March trip with 11 and 14 year old

So without checking or knowing exact departure times for trains or flights, with 9 days (assuming the other 2 days are for travel to Spain and back home?), my initial gut sense is: Madrid 3 days, fast train (or cheap Vueling flight?) to Barcelona for 3 days, then Vueling flight to Seville for 2 days, last full day back to Madrid for flight home the following day.

As wonderful as the immense Prado museum is in Madrid, the Thyssen-Bornemisza museum in Madrid is smaller, maybe more manageable, and still contains centuries worth of amazing art.

This is all assuming you’re not renting a car, but day trips by train or bus from Madrid are possible to Toledo, the former capitol of Spain, where kings had their castle (now military museum the kids might find of interest) plus a magnificent cathedral, or the wonderful town of Segovia, which boasts an immense aqueduct from ancient Roman times, plus a special castle of its own.

Definitely train rather than plane between Madrid and Barcelona unless you're making the trip the same day you're arriving from home or returning home, when you'll need to be at the airport anyway. AVE times vary but are usually between 2.5 and 3 hours, city center to city center.

In laying out the itinerary, remember that the arrival day will probably be rather worthless because some of you will most likely be sleep-deprived and jetlagged. Allow extra time at the first stop. Also, you'll need to be back in Madrid the night before you fly home, so to avoid two separate hotel stays there (a time-waster), try really hard to move on to one of your other destinations on flight-arrival day. Unfortunately, figuring out the timing of that travel leg is difficult, and if you decide to wait until arrival to buy onward train tickets, you'll probably pay full price and encounter some sold-out trains. I don't know what to suggest, strategically.

Folks who don't love art often prefer Barcelona to Madrid by a considerable margin. So do some of us who do love art. I think Barcelona is difficult for those interested in the modernista architecture if they don't have at least 3.5 non-jetlagged days there, but people's interests vary. To me Seville needs at least 2.5 non-jetlagged days. With excess time I'd rather add it to one of those cities or spend a day in Cordoba rather than in Madrid aside from the art museums (personal taste).

Apologies for not being a futbol fan, so I don't know what city you may need to be in for a game. . . . or how you'd get tickets. Maybe one of our local members is an aficiando and can help. Bullfights are usually around festivals, March is probably too early.

If you leave home on the 4th and fly back on the 14th, you have 9 nights in Spain, which means 8 full days. Even if you arrive in the morning, by the time you get through the airport, into the city and drop your luggage at your hotel it will be early afternoon and you'll have to deal with jetlag so the first day you can't see or do much. You might as well just take the train to either Sevilla (2.5 hours) or Barcelona (3 hours) from the Madrid (not airport) train station, since you will want to be back in Madrid by the 13th so you are close to the airport. Unless you have a evening flight out, all you'll be doing on the 14th is packing and heading to the airport. You'll use about 1/2 day going back to Madrid, so you're down to 7 full days. If you add the 3rd city, you'll lose another half day, maybe more since the train between Sevilla and Barcelona is 5.5 to 6 hours, tack on an hour at each end just to pack and get to/from the train station to your hotel - that's about 8 hours. That leaves you with 6 full days to see 3 cities.

The 6th is your first full day, going to a game on the 8th means spending 3 full days in that city, to avoid the 8th being a travel day.

Visiting Spain doesn't mean that you have to watch a bullfight to experience Spanish culture, many Spaniards are thoroughly against the horrifically barbaric practice and in Catalonia it has been banned. If you do want to watch such savagery can I suggest that you read the following before you make a decision:

https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-in-entertainment/cruel-sports/bullfighting/

You're right that 8/March should be good for seeing a La Liga match. Currently, all three cities have one of their teams playing at home that day (Betis, Atletico M and Barcelona). Plus there is also Getafe near Madrid. Interestingly, if you want to be an away supporter, Sevilla are playing in Madrid, and Real M are playing in Seville but Espanyol are playing in the north so not practical.

Just a warning that fixtures can change for TV timing. And in this case, the round of 16 for the Champions League starts on 10/3 so that could affect plans - I think they usually move the La Liga match to the following Saturday if one of the teams is involved in Champions League match. So you need to keep track / make a judgement when you get to buying the tickets. Barca or either main Madrid team could still be in the Champions League at that stage.

Don't forget there is second (segunda) division which might be worth considering as well.

Thank you all for this. Very helpful. I have digested everything and change the arrival into a Barcelona so that’s one less issue. I also think the place to eliminate/shorten to maximize the time is Madrid. Here is where I am at currently thinking (though it changes hourly).

3/5 fly to Barcelona
3/6 Barcelona
3/7 Barcelona
3/8 Barcelona - Barça game at night (if able to get tickets and date doesn’t change- any insight on when this game will be for sale or if it is already)

I have read about cooking classes in Barcelona. I think my daughter would love this. Any recommendations for places for this?

3.9 Fly morning to Seville
3/10 Seville
3/11 slow driving day ending in Tarifa or somewhere nearby (exact spots along route still TBD perhaps white villages/Ronda or Jerez/Cádiz or Doñana or camenito del Rey). Need to research this further.
3/12 Morning ferry and private tour to Tangier (I’ve read the numerous reviews positive and negative and am confident my kids would be very interested). Drive back to Seville at night at same place.
3/13 Seville
3/14 train to Madrid; 4pm flight out of Madrid

To risky to train back the same day as flight out? Other comments/suggestions?

Thanks again

Tarifa is humdrum, and Tangiers, while much improved in recent years, is not the best that Morocco has to offer. A day tour avoids the main issue, which is the persistent touts, but could be very rushed and will include mandatory shopping stops.
So if the plan is to skip Madrid, I'd replace Tangiers with Granada. The Alhambra will impress any 11 or 14 year old.
Optimal way is Barcelona - Granada (fly) - Sevilla (drive via Ronda, Grazalema, Zahara if you wish!) - train to Madrid.
With a 4pm flight I would consider taking the train on the same day, given that Spanish high speed railways have an excellent ontime record...but you'd have to take an early train to minimize risk. In that case, I'd just take a train out of Seville at 6.30 or 7pm the day before and thus reach Madrid for dinner at the usual crazy Spanish hour.

3/12 Morning ferry and private tour to Tangier (I’ve read the numerous reviews positive and negative and am confident my kids would be very interested). Drive back to Seville at night at same place.

My kids are the exact same ages as yours and they simply didn't find Tangier interesting. We had a private guide, he was very good but there's a limit to what you can do with a place like Tangier. Probably the most enjoyable part was a stop in the woodland overlooking Tangier where the wealthy and elite live. At this stop we enjoyed a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice from a roadside stall. Be aware however that there's no refrigeration and no ice so the juice is air temperature.

My eldest likes architecture so he found parts of the Kasbah interesting, my youngest didn't. It's quite neglected, dirty and full of graffiti. We were then taken to see a snake 'charmer' who was conveniently located outside our restaurant with a bag of snakes whose sole purpose was to be tormented in the name of entertainment for tourists, we politely declined and made our way to the restaurant. I was looking forward to the food as the place was evidently popular (it turns out many of the guides bring their clients here) however we were all disappointed with the mediocrity of it all.

The kids were bored stiff of the souks and I wasn't impressed either. Once you've been in one souk you've been in them all and being harrassed to buy very overpriced tat is not what I want to experience.

The caves of hercules were interesting but there are far better caves in Spain.

Be mindful that the ferries are frequently cancelled due to high winds across the Strait of Gibraltar.

It's a very long day and I wouldn't contemplate driving back to Seville that night, a journey of well over 2 hours., which I know isn't long for many Americans but it isn't long, straight interstate driving, it's windy, unlit mountain roads that you will be unfamiliar with. I drove back to Estepona which is less than an hour and that was a struggle plus I was familiar with much of the route.

I think your kids will find Gibraltar more interesting.

ViaMichelin.com estimates the driving time from Seville to Tarifa at 2-1/2 hours without any traffic, detours, stopping, getting lost, looking for parking or walking between your possibly-inconvenient parking place and what you actually want to see. Driving through the white villages can be much slower than expected if you get behind a slow vehicle. Be very careful about your plans.

It's not that going to Tarifa is less interesting than sitting on your couch at home, but travel is about trade-offs, and you are choosing to spend most of 2 days on the excursion while skipping Granada snd Cordoba. Very few, if any, of us who have been to all three places would recommend that.

9 days, I would eliminate one of your destinations.

Regarding kids traveling in Europe. I lived overseas for a total of 9 years when my kids ranged between 5 and teenage.

We toured pretty much like we would if we had no kids. Still, I can remember carrying my young son on my shoulders at the end of the day because he was so tired.

Your kids are 11 and 14. They are old enough to be exposed to the history, art and culture of the places you visit. I would give my teens a book to read about the country we were visiting (to read prior to the trip). All my kids are in their 40s now and love to travel.

I do remember some of the things that they really enjoyed: gondola ride in Venice, the Eiffel Tower, Sistine Chapel.