Leaving out a stop in Granada??

As our host often writes, "assume you will return". He might say that Barcelona is more important than Granada, but I would rank them equally - that is, Granada is more important than it's relative size might indicate.

I found Jerez to be a waste, unless you like Sherry. Consider Carmona and Italica instead. Ronda does not have an H in it.

Although I have only been to the Malaga airport (and have seen "Sexy Beast" with Ben Kingsley), I think driving to Malaga is probably a waste of time. If you're not going on to the East coast, you might as well fly out of Madrid. Our daytrip drive from Ronda to Gibraltar was slow and hot and annoying. If you can fly out of Barcelona, go there and skip Granada. BTW, we found flying out (not Transatlantic) of Granada to be easy and useful. I think we went to Compostela that way. Don't be tempted by Bilbao.

I agree that Madrid is easily worth four days. About Toledo, I'd just say that there are lots of medieval towns in Europe. You should determine if you WANT to see Toledo, or the Alcazar or the Valley of the Fallen or Avila or Segovia or what ... Be sure to check about seasonal (???) closings - I've never been to Spain in November.

Your itin sounds gd. Driving can be tiring so missing Granada this time is a gd decision. I enjoyed my visit but I prefer Seville over Granada if i have to choose.

I am going to add to the concept of travel as if you will return. Madrid and Barcelona...and even Malaga for that matter are easy and sometime direct flights from North America. To my mind that means easy to return to in their own right, or an easy in one and out the other. Granada, on the other hand means a conscious internal trip to get to. So, my suggestion is to make this an Andalucia trip removing from Madrid and adding in Granada, or at the least, dropping Toledo to add Granada.
Ultimately decision is yours and there is no wrong decison, but I wanted to offer an alternative consideration.

Here are my thoughts . . . well, opinions really.

Madrid is the least interesting of all your cities to visit, in large part (for me) because it doesn't have the centuries of history (sights and architecture) of all the others. Its main draw is painting - 3 top-notch museums. Note that unlike other major art museums, these collections are almost entirely paintings, medieval to modern. Madrid is also very easy to fit into just about any Spanish itinerary - it's only 2.5 hours by train to Barcelona, so I would put it aside for your next trip.

Toledo I like Cordoba marginally better and Cordoba is my favorite Spanish city. Given your limited time, it's more efficient to stay in Cordoba. Cordoba is about 3/4 of an hour less travel time by train from Madrid than Sevilla is, so I'd consider going there right at the start. It has a large, well-preserved medieval section including the Juderia, parts of the old city walls and the Mezquita. 2 nights.

Sevilla You can get door-to-door from Cordoba to Sevilla is about 1.5 hours and trains are frequent. You have the choice of spending most of your travel day in Cordoba (evening train) or getting an early start and having a nearly full day in Sevilla. You can see the main sights in 1.5 days. You could day-trip to Jerez/Arcos. The best thing in Jerez is the show at the Royal Equestrian School (around 11.00-noon, only a couple days a week). The Tio Pepe sherry bodega tour is fun. From the Jerez train station, take the bus to Arcos and explore for 1/2 day (use the RS self-guided walking tour). 3-4 nights.

Ronda Leave Sevilla in the morning and you'll have lots of time to explore the hill towns on the way to Ronda. Use your full day to see the sights in Ronda and hike down to the Gorge, or spend a few hours exploring more hill towns. Sunset's between 6-6.30 pm in November. 2 nights

Granada I would put this back on the itinerary. There's a reason it's the top sight in Spain. Also Granada is fairly difficult to fit into an itinerary because of its location. If fitting it when you are seeing nearby places isn't convenient, think how much less likely it will be to see it on your next trip to Spain. Leave Ronda early and you can hike for hours in El Torcal (near Antequera), If you aren't doing this on a Monday, stop on the way to El Torcal to see the prehistoric dolmens just outside Antequera. It's about 1.5 hours driving from Ronda, another 1.5 to Granada on mostly flat, divided highway. 2 nights.

By the way, Sevilla, Ronda and Granada also have historic medieval town centers.

Granada is my favorite city in Spain and s real contender for favorite, period, so I wouldn't leave it out. But this isn't my trip! It's yours and what you have makes sense for your stated priorities.

IF this were my trip I'd skip Ronda. If that's not an option, then I'd skip the night in Toledo, either doing it as a day from Madrid or skip it altogether. If skipping it altogether I'd cut Madrid down by a day. I'd also skip Jerez unless you love Sherry.

Re: Ronda hiking/park - my philosophy is that we have top notch hiking in the US so I save much of my hiking for domestic trips (and the Alps because they are singular). Hiking in Europe is lovely, I've done it on longer trips but I'd not cut something unique to Europe like Granada (or Toledo) for it unless the specific landscape is unique to that place. I don't find the area around Ronda meets that. It's beautiful and worth doing, but TO ME not worth skipping Toledo or Granada.

That said, this is your trip. Look at pictures, watch shows, read, see where draws you. Skip anything that doesn't pull at you regardless of what anyone says.

While Jerez is not a waste of time, I'm not certain it's worth a special drive from Sevilla. If you wanted to tour a sherry Bodega or the equestrian center, then go. If you like Roman ruins, then Italica (outside of Sevilla) would be a nice alternative. Toledo is worth a full day. I always stay at the Maria Cristina hotel, a few minute walk from the main entrance to the town. If you don't want to walk up the hill, there is an escalator.

Thank you for all your suggestions. The town of Italica sounds perfect without the time commitment to get to Jerez! I am interested in knowing why Granada is Mira's favorite city? I would like to see if your reasons mesh with ours and if Granada may become our favorite city in Spain!
I do want to clarify that we have been to Barcelona at the end of Provence trip and am only visiting Malaga for the airport. We got frequent flier flights in and out Spain, so booked those early. With the relatively close distance between Ronda and Malaga, we plan to drive to the airport and fly out of Malaga on our last day.

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

Nick

Because traveler interests and priorities vary so widely, I would never tell anyone what to skip or see instead of something else. However I am with Mira in that I liked Granada more than Seville, Cordoba, or Madrid (although I enjoyed all of them). It felt a little less polished, more homey, friendlier, older. We saw more Spanish tourists there than in the other cities. Maybe Mira can verbalize it better. :)

I would not drive on the itinerary, for me Spain is a train country. Ronda is a nice stop but I would put Granada in front of it. I've said it hear before: Madrid is one of the three most underrated big cities in Europe (the other two are Lisbon and Budapest). It is so much more that its museums, one of the easiest and most walkable capital cities in all of Europe. You cold consider taking a night each from Madrid and Seville, and spend those night in Granada as well. But you will wish that you had more time in Madrid and Seville!

The reason I love Granada is the feel it has. It is laid back, funky, a little less polished and pretty than Seville. The Moorish architecture and exotic feel in the Albaycin is exciting. To me it's magical - the mountains in the background, Alhambra lit up. It's heavily touristed, but it's easy to find local life. The architectural and cultural mix and interplay is also amazing. Funky, bohemian, relaxed, unique, passionate.

If you can tolerate Anthony Bourdain (some people hate him, I like him), there's an episode of Parts Unknown on Netflix called Spain that is 95% in Granada. It captures the vibe pretty well.

I would certainly keep Toledo,it has so much history,great cathedral,located on a hill with great views.I liked Granada but for me Seville is quintessential Spain and Ronda for the views and walking,we stayed on the cliff overlooking the valley.Madrid has the cultural sights not to be missed.
Mike

My husband and I have travelled to off the beaten track areas in Spain four times with bicycles and a rental car to cart ourselves and our bikes. For the southern trip we flew into Granada. Why I believe Granada is one of my favorite places? The airport is local, you see families leaving from a small airport on a trip, they are having a good time. The car rental gentleman speaks no english yet we can communicate about weather and the rental, we are having a good time. We stayed in IBIS after several days in a B&B in Alhama de Granada run by a off beat Belgium couple with potential thieving children. They did take my portion of the pig! There were great circlular rides in the area. There were great circle drives in the area. There would be a roman ruin here and there. "There is suppose to be a ruin here?" Oh, I am standing on it! We had a meal at a place of A92 and I swear the portions were for a feast! We stopped at an unknown town for a bathroom, drink and tapas! The people were so nice! The Alhambra is a shinning star. The size is manageable. There are tent homes on that hill! Why is no one home? Maybe, they are at work! Catholic school girls stealing a smoke from the Nuns. They were way too young to be smoking! The Alpujarras area includes the current hippies of Spain. We stayed west of Nerja for a week and have nothing but nice things to say about the locals! We enjoyed the Ronda area for our place of stay, RS eating recommendation and imagining those who were thrown off that bridge. It is a bit dry even in the spring. There were good cycling routes. Ronda to Malaga by car was the drive of our life in Spain. It is a narrow road high to low with those curves! We intended to do a brief stop in Malaga to check in on Picasso. After small town living we moved on!