N. Spain itinerary

Seems a little busy to me, but I’ll let others comment on that. I do like that you seem to have 2 nights in most places. I think that you’re underestimating how much you’ll like some of the places you’ll be visiting and may be rushing them somewhat. Last year I thought we’d spend about an hour in Cangas de Onis, but ended up walking around for almost 3 hours before continuing up to Covadonga where we spent a couple hours and we didn’t do any hiking. However, I feel you’ve grossly underestimated the driving time it will take to get to some of the more popular rural locations based on the time of year you’re going. Sticking with Cangas de Onis, once off the interstate you’ll be on some very rural roads that twist and turn throughout the mountains. Picos de Europa is very popular for outdoor activities and a busy area even off season. Since it will be summer, there may very well be a lot of traffic along the north coast near Ribadesella and over to Comillas. When you narrow your route down somewhat, research the roads you’ll be driving. The green E, or blue A roads (followed by 1 or 2 numbers) are interstates. If followed by a P (peaje) it’s a toll road (e.g., AP) The red N roads are fine too, will frequently parallel the interstates, but will go through all the small towns. All the roads beginning with 2-letters are regional roads and the letters designate the region you’re in. The more numbers there are following the letters, the more rural the road is. While most are in good repair, they twist and turn, and are 2-lanes. Watch your speed, especially entering and leaving small towns, since most have traffic cameras. 2kph (1.2mph) over will probably get you a ticket.

The cathedral in Leon is nice, I prefer the one in Burgos where the tomb of El CID is. While the roads around Loarre castle and Olite are rural, most tourists don’t make It to those places, and you’ll probably have the roads pretty much to yourself. Between the castle and Olite is the small town of Sos del Rey Catolico. It’s like walking back in time. Just north and west of Olite is Puente la Reina. Just before it in Muruzabal is the small chapel out in a field, Iglesia de Santa Maria Eunate. A couple miles from it, on the Camino de Santiago is Alto de Perdon. Each would be a short stop, but worth it.

Last, if using a GPS it will misinterpreted the letters on the road signs. For example, AS for Asturias was pronounced as American Samoa by the GPS, AL for Almeria was Alabama, CO for Córdoba was Colorado, etc.

Thank you so much Jaime for your detailed response. I love the detail about the roads! I may well be underestimating driving times. I google- mapped them all, but after my experience traveling last summer with Goole maps, I should know better and take what it says with a huge grain of salt. We are traveling with kids, and find that they have only so much stamina for cultural things, so we limit solid plans to two/day, and then hope they have more stamina. I agree that I will probably like places and wish to stay, but Im erring on the side of wishing for that rather than feeling ready to move on but having one more night in a place. Im ok with dropping plans (so if we ended up walking around Congas de Onis rather than hiking to the lakes, thats ok. In fact, a lot of what we are doing in the Picos may get simplified, as we are more mountain types, so have a LOT of time spent in various mountain ranges hiking and adventuring. I think the kids would be more interested in stand-up paddle boarding or whatever, while I could walk around the village and sites near a beach and we could all get something we want.
Im ambivalent about San Seb (but Im curious about it so one full day+ should satisfy that), and after more reading, Im feeling a little ambivalent about Oviedo. Right now the schedule has us there for 2 nights and up to 2 days, and Im wondering why. Would it be crazy to spread more of that time in the northeast or towns east. Can someone here convince me of an alternate or to hold onto it?

I think you may have excess time in Oviedo. It has some extremely old churches (car helpful here) and an attractive historic center, but it is not a lively place. One night and essentially one day might do it. And Ribadesella, the previous stop, is quite small. Perhaps I missed something, but I don't know how you'd fill a full day there.

I think you're short on time in Bilbao, which I liked more than San Sebastian. It has a larger historic district than SS and is far less touristy. It appears that most folks just go to the Guggenheim.

Be prepared for blistering heat in Zaragoza.

Thanks Acraven. Your points are ones I have been thinking about already, but its helpful to hear it from you! I was imagining getting into SS late in the day, so we'd end up with one full day, and depart after breakfast the following morning. But you're right, Im having a hard time imagining what that day will entail. SS is not a place that is usually our cup of tea, but for a day it could be ok (although I am also mindful that it is the most expensive place to stay, so two nights there for that one full day is unfortunate timing). Im mapping out how I could spend one night in Oviedo and add a night back into the coast, maybe in the Picos. At this point Im fussing with details, but I wanted to see what you all thought about the timing, and so far its been very helpful to hear about the potentially slower pace in the Picos, and that my gut is maybe on track about Oviedo. Thanks--

Oh, I think you can occupy yourselves for a day in San Sebastian. The walk along the coast is lovely, there's the San Telmo Museum, you can go tapas-hopping twice. I enjoyed wandering around the less-touristy section of town east of the river. I imagine, though, that you'll be able to leave the next morning if you want to.

Thanks acraven. I am having such a challenging time sorting through this but your input is very valuable (I have read so many of your posts). It occurs to me that we may want to do more of the 'big' things and less lingering (breadth over depth). We have 3 tw/eens with us, and find that having a specific target keeps their momentum (so we may want to 'wander' a village, but not do that a lot). The other thing that occurred to me is that we like to see and experience things that are outside our norm, and that means bigger towns/cities and culture. We have twenty days. Several of those (3 or 4) will be in BCN at the end. After several more drafts from the first one above, I have changed a lot. Without having plotted nights and exact timing of visits (although I have looked at driving times), I would appreciate your thoughts about this, and anyone else's too ;p
I cut Oviedo altogether. I originally had 3 days in BCN and am leery of adding another, as I do here. Im also considering cutting Lllanes and maybe adding night to San Seb and taking a day trip to Hondaribbia.
Anyway, Ill stop typing now. Thanks so much for you help!

1 - Loarre, Olite, etc. sleep Navarra
2 - Navarra. to San Seb. Sleep San Seb
3 - SS. Sleep San Seb
4 - Basque coast day. Sleep Bilboa.
5 - Bilbao. Sleep Bilbao
6 - Coast villages to Llanes, Sleep Llanes
7 - Drive Llanes to Poncebos. Hike Rute de Cares. Sleep Cangas de Onis
8 - Covadonga day. Sleep C de O again?
9 - Ovieto? Cudillero? Sleep Cudillero?
10 - Drive coast west with beach stop. Arrive Santiago de Compotelo late. Sleep Santiago
11 - Santiago. Sleep Santiago
12 - Drive to Leon. Arrive afternoon. Sleep Leon.
13 - Morning Leon. Drive to Burgos. Sleep Burgos
14 - Burgos (?). Sleep Burgos
15 - Drive to Zaragoza. Sleep Zara
16 - Zaragoza. afternoon train to BCN. Sleep BCN
17 - BCN
18 - BCN
19 - BCN
20 - BCN
21 - a.m. depart BCN for home

I'm a huge fan of Barcelona (love that modernista architecture, and the museums). I don't think you'll regret your time there. It's hard to do quick trips there because so many sights require pre-purchased, timed tickets. The more days you have, the more sights can be the first of the day, which reduces the need for back-to-back scheduling. I regret the deletion of Girona from the itinerary; it's one of my favorite not-capital cities. But perhaps you'll fall in love with Barcelona and decide to re-visit in the future, at which point you can spend some time in Girona and other places in Catalunya.

As for other places, I spend a lot of time just absorbing the atmosphere by way of observing building exteriors. And I like art museums. I don't do sporty things and am not so interested in historical sights unless they also happen to be very pretty (but I don't really care for palace interiors). So our focuses seem quite different.

I think a day-trip to Hondarribia is worthwhile, and whether you decide to drive or hop on a bus, it's something you can remain flexible on, reacting to things like the weather. The Basque countryside is--aside from mountain landscapes--the prettiest I've seen in Spain, so if time permits it's perhaps worth taking some small detours when you're out and about. A quite high percentage of the rural roads in the Basque Country are scenic.

The extremely picturesque (but also extremely touristy) little medieval village of Santillana del Mar is between Santander (a large city of which I am definitely not a fan) and Llanes. The village itself may not be appealing to you, but are you aware of the Altamira Caves nearby? That's the sort of place I have to accept I will probably never see, because I don't rent cars in Europe. What you can see today is a replica cave, supposedly a good one, and a museum. Perhaps this would appeal to your family. I am not sure what the visiting procedures are. For many caves, and even replica caves, you don't just drive up, buy a ticket and walk right in.

I'm not sure what route you plan to take between Cudillero and Santiago de Compostela. If you haven't checked out ViaMichelin.com, I recommend doing that. If you zoom in on the map you'll see that there's a road that squiggles all over the place, basically parallel to the highway. The highway driving time is given (perhaps optimistically) at just over 3 hours. I cannot imagine what would happen if you chose to use the N-634, which runs closer to the coastline than the highway--maybe 10 hours?? The VM map, again if you zoom in, shows a number of intersecting roads in green, meaning they are especially scenic. (You'll observe that in the Basque Country too.) If you opt for the highway and have some extra time on that day, you might take a detour on one of those roads for lunch or a snack somewhere.

Not too long before you reach SdeC you will pass a highway cut-off heading to Betanzos, which is one of the many smaller towns I enjoyed. It's located on the way to A Coruna, a larger place I also found interesting. But SdeC does have quite a lot sights, all wrapped up in a large historic district. And the experience of visiting the church that is the goal of so many pilgrims to this day will be interesting. I suspect you will be able to fill your Galician time quite well in SdeC alone.

Ooh, acraven thank you for the info on the scenic roads
For what its worth, I too am someone who loves to absorb and just 'be' in a place wandering to do this, but my kids; ha! We have 3, ages 11, 14, and 16, and while the 16 yo travels like an older soul, the 14yo has a short attention span and so to ward off griping, I try to have a specific interest Im pursuing in a place. Then if I can milk the time to do more absorbing and strolling, I will!
Also, we are not skipping Girona! I left that off, but we do start there for two days and nights before departing for the north
And I would happily take public transportation, but with 5 ppl, a rental car is most cost effective. We will try to take trains when we can. Maybe from Leon or Burgos back to BCN with that stop in Zaragoza?
It sounds like Im on a better track (nothing glaring). Thank you

Just west of Ribadeo on the north coast is Praia de Augas Santas (cathedral beach). If you happen to be there at low tide you can walk on the beach under the rock arches. Between Ribadeo and cathedral beach, are a numbers of beaches, so expect a lot of traffic in the summer. The road number it’s off of is LU-P-6010. Parking was free when we visited. Further west is Cabo Ortegal, but out of the way if on your way to Santiago. It’s an overlook with fantastic views. Not sure about today, but wild horses used to frequent it. When we were in that area last year, we left SdeC, went west to the coast to visit Muxia, then drove to Ribadeo where were spent the night. I agree that Betanzos is worth visiting. From Santiago to Ribadeo is all interstate if you want it to be. Our GPS kept trying to get us to get off the A-8 and onto the N-634. From Cudillero to Santiago is only 129 miles, so you should have time for a couple stops. A couple miles east of Santiago is Monte do Gozo. At it is a monument to the pilgrims who walk the Camino de Santiago. From it, one gets a nice view of Santiago and the cathedral.

The drive from Santiago to Leon is about 200 miles and mostly interstate once you get nearer to Lugo. Watch you speed heading into Melide. A mile or so east of Melide is O Leboreiro (like a very small Santillana Del Mar). The sign to it is small and easily missed. It is 1km off of the N547 on a narrow road. It’s like time stood still. We made the drive between SdeC and Leon in two days, spending a night in Villafranca del Bierzo. There are a number of small places between Santiago and Leon that were interesting; most notably O Cebeiro, near Pedrafita do Cebreiro with its round Celtic huts and the church of Santa Maria. A couple miles further down that road (LU-633) is Alto San Roque. It’s a scenic overlook.

Per the Deutsche Bahn website, Leon to Burgos is only about 2 hours by train (there aren't that many each day, so check the timing), which is about the same as ViaMichelin's estimated driving time but without the hassles. Burgos to Zaragoza is over 4 hours by rail, slower than by car (in theory).

The train/bus station in Zaragoza is about a 30-minute walk from the historic district (15 minutes from the Moorish palace), though there seemed to be frequent city-bus service along that route. I mention this because of the likelihood of blistering heat during your travel period. I would avoid staying near the station unless you get an incredible deal at the EuroStars--which you might, because no Spaniard wants to go to Zaragoza in the summer--since that area is a food desert. There was some sort of little snack bar serving the train/bus station, but the hotel restaurant was offering only room service with quite limited options. The salads were OK, and I think there may have been something like a cheese plate. Avoid the frozen-and-reheated pizza.

I count 13 different beds in 23 nights. I would want to reduce this to a maximum of 10.
Barcelona for 4 nights.
San Sebastián for 3 nights.
8 other locations for 2 nights each.

This forum has been really helpful to plan our few days after the RS Basque Country Tour ends in Bilbao. We were planning to fly to SdeC, rent a car and make our way back to Bilbao via Orviedo, Leon & Burgos. However, I'm rethinking that as with this forum may just do a loop including Picos de Europe. We LOVED visiting the caves in the Dordogne, and I think Jessica, that if a site is on your route your kids would find it interesting. I found a website for prehistoric sites in Cantabria.... perhaps assign your 16- or 14-yo to check these out and see if they're interested? https://www.spain.info/en/reportajes/un_fascinante_viaje_al_interior_de_cantabria_de_el_soplao_a_altamira.html

travelpursell - thanks for the link. I am aware of those caves, and in fact, we too went to caves in the Dordogne two years ago. They were remarkable, and this one is in my back pocket list of "things to maybe do". They liked the caves but Im not sure it was something they want to repeat. My itinerary, or at least the activities within it, would look different if it were just me and hubby. I err on the side of what we want though ;)

djp_syd - Um, I believe I have 12 places in 22 days ;p
I have been mulling adding a night to SS and dropping one from BCN, but when I plot out what we want to do, I think 1 ½ days, 2 nights in SS is ok, and if we feel like we've seen enough of BCN, we will take a day trip. Currently Im thinking we will make some stops in northern Aragon (likely Alquezar and Castillo Loarre) on the 19th, find a place to sleep north of these, and then head for SS in the morning. But IM also considering making it a long day and arriving in SS late that night so we would have two full days
I appreciate your thoughts though; it got me thinking!

Hello, just to chime in, I see a lot of hours on the road here, one can lessen the load a bit by using the AVE high-speed train to get from Catalonia to Aragon. I put together my own version of a Northern Spain itinerary for 22 nights, incorporating some of the things on your list, as well as some of my own thoughts:

Fly in to Barcelona

Barcelona (4 nights) - Day trip to Montserrat
AVE high speed train to
Girona (2 nights) - Day trip to Dali Museum and House
AVE high speed train to Zaragoza via Barcelona Sants
Zaragoza (2 nights) - Day trip to Castillo de Loarre
Rent car and drive to San Sebastian, stopping at Palacio Real de Olite
San Sebastian (3 nights)
Scenic coastal drive to
Bilbao (2 nights)
Drive to
Santillana del Mar (1 night) - Visit nearby Altamira Caves museum
Drive to
Fuente Dé Parador (2 nights) - Visit Picos de Europa park and medieval town of Potes
Drive to
Cangas de Onís (1 night) - Visit Covadonga
Drive to
Leon (1 night)
Drive to
Burgos (1 night)
Drive to
Logroño (2 nights) Visit Rioja wineries, Bodegas Marques de Riscal
Drive to Zaragoza, drop off car, and take AVE to Barcelona
Barcelona (1 night)

Fly out of Barcelona

Thanks Carlos! One issue is that we are traveling with tw/eens, and are not big drinkers, so a winery is not high on the list of interests. Also, with five of us traveling, the car is most cost effective. We'd prefer traveling by train, and intend to return the car to Zaragoza and train into BCN, but I also enjoy seeing countries from the car, because we often take roads that public transport does not.

Our current thinking is
Girona (2). Rent car here, drive to BCN airport for additional traveler
San Seb (3). Arrive late after day of driving, stopping at Alquezar (maybe) and Loarre

... and then the rest of what I had above

We will have 4 days/5nt in BCN (or 3/4, and add that extra night into the current itinerary somewhere), with one day of that a trip to Montserrat...

Thanks everyone for your continued help!

... although maybe traveling in a car for three weeks with tw/eens is exactly why we should go to a winery ;p

@Jessica - yes, a good Rioja and a couple of days of downtime is just what one needs at the end of a whirlwind trip :)

A Segway winery tour in La Rioja maybe an interesting option, even if one does not drink. Marques de Riscal has a pretty cool winery close to Logroño, that was designed by the famous Frank Gehry, which is also a luxury hotel/spa.

There are also some quaint medieval villages in area that are worth exploring. For example, 20 minutes north of Logroño is the quaint hill town of Laguardia.

Another vote for Laguardia.

Day
1. Fly in to Bilbao (2 nts)
2. Bilbao
3. Bus to San Sebastián (3 nts)
4. San Sebastián
5. (Pick up hire car) Day to Hondaribbia
6. Drive to Laguardia (1 nt)
7. Drive to Santillana del Mar (1 nt)
8. Drive to Picos de Europa (2 nts)
9. Picos de Europa
10. Drive to Oviedo (2 nts)
11. Oviedo
12. Drive to Leon (2 nts)
13. Leon
14. Drive to Lugo (1 nt)
15. Drive to Santiago de Compostela (2 nts)
16. (Return hire car) Santiago de Compostela
17. Fly from Santiago de Compostela to Barcelona (4 nts)
18. Barcelona
19. Barcelona
20. Barcelona
21. Depart Barcelona

I really appreciate the input. I have been weighing your ideas against the draft Im currently holding onto. I know I have a lot of driving planned, and I know that once Im on the road it may feel more onerous than it does in my imagination, but we are seasoned road-trippers (last summer my son and hubby took 3 weeks to drive to BC, and I believe the longest stay they did was 4 nts. in Whistler, otherwise it was 1 night stays the whole way out and back...and they slept in the back of the minivan!).
So Im hoping experience will prevail, and we are excited to see the notable stops, more so than I realized when I started planning the trip. I see both David and Carlos cut out Santiago de Compostelo, whereas I got excited when I decided to cut Oviedo in favor of S de C. Yes its more driving, but in my research and imagined day[s] in Oviedo, I just wasn't getting excited (although Id love to see the frescos...). Santiago interests me more. We really dont mind one night stays (as an example, when we went to the Peloponnese, we spent 8 nights, staying in different places 3, 2, 1, 1, and 1 night[s] in that order, and we did not wish to prolong any of those stays). The fact is, I wish I had one more week to add a few of the things you mention (Laguardia/Logrono). Im actually wondering if I should have a huge driving day after departing from S de C, stop in Leon for lunch, and proceed to Burgos, and then have 3 nights spread over Burgos and Logrono.

@David - we have tickets already, flying in and out of BCN. We are budget travelers, which is how we are able to do this at all, and found tickets that worked for us in/out BCN. Shrug

So what I am weighing now is:

• long drive + lunch and an ooh-ah at the cathedral in Leon in favor of staying 2 nights in Logorono

-Time in BCN at the end - currently 5 nt/4 full days - wondering if I should have it 4 nt/3 full days, and if I did 4nt/3, and then plug that night into the itinerary somewhere

I adored Barcelona and spent 10 days there without seeing everything (and without going to Montserrat; only took a side-trip to Sitges). But I spent a great deal of time tracking down modernista buildings, far beyond what a typical visitor would do. And I also went to a bunch of art museums. I'm not suggesting that 10 days would be right for most visitors.

The thing you have to understand about Barcelona is that visitor levels have gotten incredibly high, and there are at least 6 major sights that require advance purchase of timed tickets (if you wish to see them). It's difficult to visit a city efficiently when you have to lock down so many entrance times in advance, not knowing how much time you'll actually want to spend at each place. You're likely to end up with snippets of time in between that aren't terribly productive. And it's not like there aren't other things you'll want to see, beyond those specific sights.

So for me, 3 days is a real problem. However, if you think you'll be satisfied going inside just one or two of the modernista buildings (I'd start with La Sagrada Familia), you can get by with 3 days.

It matters to me that you're going to have a car for a big chunk of this trip. A car makes visiting northern Spain outside Barcelona-Girona much easier, and one could argue that you should optimize use of the car on this trip. It's easier to go back to Barcelona for a few days as part of your next trip to Europe, then fly on to another destination, than to travel back to Spain to visit places like Burgos or Santiago de Compostela, not to mention the many small towns you have on your itinerary. Actually, I'd have no problem with a trip that totally excluded Barcelona on that basis. But then I spent 89 days in France in 2017 and didn't manage to get to Paris.

acraven - when we went to Rome, we got timed tickets for everything (Colosseum, Vatican, Borghese) and visited 1-2 timed things per day. Do you think getting tickets now for August will still be very restricted? (I know you have a thread about this, Ill have to go back and check it)

Me again ;p

Ive plotted out a plan that I am mostly content with.
Remaining is 4 nights, 5 days to get from SdeC to BCN. I had in mind León (1), Burgos (2), Zaragoza (1) (arriving late to BCN via train). But it occurs to me that SdeC to BCN via Toledo is the same travel time. I know Toledo is hotter than Hades at that time (end July-beg. Aug), but we've travelled in temps of 34-38 (93-100) on parts of most trips, and our home town in August is the same. It is brutal, but then again, it would only be for a few days (unless the whole trip is sweltering and then its only for a few days of broiling before heading for the coast).

So, how would you use those 4 nights/5 days between SdeC - BCN?

I adore Toledo, but the heat... I, personally, would stay north.

As to the Barcelona sights, I don't think you've got any problem with the standard tourist stops. You've got lots of time. The Camp Nou (soccer) Experience--which I know nothing about--probably sells out way ahead of time, but I have no reason to think that you need to rush to get tickets for any of the modernista sights or the Picasso Museum. All the ones I've checked (which is most of them at one time or another) have ticket calendars on their websites, so you can spot-check from time to time to see whether anything looks like it is selling out early. Just don't show up in town for just a few days without those tickets. The recent reports suggest that could go very, very badly. There has been a huge shift since my 2015 visit, unfortunately.