Recommendations or thoughts please, travelling upcoming weekend to Madrid and BCN.
News that I read says even Madrid city has anti-independence demonstrations, with some waving flags with imagery back from Franco era. Really I don't know where to stand exactly; I understand no one's out to attack tourists per se, but I was hoping to go to Spain to get away from neofascism/alt-right that have emerged in my home country.
Posted by
northern CA
2766 posts
There was a speaker from Barcelona at one of the rallies here in the Bay Area this summer who said that her people had learned how to deal with fascists: when they try to take the streets, we take them back.
There are so many more of us than them that it doesn't take big gestures or violence to send them scurrying, it just takes everyone showing up.
A high-school friend of mine moved his family to Barcelona this year, and he mentions seeing a couple unsavory characters pulling down referendum posters in their neighborhood, with a trying-to-start-trouble look about them. The key is not to play their game or be drawn into a tit-for-tat. It's to show up in great numbers nonviolently.
A cop I was discussing the rise of proto-fascists with had an interesting viewpoint: people are going to say offensive things -- are you supposed to go and hide under a rock, and just stay there? They have to be confronted, but it has to be done safely and within the law.
Posted by
Ontario, Canada
4656 posts
When there is trouble, the creepy crawlies come out of the woodwork. Where there are opportunities for violence and unrest, opportunists appear. It has been reported that alt-rights have been coming from across Europe to Barcelona/Spain to take the opportunity to cause trouble.
The next few days will tell how things go, but no one can say what will be happening by next weekend. You have to decide yourself what your comfort zone is; but perhaps this isn't the most relaxing option for you right now. Feelings may still be high in both cities.
Alternatively, Andalusia is not the capital, or Catalonia; but it is still Spain.
Posted by
Barcelona (Catalonia)
3071 posts
Those that know me on the forum have seen me often trying to stick to facts and being very straight in my answers, however this time I can't.
Catalonia is living a key moment in its recent history. Today millions of Catalans have spoken and in the coming days "things" will happen. And much like when the Berlin Wall felt in 1989, the coming days are days of uncertainty because after having seen the brutality and heavy handing with which the Spanish paramilitary police, that has invaded Catalonia these past weeks, has tried to prevent today's vote -which has gone ahead anyway, despite them and all the cyber attacks, raids and detentions of senior Catalan government officials - we don't quite know how the Spanish will respond next. But we Catalans have taken a decision and will stick by it.
If anything I want to make ABSOLUTELY clear that there has never been any violence exercised by the citizens in ANY of the demonstrations, some of which have been the largest in Europe since the celebrations of Victory Day in 1945. All the violence has been exercised by the Spanish police in a good fascist fashion -again, not my saying, please read the most prestigious headlines, Wapo, NYT, etc. even the UN has issued a note.
Therefore, @blackcat... if you're planning to visit Barcelona these days I can only say: reflect and decide. I am afraid tourists don't have a "label" that tells one of these animals that you're not a citizen of Catalonia, therefore, if you're in the wrong place...
I never thought in my life I would have to be writing this post living in a country, Spain, that is part of the European Union and that many thought would have buried its fascists and Francoists past that terrorised our little nation, Catalonia, for 40 years after the Spanish Civil War. But here we are.
I apologise if my post is deemed "inappropriate" in a travel forum, but these are how things are today.
PS: I am very upset and shocked about today's events, with over 700 injured by the many Spanish Police charges in numerous cities and towns in Catalonia on people that were waiting at the polling stations to vote, so I won't enter in any further discussion regarding this issue.
Posted by
Coppell, TX USA
284 posts
Enric - Thank you for the posting. Seeing very limited coverage here in the news.
blackcat - You have make to your own decision on what you are comfortable with.
Edwin
Posted by
franktown, colorado
2252 posts
Edwin is correct. We aren't seeing very much coverage here in the US and I for one am relying on Enric and others currently in Barcelona to post their own assessments of what they see happening in Barcelona today. Thank you, Enric, for posting what you are seeing, feeling and blackcat fortunate, I agree with the others that you should go with what your own comfort level is telling you. No one can foretell what things anywhere will be like next weekend.
Posted by
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
8293 posts
I am so sorry, Enric, for what you are experiencing. It is very sad that your country is in such turmoil and I sense your anguish. Courage, Enric!
Posted by
Washington DC Region, USA
7054 posts
We aren't seeing very much coverage here in the US
It's on the front page of New York Times, Washington Post, BBC, etc.
Posted by
franktown, colorado
2252 posts
Thank you, Agnes. It was difficult finding much current news most of this morning and early afternoon.
Posted by
OP
90 posts
Thank you; your thoughtful responses have reminded me about what is important to me - I would like to think human rights and dignity, more than easy comforts. I was struck by so many images on Twitter of people risking imminent harm for what they believe in. At this point I am still planning to go, though as @Maria noted, it might not be the most relaxing time. It is my first trip to Europe as a solo traveler, with very limited Spanish and even less Catalan knowledge. I have been wanting to go to Spain my whole life.. I hope things get better for us all.
Posted by
2 posts
Off tomorrow flying into Barcelona first time trip to Spain. everyone worried but me. I was in Paris in the 90's and the Algerians kept bombing the Metro. Adds a certain level of stress. I am keeping safe. As long as I can get to the Sagrada Familia, things will be fine.
Posted by
OP
90 posts
@nesstarr I hope you have a wonderful trip.
I was reading again @Enric's eloquent and touching reply; I had been following the news, but didn't realize the vast number of injuries inflicted on people by militarized police force (over 750 according to NYT).
Wondering small-mindingly, with recent political dynamics and mobilizations, whether it would be better or worse to look like a tourist.
(For instance the "Hop On, Hop Off" bus looks ghastly, but convenient. )
Posted by
Seattle
41 posts
Enric, I am so sorry for what is happening in Catalonia. Please continue to post when you feel you can. It is important for as many people as possible to be made aware of what is happening, not just from news sources but from those personally affected. Yours is a respected voice. Horrible things are happening in my country (USA) also. What a world. Stay safe and strong.
Posted by
Berkeley CA
1321 posts
Enric -- thank you for posting. I was hoping that we would hear from you, partly for your perspective and partly to know that you were not injured.
Please continue to post what you see. (Perhaps you might start your own thread so that we can more easily find you.)
SharYn
Posted by
India
25 posts
Enric- Thank you for your post. Stay safe!
Posted by
Spring, Texas
635 posts
This thread is entirely political. I'm only here for travel information which this thread has little if any.
Posted by
northern CA
2766 posts
There's a simple infographic summarizing the independence issues, so you travelers can be better informed without diving into the details (lazy bums :P ) here:
Posted by
2 posts
For those of you there and traveling to Barcelona, your continued updates are appreciated. We are scheduled to arrive in Barcelona on Saturday. Please let us know if you are able to travel through the airports and train stations easily or if some transportation is halted, if major tourist attractions are closed ( I read somewhere Sagrada Familia was closed), and the overall feeling you have while walking the streets. Are certain neighborhoods unaffected?
Of course we understand this can change at any moment, but it is hard to gather information and updates here in the states. We want to know as much information as possible to make an informed decision.
Many thanks and prayers for all....
Posted by
Laval, Québec, Canada
336 posts
@gypsy girl
sagrada familia was closed today, so was the whole city as there was a general strike.
I am also arriving saturday for a week in Barcelona and watching the situation very closely.
To be honest, i can’t wait to be there in such an important moment in history for catalans.
Posted by
Medford, OR, USA
5837 posts
This thread is entirely political. I'm only here for travel information which this thread has little if any.
I'm not sure what is and isn't "political" these days but the discussion of both the Catalonian referendum and its repercussions has relevance to travel on several levels.
First, the repercussions of the "Si" vote potentially affects travelers to the region. For example: https://es.usembassy.gov/message-u-s-citizens-general-strike-october-3rd-2017/
The U.S. Embassy in Madrid and the U.S. Consulate General in Barcelona
inform U.S. citizens that a general strike is scheduled to begin in
Catalonia beginning on Tuesday, October 3, 2017. Expect possible
disruptions to public transportation and other services. We encourage
U.S. citizens to check for updates....
Second, understanding the history the destination and its politics is part of the traveler's learning experience.
And third, Rick Steves authored "Travel as a Political Act".