spain spends his summer holidays in Mallorca and why Hollywood stars like Michael Douglas and Brad Pitt have second homes there. If you want some ideas of where to stay check out Alternative Mallorca. Personally, I like Port de Sóller for its laid-back charm and stunning sunsets.