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Spain Costa Verde 10 day visit

Hello fellow travelers, hubby and I are going to Northern Spain in late September for 10 nights. Thinking about staying in Madrid for 3 nights and flying to Santiago de Compostela. We are thinking about flying out of Bilbao to Rome on the 11th day.

We need itinerary suggestions and must see hidden gems in the wonderful Costa Verde de España. We are active seniors, but no driving, prefer trains and bus in that order. Love the coastal scenes and local culture.

We are debating which (if any) day trip to take from Madrid. Have been to Toledo and Segovia. Maybe go to Cuenca, Avila or Salamanca - or should we venture into Portugal and fly from there to Santiago de Compostela????.

Thinking about staying in Santiago de Compostela and doing day trips to La Coruña, Ourense and Oviedo. Then traveling by train to Bilbao and doing day trips to Santander, Vitoria and San Sebastian.

We look forward to your recommendations as to which cities, how long of a stay and in what order our travels should take us.

Thanks soooo much!

Posted by
7175 posts

Across Northern Spain with 10 nights
Unfortunately this is a trip where you really need a car.

Day
1. Travel to Santiago de Compostela (2)
2. Santiago de Compostela
3. Pick up car & drive via Lugo to Oviedo (2)
4. Oviedo
5. Drive via Astorga to Leon (1)
6. Drive to Picos de Europa (1)
7. Drive via Comillas to Santillana del Mar (1)
8. Drive via Vitoria-Gasteiz to San Sebastián (2) & return car
9. San Sebastián
10. Bus to Bilbao (1)
11. Fly from Bilbao to Rome

Posted by
26829 posts

I like David's stops, but I think he missed the "no driving" comment in your original post. I traveled through that area by train and bus during 2016. It can be done, but of course it's slower than having your own wheels, especially since you want to see some less-often-visited spots. I'm not clear on whether your 10 nights includes the 3 nights in Madrid. One week to move all the way from Santiago de Compostela to Bilbao would require some very tough choices. Even with 10 nights I would not attempt to include Portugal this time; Spain-Portugal ground connections are poor.

Starting from the beginning of your trip:

If you arrive in Madrid from the US/Canada and plan just three nights there, you really only have time for two day-trips, since the first day you'll almost certainly be really dragging. I'd plan for just some wandering-around time on arrival day. If by some miracle you both sleep well on the plane, I suggest an easy first-day trip (via frequent commuter trains) to the lovely old university town of Alcala de Henares. I enjoyed just looking at all the pretty building exteriors there, but the city has sights to visit as well; check your guidebook or TripAdvisor for ideas. I always have trouble finding the train schedule for AdeH online; I believe the trains go every 15 minutes even on weekends, probably from the Cercanias section of Atocha Station. Buy your ticket from a machine to avoid possible lines at the staffed counter. A roundtrip ticket may be about the same price as a one-way, so check that out anytime you're planning an out-and-back trip on a train. There may be some roundtrip discounts on buses, too, but I'm not sure.

As seniors you may qualify for a 6-euro Tarjeta Dorada, which will give you 25% to 40% discounts on train tickets when you can't snag a promotional fare.

For your two planned side-trips from Madrid I urge you to choose Cuenca and Salamanca. Yes, Avila has a wall, but really it's not all that visually interesting a place. With a car it's perhaps a 90-minute visit on the way to somewhere else. By comparison, Cuenca and Salamanca can each keep you busy for a full day.

Cuenca (which has two nice modern-art museums in addition to the catedral and picturesque architecture) is on the AVE line running to Valencia--very quick to reach by the fast train, but expensive if you buy two one-way tickets close to your departure date rather than a round-trip promo ticket in advance.

Salamanca has limited good train connections from Madrid. Best is the 8:55 AM ALVIA, arriving at 10:31 AM. Salamanca has a large historic district, so it will be worthwhile to do some planning about sightseeing targets before your arrival. If you buy early you can probably get a 20-euro RT ticket on the ALVIA.

You can certainly fly from Madrid to Santiago de Compostela, but there's a 9:15 AM train from Chamartin Station that takes just 5 hours, and I would find that a lot more pleasant than dealing with airports.

A Coruna and Ourense work as day-trips from Santiago de Compostela, but I think the latter is on the main rail line to the east, so you might want to see it on the way torward Bilbao, assuming there's a checked-luggage facility available. I haven't been to Ourense myself. I liked A Coruna, but I based there for a few days and used one day to visit the very nice Betanzos (no Americans there!). Closer to SdeC I also liked Pontevedra and the two small coastal towns of Combarra (very touristy) and Cambados.

Oviedo is interesting--quieter than the other large cities and not so often visited by foreigners--but it is in no way a day-trip from SdeC and would add extra time to the trip to Bilbao. Its best public-transit connections are probably to Leon (2 hours by train), which has a very nice, large historic area but is not an off-the-beaten-track city, though highly visitable and on the train route to Bilbao.

Out of space.

Posted by
26829 posts

It's over ten hours by train from Santiago de Compostela, so I wouldn't want to make those two cities my only overnight stops, with a bunch of day-trips--much as I hate changing hotels. Depending on how you want to use your time (and that big 7-day vs. 10-day question), you might consider stopping for a day-time look at Ourense, spending 2 or 3 nights in Leon (side-trip to Astorga is easy if you want to see the modernista site), then spending at least one night in Burgos. Burgos is not undiscovered; it's on the pilgrimage route. But the cathedral is lovely, there's a pleasant river flowing through town, and there are two nice monasteries to explore on the outskirts of town (public transportation very iffy on Sundays if not on Saturdays). Also be aware that a world-class wind is likely to be blowing in Burgos at any given time.

I suggest taking a look at the direct train route between SdeC and Bilbao (Deutsche Bahn is easier to use for this purpose, though it won't give you fares). Click on "Show details" then on "Show intermediate stops". Recognize that any divergence from that route (such as trying to hit coastal cities) is going to add a lot of travel time and mean more buses. The buses are perfectly comfortable, but I just don't think you can afford the time.

So now you've gotten to Bilbao. Side-trips to San Sebastian and Vitoria-Gasteiz are possible, both by bus. The train between Bilbao and San Sebastian takes a very picturesque route but is much, much slower than the bus, and I don't think you can spare the time.

Although you can certainly go to Santander, I want to discourage that. Due to a massive fire in the 1940s, it's a mostly modern city of (in my opinion) not much architectural interest. Yes, it has a magnificent beach, but so does San Sebastian. If you've seen one big stretch of sand, do you need to see another? There are reasons to go to Santander, but to me they involve side-trips to places like Comillas (modernista architecture), Santillana del Mar (highly picturesque, totally touristy medieval village), and the Altamira replica cave--any of which would be rather challenging if you were sleeping in Bilbao, because you'd have the considerable added travel time of the Bilbao-Santander roundtrip to deal with.

More workable options from Bilbao include Bermeo, a former fishing village accessible by local train (or also by bus), and Lekeitio, another coastal town mentioned in several guidebooks, but which I haven't seen. Lekeitio means a bus ride (not via Bermeo).

Bilbao itself is worth the better part of two days if you're interested in the art museums. The historic district is relatively large, and the downtown area has a lot of attractive later architecture from around the turn of the 20th century.

Much of the Basque countryside is very pretty, so don't resist making trips through the interior.

The more I re-read your original post, the more I think you have 10 days, total, including Madrid. Honestly, I think trying to hit Madrid, Galicia and the Basque Country, plus a necessary point or two in between, is an awful lot for that period of time, especially if you have an interest in art (museums in Cuenca, Bilbao, San Sebastian, Vitoria; probably also in Salamanca and Santiago de Compostela). Are you sure you want to use part of your time in Italy rather than spending it all in Spain?

On the other hand, I should point out that your Basque Country destinations and much of Galicia are great places to visit in mid-summer when the rest of Spain can be miserably hot. You're traveling in late September, so this isn't a trip on which you need to focus on northern Spain and try to see absolutely everything of interest in that part of the country.

Posted by
7175 posts

Yes I did miss the no driving comment. Sorry.
If I had seen it, I would have hastened to add that acraven has recent experience with public transport thru these parts, and will be along momentarily to assist. :-)

Posted by
6384 posts

Taking driving out of the equation, I believe acraven pretty much covered everything. In addition, I’ll throw Leon into the suggestions. Spent 2 nights there last year and found it to be a very nice city and almost as nice as Burgos.

Posted by
17 posts

Thank you - Ann, David and Jaime! Ann you are specially amazing, thank you so much for the exquisite itinerary details! You are an impressive tour director, your expertise is above the mark - awesome, really!! Jaime you're quick and to the point, I like that, too!
I'm considering everyone's suggestions. I have been doing additional research on trains and transportation in general, and specially because we only have 12 nights total including Madrid, (sorry for confusion), it would behoove us, I think, to drive part of the way. My husband refuses to drive but I am a rebel and willing to give it a try, if it means more time to enjoy the beautiful places in Northern Spain. At this time I'm thinking the following tentative itinerary:

Madrid - 3 nights - include one day trip to Cuenca or Salamanca
Train to Santiago de Compostela - 3 nights here, include a day trip to La Coruña
Rent a car - drive to Oviedo (stop by Lugo) - stay 1 night in Oviedo
Drive to Leon (stop by Astorga) - stay 2 nights in Leon, include a day trip to Picos de Europa
Drive to Bilbao - stay 3 nights, include day trip (via Comillas) to Santillana del Mar and Santander (I want to see el Castillo de Magdalena, where series el Gran Hotel was filmed ;) include day trip to San Sebastian or Vittoria
Fly from Bilbao to Rome (leaving on a cruise two days later)

What do you think? I wish for more time in San Sebastian but don't see how..unless we stay in SS and day trip to Bilbao and other Bilbao day trips. Please edit as much as needed.

I absolutely LOVE your expertise and advice. Even though I am continually researching online and on travel books, your description and routes are very comprehensive and so much more useful to me.

Thank you sooooo very much!

Posted by
26829 posts

I have a few comments about the second half of the itinerary. Remember, I haven't driven in Europe myself, so I have to depend on ViaMichelin for (said-to-be-optimistic) driving-time estimates.

I would not make the Picos de Europa a day-trip from Leon. It's too far (probably a 3-hour drive just to get there, and then you'd want to drive around). In addition, going to the Picos gets you closer to Comillas/Santillana del Mar/Santander, which you also want to see, so it's a shame to turn around at the end of the day and drive back to Leon. That's 6 hours of wasted driving time.

You have a similar situation with the planned side trip from Bilbao back to Comillas/Santillana del Mar/Santander. It's better to see them on the way to Bilbao rather than going to Bilbao and then heading back westward.

Although I'm no fan of one-night stops, they are more manageable with a car. Rather than 2 nights in Leon and 3 in Bilbao, I'd do something like this:

Drive from Oviedo to Leon (1) with a bit of a detour to Astorga on the way.
Drive from Leon to Potes (1) or other convenient spot for Picos de Europa
Drive from Potes (?) to Santillana del Mar (1) or base for seeing SdelM, Santander and Comillas
Drive from SdelM (?) to Bilbao (2).

As you can see, even though I've cut out several hours of driving, my plan still does not allow you to see Bilbao, San Sebastian and Vitoria, since you'd have less than two full days in the area. Don't forget that you may have trouble finding a convenient parking place practically everywhere you go, and you may end up doing considerable walking to get to what you want to see. You may also run into mid-day closures at some sights that make part of the afternoon unproductive.

If you don't need too much time to get a taste of the Picos de Europa, you could perhaps see it and then drive on to the Comillas/SdelM/Santander area the same day. I believe this is reasonable, because I took a one-day bus tour of the Picos from Santander.

Alternatively, if you don't need too much time in Comillas, SdelM and Santander, you could hit those places in transit on the way from Potes (?) to Bilbao.

Another possibility is that you could omit Leon (nice though it certainly is) and go straight from Oviedo to the Picos de Europa area. That would cut out quite a lot of driving time and, frankly, would probably be a prudent thing to do. It might come down to Leon vs. Vitoria.

Whatever you do, plot a path that avoids any significant doubling back.

As I rode buses through Spain, I didn't observe anything on the highways that made me think driving there would be particularly difficult, but navigating in the cities may prove to be more challenging than expected, and there is the parking issue. You'll need a guide book that provides information about parking options, and if you choose to stay in the cities rather than in neighboring smaller towns, you'll need to choose hotels that have good overnight-parking options.

Posted by
7175 posts

Similar to what you have, but this might flow better ...

Madrid - stay 3 nights - include a day trip to Cuenca or Salamanca

Train to Santiago de Compostela - stay 3 nights - include a day trip to La Coruña

Rent a car. Drive via Lugo to Oviedo - stay 3 nights - include a day trip to Leon

Drive via Picos de Europa to Santillana del Mar - stay 1 night

Drive via Santander to Bilbao - stay 3 nights - include a day trip to San Sebastian or Vittoria

Fly from Bilbao to Rome

Posted by
6384 posts

I like the locations you chose, but you seem to be doing a lot of backtracking that is eating away your time. No problem with the Santiago de Compostela with day trip to La Coruña.

Before getting into a suggested route, a little bit about the Spanish road system. Any of the A, AP, or E roads will be interstates just like in the states. (A=Autopista, E=España, AP= Autopista de Peaje (toll road).) The next best roads are the N (Nacional) roads. They were the interstates before Spain had interstates and are generally two-lane roads and well maintained, but if you get stuck behind a truck or tractor, it will slow you down. Where the autopistas bypass the small towns, the N roads go through them. Beyond those, the road signs are orange, green, or yellow and begin with two letters followed by 3 or 4 numbers. The letters equate to the province or region you're in and will change as soon as you cross a provincial line. The numbers are more important since the more numbers there are, the more rural the road.

Rather than drive directly to Oviedo then come back down to Astorga and Leon, maybe leave Santiago and go to Lugo, then over to Astorga, and then spend two nights in Leon. I'm not certain how much time you plan on spending in Lugo, but Astorga is worth a few hours depending on what you plan to see there. (Parking in Astorga is in a free lot below the cathedral and you walk up the hill to see everything, but it's a short walk). When I drove it last year, we spent a night at the parador in Villafranca del Bierzo because in addition to Astorga we stopped at some other small towns. In Leon, we stayed at the parador (by the Plaza de San Marcos, free parking). Beautiful hotel about a half mile from the cathedral. From Leon go up to Oviedo for the night. When you leave Oviedo, stop at Picos de Europa (we visited Cangas de Onis to see the medieval bridge and Santuario de Covadonga in Pico de Europa.). If coming from Oviedo, to get to the park, you'll be on N-634. Get onto the N-625 to take you into Cangas de Onis and the park. Leave the park by backtracking, N-625 to N-634, to the A8 to get to Comillas and Santillana del Mar. Consider spending the night in Santillana del Mar. If you've never been to Santillana it's worth a half day. It is touristy, but very quiet when the tourists leave at the end of the day. We stayed at one of the two paradors in town. The entire town is a no drive zone unless you're staying at a parador. From there continue on to Santander then, then Bilbao. No backtracking.

Posted by
17 posts

Thank you everyone for your advice. Our travel plans have changed. We now are looking at 25 days entirely in Spain. My husband is really nervous about me driving therefore I would like your recommendations regarding this trip via airplane, train or bus. We'd like to take our time visiting the following cities - not necessarily all of them, or add others depending on your feedback -specially, Acraven, jaimeelsabio and djp_syd - I look forward to hearing from you. :)

Madrid, Cuenca (or Salamanca) Santiago de Compostela, A Coruña, Ourense, Lugo, Oviedo, Picos de Europa (stop by only) Santillana del Mar, Santander, Bilbao, Vittoria-Gasteiz, Bermeo, San Sebastian, Pamplona, one or two cities in La Rioja region - (still researching which ones), Zaragoza, Burgos, Barcelona

This is a very, very tentative itinerary (much is based in your previous feedback - thank you!) There are only 19 days planned out of 25. I want to spread out or add nights to the stops - again, based on your recommendations... We'd love not to rush on this trip, although I do have interest in a lot of cities....

9/23/18 LAX - MAD / 10/18/18 BCN - LAX

Arrive 9/24 2PM Madrid, stay 3 nights - Train day trip to Cuenca or Salamanca
Train to Santiago de Compostela, stay 4 nights - Train day trips to A Coruña, Ourense and possibly Lugo
Train OR Bus to Oviedo, stay 3 nights - Train day trip to Leon and ??
- would like to experience Picos de Europa, but not sure how to get there -
Train to Santillana del Mar, stay 1 night
Train to Santander (want to see El Palacio de Magdalena), continue via Train to Bilbao
Bilbao, stay 3 nights, Train day trips to Vitoria-Gasteiz, Bermeo
Train to San Sebastian, stay 3 nights, Train day trips to Pamplona, La Rioja region - city? and Burgos
Train to Barcelona, stay 2 nights, depart home on 10/18/18

thanks!

Posted by
26829 posts

Barcelona needs moe time if this is your first trip. (I haven't re-read this thread to check.)

I really liked Cuenca, but the AVE tickets will be painfully expensive if you don't get non-refundable ones at the promo price.

I believe Santillana del Mar is accessible only by bus.

I don't know whether you can get to the Potes area by public transportation at that time of year. I know the bus tour I took only operated from early July to early September. Try Googling for buses from Santander to Potes. And back, of course; it's sometimes difficult to give yourself a reasonabke amount of time at the destination when you make an off-season day-trip to a small town. Potes is a charming stone town; I'd say it's worth visiting even if that's the only stop you csn make in the area.

The hill town of Laguardia, very near La Rioja, is reachable on a day-trip from Vitoria-Gasteiz. The latter is a very nice, non-touristy city. The bus from Vitoria-Gasteiz to Logrono stops at LaGuardia. Laguardia would also be an atmospheric overnight stop. There are good transportation links from Logrono to Pamplona, I think.

Santander to Bilbao might need to be by bus. I don't remember specifically, but I know I was on buses a lot as I crossed northern Spain. The big inter-city buses were very comfortable. Those serving small towns may be more basic. The FEVE rail line (re-named, I think) is really, really slow.

I liked Burgos a lot more than Pamplona.

Leon is a lively city with a large historic district full of bars and restaurants. It's a good counterpoint to Oviedo, which is historic but much quieter.

I haven't been to Lugo or Ourense.