In the very early stages of planning, so advice please.
Most likely flying round trip Madrid
Toledo
Granada
Seville
Lisbon
Porto
Salamanca
Madrid
Any major cities or areas I am missing on this route?
I am thinking car rental to avoid toting luggage from hotels to train stations and onto and off trains. How difficult is parking and navigating in these cities?
Feel free to let me know if this is a miserable idea.
We did a similar trip by car many years ago. It is doable and renting a car is our preferred option. The drawback is parking. It is not always a problem, but in bigger cities a car can be a problem . We park and the walk or use transit. It big plus is convenience relating to your schedule. Come and go as you please.
It is not a bad idea to drive.
If you’re only going to those cities then a train makes most sense. If you plan on stopping at sights between them, then a car is a good option. Personally, I hate driving in large cities and if I have a rental car will try to stay further from the center. Of the cities you mentioned parking in Toledo and Salamanca isn’t terrible since they are not that large. With all the one way and pedestrian only streets, Granada, Sevilla, and Madrid are a pain. Parking will cost 15-25€ per night.
If you decide on a rental car, select hotels with their own parking or near a parking garage. When looking at parking garages it helps to know when they were constructed. Garages, especially underground ones built before 1985 or so, were built for smaller cars and newer cars may not fit (or barely fit) on the ramps. We parked in one in Ourense, Spain years ago where there was literally two spare inches on either side of the vehicle, between it and the wall. Fortunately the vehicle had a sun roof in case we had needed to get out. While we made it, now we always check before entering.
I’ve never navigated the Spain, Portugal border using public transportation so will let others who know respond to that.
The Spain-Portugal border is hard to cross by public transportation. Seville to Lisbon has flights, but Porto to Salamanca is a headache (or a 7-hour bus ride if I remember correctly).
So a car makes sense at least for the Seville-Madrid portion but the trouble is, a car is a hassle in just about every city in your list. If you skip Salamanca and just fly from Porto to Madrid, you no longer need to consider a car.
How long do you have for this trip? 3 weeks?
If you're taking these cities in this order then Seville to Lisbon via Faro (where you could change to a train) is a 6 hour through bus ride on Alsa Bus for around 40 Euro, and Porto to Salamanca also 6 hours through ride for around 33 Euro.
I should add here that my sense of which cities to visit was drawn by the ones I have most seen on pre package tours for Spain and Portugal.
We can take as much time as needed to fully enjoy this adventure as we are retired. Other than Barcelona (which we have seen twice) and up the coast from there, to the border of France we have not been to any other part of Spain and none of Portugal.
If we are going to fly from the US to Spain, we want to take the time to fully enjoy each of the cities we visit.
My main objective here was to determine if it was better to use a car or train. It appears that the car may cause more headaches due to parking than the convenience of having one.
Maybe I need to think about dropping Portugal and concentrate on this area of Spain?
Focusing on one country does make your life easier.
And if you can "take as much time as you need" and can afford to rent a car, there are areas of Spain along your route where a car would be extremely valuable:
In recent years I've spent about 4-1/2 months in Spain, traveling solely by public transportation, and there are still many interesting-sounding cities I haven't seen, not to mention smaller towns. It's a fascinating country, with a lot of variety. The climate is also varied, so that's something to think about. The swath of northern Spain from the Basque Country to Galicia is coolish and wet near the coast. It's a great area to visit in the summer. Much of southern (especially) and central Spain tends to be miserably hot in the summer; that includes Andalucia, Extremadura, Madrid and Zaragoza. Those areas are best avoided in the summer.
It's not terribly difficult to cross the border between northern Portugal and Galicia, so as an alternative to splitting the Iberian Peninsula into Spain/Portugal trips, you might consider Portugal + northern Spain as one trip and the rest of Spain as a second trip. You wouldn't want to rent a car in one country and drop it off in the other, however, because there would almost certainly be a really painful drop charge involved.
What split is best depends on how much time you can spend traveling at one time, where you want to go, and what time(s) of the year you prefer.
One other timing consideration: Holy Week is a big deal in Andalucia, with hotel rates increasting a lot in some cities. Seville seems the most affected, and the Feria in Seville--usually two weeks later--is another exciting but high-cost period in that city.
Question, how long is this trip. If you tell me two weeks, then that is not enough time.
Further, you didn't include Segovia (day trip from Madrid) or Cordoba.
Also, between Lisbon and Porto, there are some interesting places to see like Obidos, Bathila Cathedral and Sinta.
We were thinking of spending around 3 weeks for the trip.
I can see I have a lot of investigating to do to try and work out where we need to concentrate our time.
If I concentrate on only Spain for this trip, is there any sensible route that would be a round trip from Madrid? I do like the idea of being able to work in lots of little village towns if possible. I figure airfare and car rental would be much less than a one way.
Is there any reason why you must have a round trip to Madrid flight? It may save you time and potentially money to fly multi city, say into Madrid and out of somewhere else. I rarely fly round trip, and only when it makes sense. I don’t want to waste time backtracking to where I’ve already been.
No, not really a must for round trip. I just figured it would be cheaper both airfare and car rental. If I could find a sensible circle tour back to Madrid without backtracking and have interesting places to visit along the way.
I am open to any and all suggestions at this point as I have just begun to try and formulate a plan for this trip.
We were thinking either early May or late September time wise due to the summer heat.
It's worth checking airfare from your preferred US airport(s) to Madrid, Malaga, Seville and Granada to see what looks viable. The round-trip fares can be a guide to which multi-city fares to check, because they are often around the average of the two round-trip fares. From my origin, Madrid was about $500 cheaper each way than any of the other southern options, but your home airport(s) may be totally different.
It's likely to be quite warm, or worse, in the hottest places in the south (which include Seville and Cordoba) in early May or late September. I'd try to put those stops early in a May trip and late in a trip beginning in late September, and even the latter will be no guarantee. You can explore actual, historical, day-by-day weather statistics for most places you'd want to go on the website timeanddate.com; you'll usually have access to data for the most recent ten years. Seville's the hottest, so that's the one I'd concentrate on.
Seville October 2022 (some really rough weather that month)
You should take a look at more than one year since weather varies so much. You can change the month and year via the pull-down menu just above the graph at the right. To look at statistics for other cities, use the Search box near the top right of the screen.
As geovagriffith mentioned there are additional very good stops in the area of Spain you're thinking about. Three weeks, believe it or not, will be tight because of the number of cities there with lots of, or time-consuming, attractions. Since you mentioned an interest in smaller places, I'll include some for you in this list:
I want to make it clear that I'm not suggesting what I've listed above is a 3-week trip; it's just a menu of options. This is an extremely sight-rich area.
Some of my initial ideas for southern Spain in 3-4 weeks:
First I'd start in Madrid then use a combo of bus/train to snake your way south then west wards, thinking Cordoba, Úbeda, Granada, Malaga, Cádiz, Sevilla. As you will be going to big cities no need for car here, it will be a liability trying to find parking plus $$$$ petrol costs will mount up.
After Sevilla rent a car then make your way back north to Madrid via the Extremadura region (a hidden gem), seeing places like Zafra, Mérida, Guadalupe, Cáceres, Trujillo, Toledo. Finish back in Madrid, drop off car and fly out. Here a car is good because you will be visiting mainly smaller towns and the countryside in a fairly focused area, no worries about parking availability/traffic.
Weather wise Southern Spain is better in October or April.
Thanks so much for all the replies.
I had not realized how warm it would be in May or September. It looks like I will have to adjust my timeline to April or October.
The proposed route using trains, buses and then picking up a car in Seville also sounds like something to think about.
I will start more intense planning shortly and may be back for more help.
In terms of organizing an itinerary for visiting Madrid and Andalucia, it's useful to know that Toledo is on a spur rail line connected only to Madrid. Those trains are very fast, so this isn't much of an actual issue.
The trains running south from Madrid go through Cordoba and split there or in Antequera for Seville/Jerez/Cadiz, Malaga and Granada. Trains between any two of those branches also tend to go through Cordoba. What this means is that you can slot Cordoba into your itinerary in many different places. This schematic map may be helpful; the express rail lines are in dark blue:
Spanish rail lines--Wikipedia (I looked for a Renfe map but didn't immediately find a current one.)
Spain also has a good bus network. For some trips (including Granada-Malaga) a bus may be as handy as a train, and service may be more frequent.
We are in Spain at the moment and really loved Extremadura. We stayed in Merida (2 nights) and Caceres (3 nights) and did a day trip to Trujillo.
Merida was outstanding for the Roman sights which are amazingly well preserved and the information available in English is excellent. We spent two full days seeing Roman ruins and could easily have spent another day there so that we could have done a side trip to Badajoz.
We have been travelling around Spain exclusively by public transport and used the train to get from Seville to Merida and Merida to Caceres, and then a bus for the day trip to Trujillo, a bus onto Salamanca for a night, then train back to Madrid. We only had one night in Salamanca but could easily have spent two nights there.
I will vote for the train (and occasional bus). When travelling in Spain I would worry too much about the added risks of having a car: having a bad collision; driving through the narrow streets of medieval towns, and finding parking; or paying hefty fees if my rented car gets scratched while sitting in a cramped parking lot. And contrary to what some people say, I actually feel freer without a car, than with one: without a car, I can drink whenever I want, or cruise tapas bars long into the night, without worrying about being in top alert condition for driving the next morning. (But I realize that travelling with one or more companions, as you appear to be doing, mitigates some of these issues.).
I also agree with what "Aussie" said above about Extremadura -- I have visited all the cities mentioned in that comment, though at different times, and can recommend them strongly.
Regarding driving in Spain, to each their own: I find driving in Spain to be an absolute joy thanks to excellent roads, light traffic and good scenery. I enjoy it more than at home in France. But of course, if your trip is focused on the bigger urban centers connected by high-speed rail (plus the excellent bus network), you can, and should, rely on public transport.
In the case of Extremadura, I was not aware that the Sevilla-Merida railway was still in operation: it does change my perception on the usefulness of a car, which becomes limited to (1) the Andalucía countryside (white villages) and (2) the mountain villages between Extremadura and Salamanca.
Aussie, do you think having a car for visiting the outlying areas would have been a help or hinderance? How easy was the public transportation with luggage? We will pack light, but still have one medium piece of luggage each.
Note also that we are both in our early 70’s, so don’t move quite as easily any more.
We were thinking of doing the rental car from Seville and exploring the area you are in then returning to Madrid.
I vote for a hybrid approach depending on your final itinerary. Extremadura with a car for sure. Andalucia by train for the main cities--car if you go exploring villages and parks.
I'm 71 with no mobility impairments affecting what I do in urban areas, but I'm female and distinctly lacking in upper-body strength. I can get a 30-lb. suitcase on and off a train (lighter would be better), but there's no way I can lift it overhead. I have to hope I find a floor-level spot for it or room on the first shelf of a luggage rack. I've always managed to do that in Spain, elsewhere in Europe, except in France during mid-summer when all the locals seemed to be traveling. There were two occasions when I had to forego my reserved seat and perch on a fold-down seat near the door so I could move my bag from side to side, depending on which side of the train the door was opening on. If you board a train at its point of origin, finding luggage space is much easier, but I go to a lot of smaller cities and am often boarding at a stop along the way.
If you have occasion to use an intercity bus, you'll find it easy to manage your luggage, because your suitcase can go in the hold under the bus; just take something like a tote bag (and purse) onto the bus with you.
Aussie, do you think having a car for visiting the outlying areas would have been a help or hinderance? How easy was the public transportation with luggage? We will pack light, but still have one medium piece of luggage each.
Note also that we are both in our early 70’s, so don’t move quite as easily any more.
A car for outlying areas would probably have been a help but we had made a conscious decision not to drive on this trip. Buses have worked really well for us, although there has been the occasional long walk from the bus station to the historic centres (Trujillo was an example of this).
Public transport with luggage has been pretty easy. Trains usually have at least one level wheelchair entry door and luggage racks at the end of each carriage as well as overhead racks. All the stations we have used have had lifts. On buses the luggage goes underneath which means that there are a few steepish steps to get onto the bus.
We have been travelling with a 46 litre backpack and a 65 litre wheeled bag. My husband is a fit 73 and I am a mobility challenged 59 with severe arthritis. My husband is luggage wrangler and I am navigator. Our biggest issue is that if I have been sitting still for a couple of hours I get really stiff and it takes me a bit to get moving. It can be a bit slow getting down the four or five steps to get off the bus, but the people behind me have all been patient at my slowness.
Thanks, this is very valuable information for making decisions based on our age and handling of luggage.
As for visiting the smaller villages by car, will the parking be a problem?
We also speak minimal Spanish, so how difficult will that be in smaller villages?
As for visiting the smaller villages by car, will the parking be a problem?
This might depend on when you are visiting. We have been in Spain since mid February so it has been fairly quiet, although at weekends there has been a lot of domestic tourists.We haven't seen any major parking issues in villages other than in places where there are restricted zones for heritage reasons. For example, some places with narrow streets will have designated parking areas and prohibit parking in the rest of the place.
We also speak minimal Spanish, so how difficult will that be in smaller villages?
I speak just enough Spanish to tell people that I don't speak Spanish and we have been OK. In small shops we just do a lot of pointing and smiling.
A lot of places have menus in English which is indicated by a small Union Jack symbol. We have encountered quite a few places where the menu is accessed by a QR code and then there is often a language choice. Most food shops and bakeries will have prices displayed and coffee seems to cost around €1.30 to €1.60. I have been using my credit card to pay as it's much easier than understanding how much they are telling you to pay. Whether you pay by "tarjeta" (credit card) or in "efectivo" (cash) everyone wants to give you the receipt (the "ticket").
I think we may have a better sense by end of summer of how we will handle our luggage and language barrier during train travel. We are embarking on a month long trip to Poland and Belgium exclusively by train in July/August. This will be our first ever experience on European trains with the exception of one train ride from Florence to Venice.
We are embarking on a month long trip to Poland and Belgium exclusively by train in July/August.
Enjoy. We have done Belgium, the Netherlands and parts of Germany by train, as well as seven weeks last year in Scandinavia using public transportation. European trains are easy to book, comfortable and ours have mostly been on time.
We travelled from Haarlem, Netherlands to Lubeck, Germany by train in 2019; it is now known as the "day of five trains". I wouldn't recommend it but it all worked well - all five trains turned up on time and all transfers worked out.
We're walking the Camino to start - getting to France by train and then car service. But once we get to Santiago de Compostella, we'll rent a car for a drive through Portugal and South Spain. From Sevilla, where we turn the car in, we head to Madrid, San Sebastian, Zaragosa and Barcelona by train.
Per Rick's book, cars in big cities are a bit of a pain - for getting around the cities and for parking. But in the countryside, cars give you more flexibility.
Most of those charming "small Spanish villages" in the popular imagination are actually full-on towns in their own right with 1000s of inhabitants. These towns most of the times have plenty of parking just outside of the historic center as most of the tourists get in via car. The authentic Spanish village with a pop of only a few hundred seldom has the sites and activities that foreign tourists really want.
If coming from the USA I'd say driving in rural Spain is pretty similar :)
PS: Poland has pretty good rail connections, better than many Western European countries, a useful relic of the Communist era. Now Poland is upgrading much of their rail lines with express and even highspeed train service.
Parking in smaller towns and villages is seldom an issue. If you know which towns and villages you plan on visiting, look up parking lots in the town and bookmark them to Google maps. It will save time upon arrival since you can go straight to the lot. In some of the smaller medieval towns, the historic center is pedestrian only and parking is just outside the center. In other towns there are some really narrow streets. Even if you can’t park in the center, the towns are small enough where the walk to where you want to get to, isn’t that long. In others, like Trasmoz, only residents can drive in town. There is a parking lot at the entrance to town for everybody else.
Thanks everyone.
I am beginning to think the outline by acraven and others of a train from Madrid to Andalusia, ending in Seville, picking up a car and heading north to Extremadura, Salamanca and back to drop off the car in Madrid.
I also realize we will need closer to a month if we are to do this without rushing or missing too much.
Great plan! I went back to see which month you were thinking--the area gets HOT--and April-May is a great choice. I was in La Mancha and Extremadura late May and managed to miss the heat wave of last year. April is probably a safer bet. You might see if you can work in a visit to the cherry trees: https://www.spain.info/en/discover-spain/jerte-valley-caceres/
I wanted to work it in but we did not make it.
Since you were initially interested in Portugal, you also might at least approach the border if you are interested in seeing a Roman bridge, at Alcantara. It is adjacent to a dam, which I found a fascinating juxtaposition. It's also a stunningly beautiful area.
if you are interested in seeing a Roman bridge
Merida has an amazing Roman bridge that is half a mile long. We saw a top level women's cycling team time trial on it a couple of weeks ago. It looked incredible.
You might see if you can work in a visit to the cherry trees: https://www.spain.info/en/discover-spain/jerte-valley-caceres/
We are in Spain now and the cherry blossoms are out now and beautiful. The ones in Leon along the riverfront park were lovely.
Stop it you guys😀. With all these wonderful suggestions we may have to extend this trip to 2-3 months.
Those cherry blossoms looked wonderful.
Does anyone know what the average time frame for the cherry blossoms is? when they bloom, how long do they last? If they are blooming now, wouldn’t it be way to late to see them int the late April, early may time frame?
I’m trying to get a sense of the time needed for this trip.
If we decide to do a combo of public transportation and rent a car after Seville, what are some of the places we should visit as we make our way back to Madrid via Extremadura and Salamanca? This may give me an idea of the time needed for this portion of the trip.
If we decide to do a combo of public transportation and rent a car after Seville, what are some of the places we should visit as we make our way back to Madrid via Extremadura and Salamanca?
We have just done (from Seville to Madrid):
Train from Salamanca to Madrid.
We loved, loved, loved Merida as my husband is very interested in Roman history. We also very much enjoyed Salamanca. Caceres wasn't as wow as we were expecting. Trujillo was disappointing as we mistimed our visit and the main sites were closed for siesta and the bus station was a long walk from the historic centre.
All public transportation worked well.
We visited Extremadura as part of our 60 day Spanish trip.
Aussie,
So would you suggest 3 nights Merida, 2 nights Salamanca, 2 nights Caceres? Or would you skip Caceres altogether and pick another stop along the way?
I know this is subjective, but just asking for your perspective having just done this route.
I would love to hear suggestions for this route from others, including doing it with a car rental instead of public transport.
Cities in Extremadura; Cáceres, Trujillo, Guadalupe, Mérida, Zafra, and Salamanca are the larger places. For smaller towns, Jerez de los Caballeros, Alcántara, Talavera de la Reina, Béjar, Morgaz. Closer in towards Madrid are Toledo and Ávila.
Castles: Castillo de Feria s. XV, Castillo de Nogales, Castillo de Brozas, Castillo de Coria, Castillo de Valdecorneja, and Castillo de Granadilla.
You won’t run out of things to see or places to stop. It just depends on what you want to do. Using public transportation between the larger cities should be fairly easy, but for the smaller towns a rental car is probably best since many of the really small places aren’t regularly serviced by train or bus. Many castles are not inside the town so getting to them would be easier with a car.
We do a lot of outdoor activities so unless you are interested in hiking, I'll leave those details out--but they usually involve some really excellent scenic driving on the other hand (Like at Monfrague, you can park right at the rock face and see raptors soaring at the top, or stay the night at experience star gazing). We spent four nights in Caceres and visited Merida as a day trip. We did not make it to Trujillo or Guadalupe, or a lot more--will have to return. I think you could devote a week depending on how much time you ultimately take, as I know it will be packed itinerary with Andalucia. But it'll be a nice little interlude before or after your intensive sightseeing.
Cherry info:
https://www.spain.info/en/discover-spain/jerte-valley-caceres/
Great website: https://www.turismoextremadura.com/ (If you have a Spain guidebook, it may just give a brief overview of Extremedura, so I went to the web for more detail).
Aussie,
So would you suggest 3 nights Merida, 2 nights Salamanca, 2 nights Caceres? Or would you skip Caceres altogether and pick another stop along the way?
It depends on your interests.
My husband and I both like slower paced travel and Roman history so for us Merida was exceptional and there was so much to see, and we felt we didn't see everything we wanted to. We had 48 hours there.
If you do go to Merida, be prepared for a lot of walking. The Roman bridge is half a mile long so takes some time to walk across it and back, and for the town itself although there is a tourist train (really a small truck that tows a few carriages) it isn't a hop on, hop off one. The Roman sites are spread out - there are 10 of them. For some you need a ticket but the ticket is for 48 hours and it just gets validated at each site.
If you would only be going to Caceres for the medieval area then it is compact and could be seen in a day. Our experience of Caceres was slightly dampened by it being the first place that we have seen a lot of homeless people and by the tourist information office giving us really bad advice about getting to Trujillo by bus.
We had 24 hours in Salamanca. This was enough time to walk along the riverfront, visit Plaza Mayor, see the cathedrals and the art deco/art nouveau museum, Casa Lis. We didn't have enough time for the university or the automotive museum.
I'm surprised hearing that about Caceres. We stayed outside of the old town (which seemed pristine) and spent a fair amount of time in the bustling "new" town and never saw anything like that. I'm not discounting your experience at all, Aussie, just dismayed the town could change so much in less than a year.
With a car in Extremadura, I'd suggest:
3 nights in Zafra - with day trips to Jerez de los Caballeros and Monesterio (if you like Jamon)
2 nights in Mérida
3 nights in Cáceres - with day trips to Trujillo and Guadalupe
Enroute to Salamanca make sure to stop at Monfragüe National Park and the Monastery of San Yuste (where Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, retired to after being the most powerful man on earth, his Deathbed is still preserved there)
Carlos,
3 nights in Zafra - with day trips to Jerez de los Caballeros and Monesterio (if you like Jamon)
If we don’t like Jamon, do you recommend less nights in Zafra?
If we don’t like Jamon, do you recommend less nights in Zafra?
What a travesty, this ain't your grandma's bacon lol :)
Anyways, yes if you don't want to make the Jamón pilgrimage to Monesterio, then I'd suggest 2 nights in Zafra.
Carlos, would it help if I told you I was Jewish? I’m not, btw, but just not into it enough to travel to a city just for it.
As I ponder all these wonderful suggestions and try to formulate a proposed route and transportation mode, I’m sure I will be back with lots more questions.
I am back after doing some more research. We will now have another couple joining us on at least part of this journey, so it may be more feasible to do a car rental for part of the trip and do a combination of train and car.
We now have a possible revised itinerary.
Round trip Madrid
Madrid 3 nights
Pick up car rental
Segovia to Salamanca
2 nights Salamanca
Toledo 2 nights
Consuegra day visit to windmills
Ubeda 2 nights
Cordoba 3 nights
Ronda 2 nights
Cadiz 2 nights
Return rental car in Seville
Seville 4 nights
Transport from Seville to Malaga suggestions
Malaga 3 nights
Transport to Granada suggestions
Granada 4 nights
Flight from Granada to Madrid with overnight at Madrid airport before flying home.
Does this make any sense at all?
We are trying to avoid having a car in the largest cities, so thought returning it prior to Seville might work best. Having the rental car up until then would give us flexibility to see the smaller areas that don’t have the best public transport options.
I also found out that Iberia Express airlines is a low cost option to get us back to Madrid quickly and cheaply. Any thoughts on that?
I like the itinerary. I will throw out a couple suggestions. Consuegra is 40 minutes east of Toledo and just off the CM42. It’s also only a couple miles from the E5/A4 you’ll take to Úbeda. Even if you visit the castle beside the windmills you’ll be finished there in less than 2 hours. From Consuegra to Úbeda is just over 2 hours. Since there will be plenty of time, after Consuegra, consider continuing along the CM42, then CM420/N420 for another 30 minutes to Campo de Criptana and its windmills made popular in Cervantes’ Don Quixote. Thirty-six minutes further is Belmonte and its castle seen in the 1960’s movie El Cid. From Belmonte to Úbeda is a 2.5 hours drive. Belmonte may be further from your route than you want to go, but Canpo de Criptana isn’t that far out of the way.
Thanks so much for your reply. I had no idea there were more windmills in Campo de Criptana. It certainly looks like it would be worth the detour. The Castle also looks intriguing, so we will have to consider including it as well.
When driving towards Campo de Criptana there are also the Molinos de Viento (windmills) de Alcázar de San Juan and Molinos de Viento de Herencia. I haven’t visited either of those.
Belmonte castle was nice to visit and is completely restored. There are some good views of the countryside from its walls and towers.
Thanks, I will check those out. Do you have any recommendations on best transport between Sevilla and Malaga as well as Malaga to Granada?
We always have a rental car so I can’t help with trains or busses. There are plenty of others on the forum who will have an answer.
There are AVANT trains between Seville and Malaga taking only 2 hours--not super-frequent, but enough of them to be a workable plan.
Many people have recommended buses between Malaga and Granada. The Spanish intercity buses on major routes like that are quite nice, and it's not a long trip--scheduled for 1.5 to 2.5 hours. However, if the timing works for you, there's a 9:35 AM train that gets to Granada at 10:53. There just aren't many trains between those two cities, so it's good to be aware of the bus option.
There's pretty frequent rail service between Cadiz and Seville, taking 83 to 108 minutes, so dropping the car in Cadiz might be worth considering if you don't plan to make stops on the way to Seville.
I really don't like the idea of flying from Granada to Madrid (and wouldn't do it myself), but the train schedule isn't great and a bus would take at least 4.5 hours. And then you'd have to get to the airport that day or early the next for your flight.
Spain is one of the rare European countries where sold-out trains are rather common. It's not a place to count on buying train tickets shortly before travel. You can check your travel legs on renfe.com to see the likelihood of sellouts, but weekends and holidays can change things.
Even buses can be sold out if you try to buy last-minute tickets.
acraven, what is it that would keep you from flying from Granada to Madrid on Iberia Express? Do you feel it is an unsafe airline?
I do like the idea of dropping the car in Cadiz and will check to see if the drop off fee would be the same there as Seville.
Thanks for your feedback.
Wow, what a great post! Acraven you are a wealth of wonderful information. While we have no immediate plans to go to Spain, I’m bookmarking this thread for future reference.
I think you have convinced me to drop the idea of flying from Granada to Madrid. I also think we will save the Madrid stay for the end of the trip.
I have no specific issue with Iberia Express, but I do avoid what I call "commuter airlines" in the US as well as in Europe wherever possible. I like to be on a plane flown by a highly experienced pilot. That's my personal quirk.
In this case, I just meant that it's a short-enough distance that I'd take trains or buses to avoid traipsing through airports. I hate the extra time involved in flying. For fear of missing the flight due to a transportation issue on the way to the airport, I always add a lot of time to my ground-transit plan. That's something I don't need to do if I'm walking to the train station or bus station. Plus it costs money to get to and from airports, whereas I can usually walk to the train or bus station. I did take a local bus to the area of my hotel in Granada.
After more thought on the subject, I have tweaked the plan again
Here is the reworked plan...
Flight into Madrid
Pick up car rental
2 nights Segovia
2 nights Salamanca
Stop in Avila
Toledo 2 nights
Consuegra , and Campo de Criptana day visit to windmills
Ubeda 2 nights
Return car prior to Granada?
Granada 3 nights.
Malaga 3 nights
Seville 4 maybe 5 nights
Cadiz 2 nights
PIck up rental car
Ronda 2 nights for White Villages before and after
Return rental car in Cordoba
Cordoba 3 nights.
Train from Cordoba back to Madrid
Madrid 3 nights
Flight home
Is there any major flaws you can see with the plan? I would love opinions on it.
Salamanca is only a 2 hours drive from Segovia. If you stopped to see Ávila between those two places, you could then take the southern route to get to Toledo. Taking that route you could conceivably stop at places like Alba de Tormes’ Convento y Basílica de la Anunciación, MM Carmelitas to see the tomb of Santa Teresa de Ávila, the towns of El Barco de Ávila or Talavera de la Reina, or Monasterio de San Jerónimo de Yuste. Taking that route would be a 3hr 20 minutes drive.
My point is, you have plenty of time between Segovia, Salamanca, and Toledo since the distances are not that great, so whichever route you decide to take look at the towns en route to see if anything sparks your interest.
Thanks for the suggestions. We will certainly look into these places if we make the trek up to Salamanca.
