El Camino

Just take into account that there´s not only one Camino, there are over 18 different ones (my uncle has done all of them, finishing his last 21st different Camino last year at 82). People tend to think that the French one is the real one...well, not really!!

MikelBasqueGuide- I die a little death inside when I hear North Americans refer to that most famous/popular route as the “Camino Francis”.

No... really?

Yup. It’s cringeworthy.

I am sadly not well traveled.

I only heard about The Way when I went to an AARP conference in Los Angles many years back. . Martin Sheen and his son came. They presented the new movie "The Way" I fell in love with it and was haunted by it. I kid you not.

When I was looking for a cruise to take, I discovered that I will be able to take an excursion to Santiago from Vigo. That did it or me. I booked the cruise.

I knew very little as I began to research my cruise and learn about the ports. This forum has been so helpful. I knew so little about The Way and El Camino and you have all educated me. I thank you.

This cruise is almost fully booked.

Yes there are quite a number of Caminos that converge on Santiago, of different lengths and with varying amounts of services/lodging along the way. The most well known is the Camino Frances. I am planning on doing the Camino Portugues, which is considered the second most popular. The popularity of this experience has really skyrocketed over the last few years, but for all those who do undertake walking the Way of their choice, for whatever reason they do it, it is a very personal and transformative adventure.

There are Camino routes all over Europe. People left their homes and gathered in towns and cities and often followed old trade routes and Roman roads, but they all converge in Santiago di Compostela.

I just finished 7 weeks walking from Saint Jean Pied di Port to Santiago. This was Camino #5 for me.

I’ve seen the brass Camino shells on streets in both Brugges and Brussels, Belgium. At the cathedral in Metz, France there was a sign saying you could get your credentials stamped in the cathedral. Below it was a sign displaying all the Camino routes throughout Europe.

Just for a visual clue... so we can get people to stop using "el camino" as if it was a 'specific' term :)))

https://conalforjas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/IMG_20150807_122135.jpg

Also note that different stretches of it have different names, ie. https://www.catalunya.com/cami-de-sant-jaume-24-1-61?language=en

A lot of Europe calls it the Jakobsweg and not the Camino, because St. James is St. Jakob in other countries. Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, etc. I have met multiple people who started in their country and walked to Santiago.

There are multiple names and routes in Spain too, the Camino Frances is the most popular, but there is the Primitivo, the English Way, etc. as well as 4 routes in Portugual.

Eric,

I tried to click on your first link and got an error message that site could not be reached.

As someone who knows very little about El Camino, this is all very interesting but also very confusing.

I only first heard about The Way when I saw the movie "The Way" with Marin Sheen some years ago at an AARP conference in Los Angeles.

Thank you all for your input.

We walked the Camino Santiago in May from St Jean Pied de Port. We meet pilgrims in sarria who took different routes to get there. We've since been to Portugal and Southern Spain-- and have seen route indicators and pilgrims in Lisbon, and route indicators in Ronda...

There are also linking routes from all over England, which are considered to be part of the Camino with, traditionally, crossings to Spain by small boat from Cornish ports.
The old route through Cornwall still counts (and is now waymarked) towards your minimum required Camino mileage to be counted as a pilgrim- then now backtrack to Plymouth for the modern ferry to Santander, and do whatever the rest of the minimum mileage is in Spain to finish in Santiago.

I am well aware of a lot of the Jakobsweg issues and items, and a friend had just returned from her third Camino.

I will say that brains once indoctrinated are hard to change. To me an El Camino - from my teen years - is a car made by Chevy that goes. Fast.

In 2019, while in a small laundry mat in Pamplona, I met two young Dutch women traveling on bicycles from Amsterdam. Their destination was Santiago. That is a long Camino.
The "experts" say, regardless of your starting point, your Camino begins with your first step.

@Nigel

I will say that brains once indoctrinated are hard to change. To me an El Camino - from my teen years - is a car made by Chevy that goes. Fast.

I am sure that for many of the California members here "El Camino" is the Spanish road that goes from south the north in California.

@Blue439, a few years ago I meet a pilgram here in Logroño who had come from Krakow. Walking. He had left on the July 25th (St. James Day). When he arrived here around the 10th of December, he had to stop and rest a while due to a stress fracture in his foot.

Have met a number of people who walked out of their homes in the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Ireland, Poland, Vienna, etc. and were on their way to Santiago. Have a friend who biked from Frankfurt to Santiago and back home again.

Perhaps if people called the routes by their names? Camino Frances, Portuguese Camino (coastal route or central route), Camino Primitivo, etc? There are also routes going through Europe to Rome and Jerusalem

Ms Jo

I have heard of a walk called something like The Abraham or Abrahamic Walk which goes through the Holy Lands. It might be The Walk of Abraham.

Perhaps many people do not know the proper names for all the Caminos . I don't. When I first began posting about El Camino on this site, I thought there was only the one in Spain and that was from seeing the movie "The Way"

I have learned so much from members on this site.

@bostonphil7 try again, it's working fine from my end and I've tested in different devices

In Catalonia, the stretch of the "Way" it's called "Camí de Sant Jaume" :)

Enric,

This is the message that I continue to get

This site can’t be reachedThe webpage at https://conalforjas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/IMG_20150807_122135.jpg might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.
ERRHTTP2PROTOCOL_ERROR

The problem might be geographic, that I am in The United States

Update. I attempted https://conalforjas.com/categorias/rutas/ and was able to access.

It is a cycling travel site, is that correct?

Yep, I don't understand cause I can see it fine, even when using a proxy in the US.
Anyway, let's make things easy: I've downloaded the image and uploaded it to a image server, https://pasteboard.co/dqQ7ieipZ831.jpg

thank you, Eric.

So that is a map of all The Caminos. All the routes are in red, correct?

Is the final destination always Santiago and St James' church or is it the ocean in Santiago after mass at St James?

These are the many routes that go through Europe:
https://www.jakobswege-europa.de/wege/

And the routes in Spain and Portugal:
https://www.aarushijains.com/map-of-the-camino-de-santiago/

Yes, they all end in Santiago di Compostela. One can continue and walk to the coast, but that is different.

Yes, they all end in Santiago di Compostela. One can continue and walk
to the coast, but that is different.

That's not quite so, in reality, the Camino de Santiago officially ends in the Costa da Morte, more precisely at the cape of Finisterre (which in Latin meant "end of the Earth"). The cape is located some 98 km / 60 miles from Santiago de Compostela and many pilgrims venture this stretch called "Jacobean extension" to the famous spot where two historical rituals can be carried out: burning the clothes and purifying one's body in the waters of the sea.

More info: https://www.viajesdeprimera.com/espana/galicia/donde-acaba-camino-santiago/17602

For those starting their journey in the UK, this website is about the various pilgrimage routes which are officially counted as the Camino Ingles (the English Camino).
Essentially you do at least 25km in the UK and then start at A Coruna in Spain (some of these routes are much longer than 25km).
All these are original Pilgrimage routes in their own right.
In addition to these another great route to learn about Celtic Spirituality (whatever your faith) is the Cornish Celtic Way- a 125 mile route from St Germans down to St Michael's Mount near Penzance-much of the route is shared with the South West Coastal Path and passes many tourist attractions, so it is an interesting mix of an experience.

This thread has come a long way from one cruise ship day excursion!!

I belong to a Church dedicated to St James the Great (as he is technically known, as opposed to St James the Less which some Churches are dedicated to).

25 July is his feast day, when the Cathedral is only open for mass, not for general visiting.

"Yes, they all end in Santiago [de] Compostela..."

I don't think that's correct. The distance markers in Muxia and Finisterre are marked as KM 0.

My memory is KM 0 is Santiago. I recall a lot of mile markers (km markers rather) had the mileage scratched off-- but I thought that was protesting something other than the end point.

In any case, I stopped in Santiago-- that's where I ended my walk. Many others also went to the coast. But my way of thinking now is that my camino really ends when I die. And I plan on living forever-- which, by the way, so far, so good.

Wherever you walk and whatever you call it, enjoy it!

isn31c

My head is spinning from all the information and knowledge that I have been receiving.

Keep in mind that I only first heard about The Way from a movie that Martin Sheen was in a very long time ago

Until recently, I thought there was only one walk across Northern Spain. I had no idea ....

I had no idea that what appeared to be a simple question about The Way would become so complex. I am talking about when I first posted my original question about a cruise excursion to Santiago in the Spain travel forum.

So I have found out that there are rules about what is a Camino and who has walked a Camino? You have a card and you get stamps?????? maybe among other things.

But there are also rituals, correct? When you reach St James Cathedral in Santiago, there is a Pilgrim's Mass. What happens if you continue on to the ocean? Are there rituals at the ocean?

Someone has mentioned rituals burning the clothes and purifying the body at another site altogether.

Eric

I copied Camí de Sant Jaume"

and got this

Camí de Sant Jaume
The Way of Saint James in Catalonia

This is just the heading of the page. There is a lot more and it looks to be informative and will be very helpful.

Thanks

The card is credenciales or pilgrim’s passport and you pick one up where you start your Camino. You get it stamped along the route. If you’re doing a long walk, you’d probably only get it stamped at churches, historic locations, monasteries, etc.. if you had it stamped at restaurants, hotels, etc., it would fill up quickly and you’d need to get another credencial. Optimally, the last stamp will be at the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela.

Whether you attend a pilgrim’s mass at the cathedral is up to you. There are a few each day. I know of no specific ritual if you continue on the Muxia. One tradition is to carry a small stone with you on your Camino and when you arrive at the Cruz de Hierro (iron cross) you place the stone on the pile and say a prayer or why you undertook the pilgrimage, or something to that effect. You’d need to read up on it.

By the way one of the alleged hands of St James the Great (of Santiago) was 'liberated' in the 12th century and brought to England, where it ended up at Reading Abbey. On the Dissolution of the Monasteries it was hidden in the Abbey Ruins for 250 years and is now at St Peter's Church, Marlow, England.
The circumstances of how his relics ended up in Santiago in the 10th century are obscure.
There is actually a 3rd St James- James the Deacon. He was a Northumbrian Saint of the 7th century, being involved in the great Synod of Whitby (which set the modern calculation of the date of Easter). Little else is known of his origins or the date of his death.
I am keeping this brief as this forum is not really the place to be delving deeply into Christian history.

Today on the news there was a story about how about eleven albergues (Estella, Los Arcos, Canfranc, Logroño, Navarrete, Nájera, Santo Domingo de la Calzada, Burgos, Astorga, Foncebadón y Ponferrada.) are prohibiting travelers with suitcases. It seems that more and more "pilgrams" are using transport services to take their luggage from town to town. These more traditional albergues say that pilgrams carry their posessions with them, and tourist travel with suitcases.

@isn31c don't forget that sometimes St. James is know as Santiago Matamoros. In the church of Santiago here in Logroño, over the main door is a statue of St. James on his white horse, sword raised and a bunch of decapitated heads on the floor under his horse.

Which presumably is to do with St James supposedly re-appearing 800 years after his death at the disputed battle of Clavijo when Christians were supposedly fighting and expelling the Muslim Moors. A story with pretty weak basis in fact, but a powerful story in Spain.

I hope that NCL have enrichment lectures on board. This port call, alone, would be a good and enthralling hours lecture with the right person delivering it.

At least we managed to keep Le Havre strictly to the matter in hand, of what excursion to do!!

isn31c

Unfortunately my experience is that Norwegian does not offer very good enrichment lectures if at all. Enrichment lectures / classes seem to be offered by the more expensive lines such as Viking.

My time in Santiago is going to be short, only 3 1/2 hours and I will be on my own.

It is very possible that many of the other passengers will know more than me and educate me on the ride to and from. Furthermore we might have a guide on the bus or the bus driver might also be giving us information as we go and come.

Probably I am going to spend most of my time inside St James' Church or around the church. Maybe I will be there for part or for all a mass.

I love cruising. Usually it is a good deal and you see a lot but it is also a tease. you have limited time in ports and on excursions.

Still I continue ue to cruise ...

UPDATE. Here is a description of the excursion from Vigo to Santiago that I have signed up for

6 1/2
hrs
Estimate Duration
Explore Santiago de Compostela, one of the most important cities in Europe and the third most important place in the world for Christian pilgrimage at your own pace. You’ll have a guide during the bus ride who’ll inform you about the city and possible things to do on your own once you arrive. Enjoy approximately 3 1/2 hours of free time and at the designated time, meet back at the parking lot for the return to your ship in Vigo.

Actually, I believe that this forum is sometimes a very good place to delve into religions because religion has so influenced Europe and all the rest of the world in actuality. I love the study of religion and it is one of my hobbies., one of my great interests.

How can one go to Europe and not visit a church, mosque or synagogue?

I usually cruise (or did before the big C) with Cruise and Maritime Voyages (a budget UK cruise line)- now reformed as Ambassador after they went bust in Summer 2020.
For all that they were a budget line we always had very good enrichment lectures, on all kinds of topics. But, at least on the over a week cruises, there would almost always be one lecturer who would give port talks (separate from the ship's excursion presentations) specifically aimed at those doing independent port exploration.
Usually 2 or 3 speakers on each cruise.
Some people chose their cruise for the theme/lecturer.

isn31c

I am in Norwegian Cruise Lines (NCL) chat rooms/ forums. One of the complaints from guests who have cruised many times and on different lines is that NCL does not offer enrichment programs especially when compared to other cruise lines.

Before we pull into a port, there is often information on the large screen in the Atrium. It is a travel program about what to do in the port we are arriving but everything is glossed over. There is info about where to eat, where to shop, what excursions are available through NCL and some facts about the port.

Sometimes there have been talks before we port but again it has a lot to do with with what excursions are available and where to shop. NCL sometimes has advisors on board who even go on the port with you but they seem to direct you to specific businesses and other establishments. I believe that commissions (and kickbacks) are paid.

However some guests get some very good deals when shopping sometimes with the help of the NCL advisors.

I am going to watch for enrichment programs on my upcoming cruise in October and see if there are any. I can see that these programs would be of great value and very educational and informational.