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Need some of your expert advice!

Hello fellow travelers. I am planning a trip for both my husband and I. Below is the 18 day itinerary I'm working on. The plan is to rent a car the entire time with the exception of when we leave Barcelona to go back to Madrid, we plan on taking a train. What are your thoughts of the below please and thank you!

I will clarify that 18 days includes 2 days of travel, thus, 16 total days of sight seeing. We’ve also been to Barcelona twice so this is not a priority this trip. Finally, going back to Madrid from Barcelona is purposeful because we want to ride a train.

15-Apr LAX-MAD

16-Apr Madrid

17-Apr Toledo/Madrid

18-Apr Avila/Segovia/Salamanca

19-Apr Salamanca

20-Apr Sevilla

21-Apr Sevilla

22-Apr Arcos

23-Apr Tarifa

24-Apr Malaga

25-Apr Nerja/Granada

26-Apr Granada

27-Apr Valencia

28-Apr Valencia

29-Apr Peniscola/Barcelona

30-Apr Barcelona

1-May Madrid

2-May MAD-LAX

Posted by
6788 posts

OK, I'll go first...

Why waste a day (and the cost) of going back to Madrid to fly home from there? Barcelona has a perfectly good airport (a couple, actually). Fly "open jaw", in to Madrid, out from Barcelona. That buys you at least one additional usable day for your trip. And based on your list of places you are trying to knock out in just 17 days (not 18 -- you're not counting honestly...), you are going to need that extra day.

There are lots of other issues (pacing, prioritization, and more) but I'll let others go there.

Posted by
27154 posts

I count this as 16 days at most. The arrival day may be a jetlagged, sleep-deprived blur, and a good chunk of May 1 will be spent getting back to Barcelona unless you can switch to a multi-city flight.

You've mostly got great destinations there (I haven't been to Peniscola, Nerja or Tarifa), but you really aren't giving yourselves much time to see Seville, Barcelona and Madrid. Those cities have a lot more sights than you'll have time for--though if you have no interest in Madrid's art museums, you may find 1-1/2 days sort of adequate. I think you're going to be rushing through Segovia, and I see you're skipping Cordoba.

I'd prioritize Cordoba way, way over places like Tarifa (or a day trip to Tangier if that's your plan) and Nerja.

Avila has a wall and not much else. I wouldn't worry too much about a short stop there if you were just going on to Segovia that day, but you plan to just stop (I guess briefly) in Segovia and then go on to Salamanca. I think you'll enjoy that day a lot more if you focus on Segovia. Edited to add: ViaMichelin estimates that day's pure driving time at over 4-1/2 hours.

I'd also choose no more than one of Malaga and Valencia in order to free up some time for the more important stops. They are both attractive coastal cities, but in my view they don't have the spectacular sights of Barcelona and Seville or the world-class art museums of Madrid.

I recommend using ViaMichelin.com for driving-time estimates. Don't forget to pad those times for stopping along the way, potential traffic delays, getting lost and looking for parking. You're planning to drive into a lot of sizable cities where the car will be burdensome--difficult and costly to park. I hope you'll decide to trim the itinerary quite a bit. After you've done that, it may make more sense to have the car just for one pass across Andalusia. It is helpful to have a car when you want to hit Arcos de la Frontera.

Posted by
2267 posts

This itinerary looks like a shopping list and doesn't seem to leave space for simply enjoying where you are: wandering old neighborhoods, having a long lunch, 7pm vermuts on a terassa.

And there's almost no point going to Madrid if you're spending so little time there.

Posted by
6568 posts

For the Ávila day, I’d drive to Segovia first then make a short stop at Ávila since you need to drive past it on the way to Salamanca if taking the interstate. As acraven said, the walls are what people go there to see. There’s little else there. A good view of the walls is from the Cuatro Postes overlook just outside of town. I estimate less than 4 hours of driving. Segovia is 1.25 hours from Madrid and Salamanca is 2 hours from it. Then you need to add time for getting turned around and finding parking. The road from Madrid up to Segovia has tolls as does the one over to Salamanca.

The drive from Salamanca to Sevilla is about 5 hours. Hopefully you’ll stop en route at either Cáceres, Trujillo, Mérida, or possibly Zafra.

To me you don’t need a full day in either Arcos de la Frontera or Tarifa. Arcos is good for an hour or so, and after living in that part of Spain years ago, I have no idea what must see sight there are in Tarifa. It’s another 2 hour stop at most, to me.

Pensícola is an interesting choice and is seldom mentioned on the forum. If you visit it, its castle was used in the 1960s movie El Cid.

I like the places you’ve chosen. It’s a shame you don’t can’t spend more time in some of them. As you’ll be renting a car, parking in cities will cost probably between 15-20€ a night. Once you have a firmed up plan, look up public parking lots in the places you intend on visiting and save them on Google maps or a GPS. Download the maps for offline use. Also remember to get an International Driving Permit from AAA before going over. There are speed cameras throughout the country, so stay at or just below the posted limit. There is no grace speed over the limit before getting a ticket.

Posted by
8 posts

@acraven- thank you so much for your feedback and we will definitely incorporate Cordoba- again, thank you. @Jameelsabio, thanks to you too for your feedback. Because of your input, I will be altering much of this plan. This was the 1st go around based off all the series I watched of SR in Spain and other sites. I will definitely amend, THANK YOU. I'm looking for this kind of feedback to help vs. sassy responses. I'm no travel expert and want to make the most of our trip. Again, thank you so much and look forward to more feedback as well. I will be posting a revised plan after I make another go around...

Posted by
8 posts

***Revised #2

A couple notes- decided to fly back home from Barcelona instead of taking train back to Madrid. Not renting a car in Madrid, but rather when we leave to go to Segovia, we will pick it up then. Extended our stay in Madrid to adjust to jet lag but also to have a slower pace there to see more. A quick drive thru Avila. Skipped Tarifa entirely unless we decide to make a quick stop. I understand Toledo at night is beautiful, so decided to stay the night in Toledo. Is staying two nights in Cordoba ample? Plan on making several stops in Salamanca. Malaga and Valencia are must-stops as we are considering moving there in the near future. Trying to decide if I should include Arcos or not, thoughts? As soon as we arrive in Barcelona, we will return car at that point. Thank you again for the kind help and suggestions as I continue to build this plan.

15-Apr LAX-MAD

16-Apr Madrid

17-Apr Madrid

18-Apr Madrid/Segovia

19-Apr Avila/Salamanca

20-Apr Salamanca/Toledo

21-Apr Cordoba

22-Apr Cordoba

23-Apr Sevilla

24-Apr Sevilla

25-Apr Arcos/Malaga

26-Apr Nerja/Granada

27-Apr Granada

28-Apr Valencia

29-Apr Valencia/Peniscola/Barcelona

30-Apr Barcelona

1-May Barcelona

2-May BCN-LAX

Posted by
8 posts

@Nick- thank you so much for your suggestions and will definitely consider them. Again, thank you for taking the time to write!

Posted by
6568 posts

A couple places with windmills are Consuegra and Campo de Criptana. When driving from Toledo to Córdoba, Consuegra is right off the CM-42 just before reaching the E-5 where you’d head south. There are some windmills and a castle there. They can be seen from the road and are easy to get to. For Campo de Criptana you’d stay on the CM-42 going past the E-5 for about another 15 minutes. It too is easy to reach. The windmills at Campo de Criptana are the giants in Cervantes’ Don Quixote.

Posted by
27154 posts

Nick, I think that must be a typo: Cuenca--though a very interesting place--is not on the way from Salamanca to either Cordoba or Seville. Perhaps you meant Caceres? It's a great place, but I just don't see that there's time for a stop there.

Jaice, since you've explained you're considering a possible relocation to Malaga or Valencia, I think you need to drop Arcos. It adds 1 hr. 45 min. of driving time that day, and in Arcos you'll need to park down below the historic center and walk up. I don't think that's going to be just a one-hour stop. In your situation I'd want as much time in Malaga as possible.

Although I imagine Peniscola is a charming place, my feeling is that you either really want to see Barcelona or you don't. If yes, I'd drop Peniscola in a NY minute. If you're not all that interested in Barcelona (which I love), then I highly recommend dropping it from this trip and redistributing those two nights elsewhere, assuming you are not forced into departing from that city.

So much of this trip would be more easily done via express train. It's not like you really have time to wander off the direct route to see things with the car, unless you think a small town somewhere is going to be more interesting than places like Toledo, Seville and Granada. A big advantage of taking trains is that you can pack a nice picnic lunch and eat on the way, which can save quite a bit of time in transit--and you have a very large number of travel days on this itinerary.

For what it's worth, Valencia has rapid rail service not only to Barcelona but also to Madrid (via the aforementioned Cuenca, incidentally). The one indirect-by-public-transportation segment is Granada-Valencia.

Since your trip is coming up pretty quickly, you need to be aware of some sights for which you'll need to get tickets before the day you arrive in town, assuming you want to see their interiors. The urgency varies by sight; in many cases it will probably be OK to get the tickets online just a very few days in advance, but at least for the Alhambra, I think that would be risky.

These are the places for which we usually recommend people not just show up without tickets:

Granada: Alhambra (used to sell out months in advance)

Seville: Alcazar and cathedral. (See Rick's guide on how to deal with the cathedral.)

Cordoba: Mezquita (might or might not have a significant ticket line).

Madrid: Palacio Real might possibly have a somewhat-annoying ticket line; it wasn't a problem for me in 2015.

Barcelona: Parc Guell [update: ticket machine now at park], La Sagrada Familia, Casa Batllo, Casa Mila/La Pedrera, Picasso Museum and Palau de la Musica Catalana.

As you can see from that Barcelona list, a large number of sights in that city are so popular that you must get tickets ahead of time. Those are all timed tickets. It is impossible to figure out precisely how much time to allow for each sight, so there's a limit to how many you can prudently plan to visit on one day. This is one reason why I think you are going to have severe time problems in Barcelona. You're not going to be able to just take any random tickets you can get during your short 1-1/2 days in the city; some of the only-available tickets might be for overlapping time periods.

Edited to add:

I almost forgot this: You have many in-transit stops planned. You must protect the possessions you leave in your car. Spain has a problem with thefts from tourists' cars. All the valuables you aren't going to carry with you should already be locked in the trunk when you pull into a parking lot. Do not open the trunk at that point; someone may be watching.

I would have a backpack (lockable) or tote bag to carry with me. It would contain expensive electronics, cameras and anything mission-critical (like prescription medications). I'd have back-up ATM cards and credit cards in something like a money belt.

Posted by
7679 posts

18-Apr Avila/Segovia/Salamanca
We did a day trip using the train from Madrid to see Segovia. We used up most of the day doing that. Segovia is a great place to visit, so is Avila and Salamanca, but this is too much in one day. I know you have the next full day in Salamanca, but wait, you plan to be in Seville (way in the south of the country) the next day. Taking the train will probably take you back through Madrid (not sure about that). Have you planned your trip by planning the transportation and running a search for how to get from Salamanca to Seville? I suspect it might take the better part of a day.

22-Apr Arcos
23-Apr Tarifa
24-Apr Malaga

I haven't been to Arcos or Tarifa, but make real sure that those are worth visiting. Have you done the research. I have been to Malaga and wasn't impressed that much. Compared to Barcelona, Seville, Toledo, Cordoba and Madrid area, Malaga is toast.

Granada is grand, especially the Alhambra

Valencia is good, but you have too much on your itinerary and again, run a trial train ride from Malaga to Valencia and Valencia to Barcelona.

As for going to Barcelona for the train ride to Madrid. Note, the train is a high speed train and I have taken a few high speed trains. The trains go so fast if you look at the countryside too much you might get travel sickness. Sorry, I don't recommend going there just for the train ride.

Generally, you need more time in Barcelona and Seville.

Posted by
6788 posts

I would say Arcos is absolutely worth a visit -- in fact, the best way to see it is to arrive afternoon, spend the night there (stay up top in the high town, but leave you car parked in a lot below, take a taxi up/down), then move on the next day. After the crowds of day-trippers predictably and reliably drain out, it's absolutely magical in the evening and early morning. Same goes for Toledo.

Beat the crowds, enjoy what it's like without over-tourism by staying the night. Works in so many of the wonderful places that are being loved-to-death.

Posted by
27154 posts

Thanks, Bill. I'll make a mental note of the change so I don't make that mistake again.

I sure hope it's not one of those really rare European ticket-vending machines that doesn't like US credit cards.

Posted by
1530 posts

Fellow posters,
The Spain forum is my favorite RS site due to the passion and expertise ya'll provide. Truly this forum is a happy place for me. Our daughter has emerged from a traumatic medical event and she loves Spain. I am now reading your posts to her to provide positive engagement and hope for her someday return to Spain. You folks have no idea of how your input is helping people meet their travel needs and inspire healing for our daughter.
Thank you from my heart to yours.
Steven

Posted by
7307 posts

Hi, I will add a link to our trip report, so you can see what we did in several of the locations where you are going. It says in the report, but I will add that we just used trains & a couple of buses for the entire trip, so there’s plenty of opportunity to take a train. And as Acraven mentioned, it does save time to be able to bring a small lunch & be ready to go when you arrive at the next location.

We were at Cordoba for one night, and for us that was the right amount of time. I would take any extra time to add to Sevilla.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/1st-time-to-spain-trip-report

Posted by
6522 posts

I'd normally recommend two nights in Cordoba so you have one full day there, but with all you want to do on this trip I think one night would be enough. Try to stay in the Jewish Quarter where the Mezquita is.

Steven, good thoughts for you and your daughter. I hope things go well.

Posted by
544 posts

You're really covering a lot of territory and using up valuable vacation time driving in the car. Plus there are a lot of one-night stops which also use up valuable time. Since you've been to Barcelona several times in the past, I'd suggest you take out the Valencia though Barcelona parts of your itinerary. I would add a day to the Avila-Segovia-Salamanca part of the trip. From there you could visit Trujillo, Caceres and Merida as you travel south toward Sevilla. Use at least one of those towns for an overnight stop. If you've not been in Southern Spain previously, I'd consider taking out the Arco- through Nerja part of the itinerary and instead focus on Sevilla, Granada, and Cordoba. This will allow more time for actual sight-seeing. You could drop the car in Cordoba and take the highs-speed train back to Madrid. You didn't mention when you are traveling but I'd point out that parts of Spain are very cold in Winter and very hot in Summer, so keep that in mind as you plan your itinerary. Happy travels!