It has been a few years (!) since I used any Spanish, and I see conflicting translations on this phrase. If I am ordering in a restaurant and want to say "I would like x," do I use Quería or Me gustaría?
This is actually for South America ( Chile and Argentina) if it makes a difference.
Thanks! Or should I say,Gracias.
Both are correct. Well, in any case, the first option would be "querría" since it's 'indicativo condicional' and "quería" would be 'pretérito perfecto' -indicating past time. Having said that, the most used form would be "querría" rather than "me gustaría" as you're "ordering", not "asking permission" -if you catch my drift.
But as I said, don't fret about this one because using any of the two forms your message will be perfectly understood: either "querría" or "me gustaría".
Also, you might or might not remember from your Spanish that this language is quite rich in nuances and there's another option: "quisiera", which in fact, in Spain would probably be better than any of the other two.
And to top it up... so far these are the extremely polite ways of ordering -which are not the "normal" ones. On a normal daily conversation, one would use the imperative form, ie. "tráigame un plato de macarrones, por favor". Contrary to the English language, in Spanish the imperative form is used in many circumstances and it's not meant to be taken as an authoritarian command, thus is not rude. For it to be authoritarian, you need to add inflexion in your tone of voice (=raise your voice) .
PS: Remember, the double "r" is meant to sound like a helicopter rotor.... otherwise, if you make it soft, or worst, roll it -as most English-speaking people do, then you're not pronouncing the double 'r' but the single 'r', and then your verbal tense would be wrong.... yet, as said earlier, any waiter would understand what you meant anyway :))
Enric, thank you so much. "Quisiera" is actually what I was searching for. It was what I used when I was in Spain some years ago, but I forgot that one, and did not find it in any of the references I checked. The Rick Steve's phrase book uses "quería" ( with one R) but that did not sound right to me.
Quisiera is what my supervisor at work (a Mexican-American native speaker of Spanish) suggested. Since I retired a few years ago, I do not see him any more, so did not think to ask.
I am also aware of the less formal imperative forms like "tráigame" but those feel less polite (more bossy) to me. I am sure it is fine between people of similar age, but we are senior citizens.
You have been very helpful!
My pleasure Lola.
Note that the imperative form is not "bossy" at all but used regularly on any normal conversation. Also, note that I included the "please" at the end of the sentence, hence the reason it's not bossy.
Age wouldn't play a factor in this particular scenario, meaning it's all right to use the imperative whether it's a young person addressing to an older one, or vice versa -at least in Spain. As I said, you're probably using an English mental framework, hence the reason you find it 'inappropriate', but it's not :))
OK, now I recall that when we were Spain, the waiter would ask us what we wanted to order with the single word "Digame.". The imperative. So I will get bold and try a "Tráigame, por favor" now and then.
I used to be fairly comfortable with basic Spanish, as I studied it as a school child in California, up to eighth grade. But then I turned to other languages, including French and German, and most recently have been studying Italian because that is where we have been traveling. When I first started learning Italian, all I could think of was Spanish, especially with verbs. Then the Italian started coming to me more easily, and now I can't find the Spanish. But I am working on it. I listen to "News in Slow Spanish" ( Latin American version) each day, and find I can understand most of the written text without resorting to translators. But bringing words to mind for speaking will take a bit longer.
I am afraid Spanish spoken in Latin America has nothing to do with Spanish spoken in Spain. There are far too many differences, from grammar to syntaxis to vocabulary to be listed here :))
This is not to say it wouldn't help to listen to the "Latin American version", better that than nothing of course, but if you want to get used to the accent of "proper" Spanish, it's better to browse Spanish websites (ie. news broadcasters, which tend to speak a clearer and more correct version of the language... try http://www.rtve.es/directo/la-1/ or better still http://www.rtve.es/directo/canal-24h/
Should you ever decide to visit my turf, you'll be pleased to know that your knowledge of other Romance languages (Italian, Spanish, French...) will make it much easier for you to grasp Catalan, our language, which also derives from Latin like the other Romance languages, so you'll be able to better enjoy your visit. In Catalonia -where Barcelona is capital of- Spanish is co-official but the local language is Catalan.
Enjoy!
Lola,
To add to Enric's excellent explanations.
IMO, "me gustaría", and "quisiera", basically have the same meaning (I would like), and you can use either one when ordering food.
You can also say something less formal like:
Keep in mind that in some South American countries (such as in Argentina), they use the subject pronoun, "vos", instead of, "tú", and "vosotros", instead of, "ustedes".
Having said this, you may use the more formal, "Usted" or "Ustedes", and be perfectly understood.
Have a wonderful trip!
Priscilla added useful bits indeed!
If anything, the translation of "to order" is not "ordenar"... that'd be used ONLY when referred to arrange/classify something, such as 'Priscilla, ¡ordena la habitación!' (=clean your room!). To order, as in 'I want to order a coke' is either "pedir" or, in certain circumstances, "encargar".
The use of the informal/formal form (tu vs usted -or vos) is indeed one of the key differences between Spanish from Spain and Spanish from other countries. In the later, the informal form is only used in rare circumstances, and always to address someone very close (family, friend...), otherwise can be perceived as rude; while in Spain is the other way around, the formal form is only used in very specific circumstances, mostly when addressing to someone older and also in business environments. In fact, to most Spaniards, the use of the formal form in most daily circumstances can be perceived as being a bit rude, as if you'd wanted to mark the distance (not sure this idiom translates correctly into English, does it?... in Spanish it means to make clear we're not friends and that you should keep distance and not take anything for granted, in short, not to be overly familiar. Does the meaning comes clearer now?)
Interesting conversation. So in Spain would I use the informal in hotels, shops and restaurants? Not what I expected. My thought was things even more formal in Spain vs Latin America.
I agree with Enric's comment here:
I am afraid Spanish spoken in Latin America has nothing to do with Spanish spoken in Spain. There are far too many differences, from grammar to syntaxis to vocabulary to be listed here :))
I'm from México, so the Spanish I speak is a bit different than the Spanish spoken in Spain. However, when I've visited Spain, I haven't had any problems understanding, or being understood.
I have friends from Central and South America, and we understand each other, but there are some differences.
Bottom line.... All these differences make the world an interesting place! :)
Lola,
Have a wonderful trip visiting Argentina & Chile!
More than I wanted to know about quisiera, querria, and quiero:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Spanish/comments/2yvnw7/whats_the_deal_with_quisiera/
And people think German is complicated!
Enric, since our upcoming trip is to Patagonia ( both Chile and Argentina), the Latin American version of the news is appropriate for me. I probably will not manage the nuances and differences between "Spanish Spanish" and Spanish as it is spoken in Patagonia, but I do hope to be understood when I speak.
We have been to Barcelona and we understood right away that people preferred to speak Catalan, their native language. Indeed it seemed that if one did not speak Catalan, then English was next best, over Spanish. We did find we could almost read Catalan, but never managed to learn to speak it.
For being a "quick question " the ammount of information you got is impressive. What I have perceive is that we, Latin Americans love to see a foreigner making an effort to speak our language. So,using any of the phrases you got will work great for you .
* Me gustaría ordenar ...
* Quisiera pedir ...
* ( name of the dish ) ___ para mí, por favor.
Have a great time in South América.
@All.... Just making a good use of "social" in "social networks", LOL!
Enjoy your trip.
@Susan... in Spain it's different whether you're selling or buying of course: if you work in a hotel/restaurant and are addressing a customer, you'll use "Usted"; if you're the customer, you may use "Tu". Respect and politeness is shown in the manner you address the employee, and the use of 'please'. But again, older generations might disagree.
Enric, I always thought that it was never wrong to use "usted" when speaking to adults. I would be very uncomfortable using "tu" in a hotel or restaurant setting.
And you're right that knowing other Romance languages helps with Catalán: when we were in Barcelona a few years ago, we visited a small museum near the Cathedral. The clerk said "Oh, you won't understand anything!" But we found with our limited French, Spanish, and Italian we had little trouble reading the explanatory materials.
I love this topic. My DH and I are taking an informal Spanish class now, but are planning to go to Italy later this year. The cognitive dissonance is driving us crazy. The class will be over in early April, we hope, which will give us time to get back in Italian mode - we hope!
Hi Jane, it's not "wrong", it can simply be a bit unfriendly in certain circumstances. Closeness is something very Mediterranean so Spaniards tend (at least nowadays!) to reserve "usted" for very formal situations. We Catalans are even more open in that sense, and "vostè" (equivalent to the Spanish "usted") is very seldom used. Closeness is also present in other aspects of social communication, such as personal space. Anglos or Scandinavians for example, find a bit enerving when speaking to Mediterraneans (Catalans, Italians, Greeks...) in informal conversations in close proximity (fewer inches from each other than you might be used to), or the touching (ie. arm, shoulder) which might be present in a conversation among Mediterraneans -again, might, not necessarily is, and obviously this is referring to a conversation among "friends".
As I pointed, you insert the concept of respect into the sentence by adding please (when appropriate), rather than by using usted or the usted form of the verb, and most especially by the general tone of voice, which is rather interrogative or even, if imperative, is very soft, rather than harsh (as in an order: "shut up!") -it's a difficult concept to put into words, I hope I'm coming thru :))
Another nuance is that you'll use the "tu" form of the verb but will avoid using "tu" as a subject in the conversation, because then can be too direct. You can see that in the example used above: "¿Me traerás por favor una coca cola?" (or even "Tráeme una coca cola, por favor") would sound more natural these days. This sentence doesn't include the subject "tu".
In the business world, there's a practice in Catalan (also shared by our neighbours in monolingual Spain), which consists in using the "vosaltres" form ("vosotros" in Spanish) when talking to your client, even if you're talking to a single individual. It's an in-between a very direct "tu" and an extremely formal "vostè/vostes" ("usted/ustedes" in Spanish). This is to achieve the above mentioned "closeness" without stepping into the "directness" -which could be construed as overly friendly, even disrespectful,-in the business world that is! Yet as soon as the contact with the client becomes more regular, it's very common to step into the "tu" form.
Funny enough, in French -which is a distant cousin from Catalan (and Spanish)- the total opposite is true: using the "toi" form can be extremely rude, both at a social and professional level, unless there's a deep relationship between both parties.
Lastly, it's important to differentiate between generations, of course, the formal "usted" would be more general among 60/70+ than among all the other generations.
But again, don't mark my words as "the rule"... more a reflection of the real world.
PS I hope @Anna(RS) doesn't find this conversation too much "off topic", LOL!
Thank you Enric for the insight. Things you can't get from a phone app.
Thanks, Enric. I love your explanations. I'll probably stick with "usted," but I'm going to start paying more attention to what native speakers are doing in similar contexts: hotels, restaurants, shopping.. I have noticed that young people tend to jump to "tu" much more quickly than older folks.
