Itineray in place would love to hear thoughts and comments

Hi Cheryl.
It's such a nice trip that you are planning and with a good amount of time (15 nights) in which to explore Spain.

The first thing I noted (and I am guilty of doing the same) is you have bus/train journeys planned for all but 4 of your 14 full days in Spain - 12th, 14th, 15th, 20th. With 3 of these right at the start of your trip, you may become tired from being bound to a transport schedule as the trip progresses. I don't know what it is, but waking up knowing you have a bus/train/plane to catch induces a certain amount of stress to your day from the outset. I would look at including a full 'free' day for local sights in both Madrid and Seville as well as the 4 you already have. Unfortunately that would mean dropping Ronda (which I think is too far in a day from Seville), and choosing between Jerez and Arcos.

11/11/17 Arrive Barcelona (5N)
11/12/17 La Sagrade Familla
11/13/17 Montserrat & Park Guell
11/14/17 Barcelona sights
11/15/17 Barcelona sights
11/16/17 Train to Madrid (4N)
11/17/17 Madrid sights
11/18/17 Day trip to Toledo
11/19/17 Day trip to Segovia
11/20/17 Train to Granada (2N)
11/21/17 Alhambra & sights
11/22/17 Train to Sevilla (4N)
11/23/17 Seville sights
11/24/17 Day trip to Cordoba
11/25/17 Day trip to Jerez or Arcos de la Frontera
11/26/17 Fly out of Sevilla to Toronto

If your heart is set on Ronda then I would pull Barcelona back to 4 nights and include a single night stop for Ronda, between Granada and Seville.

Note: Bold days are those dedicated solely to local sightseeing. ie. no trains or buses to catch.

David thank you so much for your input. I will take into consideration. I do think I will add at least 1 full day as you suggested in Madrid and will not worry about Ronda. I did not realize it was that far south. May I ask have you ever been in either of Jerez or Acrcos? Would you have a suggestion?

You might like to head to Placa Espanya on your arrival evening for the Magic Fountains of Montjuic (shows 7pm to 830pm on the half hour)

Placa Espanya is also where you will need to get an R5 train for the 1 hour journey to Montserrat - departing weekdays 08:36, 09:36, 10:36. http://www.fgc.es/esp/llobregat-anoia.asp?linia=R5

I know the desire is to see as much as possible in the time you have, but I think it's a real danger that come the back end of your trip you may feel burdened by having to get up and to the station day after day.

May I ask have you ever been in either of Jerez or Acrcos? Would you have a suggestion?
I didn't have time for either unfortunately as we had scheduled Ronda to Cadiz in one day, and on to Sevilla after that. Chani I think will be able to offer some insight.

Ticket lines at La Sagrada Familia (especially) and Parc Gurll can be quite long. Consider pre-booking those tickets for early-morning entry times.

Alhambra entries do sell out, so pre-purchasing admission there is a must.

12th - Buy tickets in advance for first entry and line up 15 or more minutes in advance. That way you'll be among the first in and will be able to take some nearly people-less photos and enjoy the church when it's quiet. An hour or so later, it will be packed with people and the combined din of all those voices and the construction work . . . If you want, you can book a visit to one of the two towers. Allow some time in the church and the museum before going up, you can always spend more time seeing the church after you descend the tower. Afterward, walk up Gaudi avenue (lots of places to stop for coffee or lunch) to Hospital de Sant Pau another moderisme site and well worth a couple hours.

13th-15th - I wouldn't book anything for after Monserrat - you never know how much time you'll want there. Also, keep it flexible since weather's iffy and you don't want to end up going on a poor visibility day. There's so much to see and do in Barcelona. You need to let us know what your interests are.

Sevilla - as David said, Ronda is not a day trip. I've been to Jerez, Arcos and Cadiz. What would you like to know?

In general, I think your itinerary is faced-paced yet reasonable since you only have 3 hotel changes. If it seems too hectic, you can skip a day trip or two.

Thanks again for so much input. I have a couple questions. I realize I am 10 months out, but like to try and organize thoughts, ideas & actual plans. I enjoy doing a lot of research before traveling. I must admit the train schedules etc are always the hardest thing for me so please if I ask a redundant question go easy on me.. LOL

On 11/12 we are only planning La Sagrada then will spend evening exploring area of apt. We will be staying in the La Rambla area. Renting an Airbnb believe this is the address Av. Paral.lel street. It seems to be a great walking area. Question so do you think doing Montserrat & Park Guell is to much in one day. Other option do you think it pays to do full day excursion (citytour, Montserrat & PG)? We want to make sure we do the Cog Wheel Train and the Montjic Cable Car. Love the idea of the Fountains of Montjuic.

Ronda def. is out. As far as Jerez & Arcos I guess I will do some research. Thinking if we could spend the day exploring an area enjoying good food, sights etc. would make for a great day and close to our holiday.

Another thought on buying tickets for Sagrade would it make sense that b/c we are arriving on Nov 11 that on our first full day Nov 12 we stay in the area and explore, maybe do a walking tour or even Park Guell and move Sagrade to Nov 14. This way we can buy tickets on the 12th? Or should we be buying tickets further in advance? Would like to get tickets for first entry. We are all morning people so getting up and moving is good. At night nigh life and relaxing would work.

Enough for now. Thanks again

La Sagrada Familia of course means The Sacred Family. Referring to it as 'Sagrada' means you are just using the adjective (sacred), which in this case means nothing without the noun (family) it is describing.
... excuse my nitpicking, sorry.

Consult your guidebook about transportation on Montjuic. I haven't been there, but I believe you must choose in advance which form of transportation you will use for the trip up. You may not be able to take both the cog-wheel train and the cable car.

I was able to buy a first-entry ticket for La Sagrada Familia about 45 hours in advance, but I cannot guarantee it will work for you. I think it depends on whether you absolutely must have that early entry in order for your itinerary to work.

I would steal a night from Barcelona and also eliminate a day trip or two. You will need some down time to rest. About Ronda, we spent 3 nights there and loved it. Also visited Madrid and Barcelona and preferred Madrid. Make sure you watch a flamenco performance somewhere!

Given the choice of Arcos or Jerez, I'd choose Arcos if the weather's sunny. You have to take the train to Jerez to get the bus to Arcos. Since you're morning people, you could probably go early to Arcos and then have time for a sherry bodega tour and one or two other sights in Jerez.

Best flamenco is in Sevilla. My preference is La Casa del Flamenco.

In November you can probably get tickets to SF a day or two in advance, but I think you need to print them out. Are you sure you'll have a secure internet connection in your flat? Your own equipment? If you know when you're going, why not get that done at home before you leave.

I did not go to either Montserrat or Park Guell. Park Guell is a timed entry ticket. If you go on the same day, after Montserrat, won't you feel under pressure to get back to Barcelona in plenty of time? How do you know in advance how much time you'll need/want at Montserrat?

I think Park Guell would be best visited first, on opening at 830am. Get the 11:36 R5 Manresa train from Placa Espanya to Montserrat. That will give you the full afternoon (4-5 hours) there.

Cheryl,

• I agree with David's itinerary, with some exceptions; I'd cut down on
  the number of day trips while in Madrid, and especially while in
  Sevilla.

• I definitely agree with spending 2 nights in Granada.

• I'd suggest giving yourself more time to explore Sevilla... At least
  2-3 full days.

• If you leave your itinerary as is, you're only allocating a few hours to experience most of the cities on your list, except for Barcelona where it looks like you'll be spending 5-6 nights (with day trip to Montserrat)

Enjoy Spain!

Seems you have plenty of responses. I agree that Arcos de la Frontera is better than Jerez unless you really enjoy sherry and wanted to visit the bodegas. Ronda is very nice, especially the new bridge (1793) and gorge. In Barcelona you can visit the Picasso museum is you like his work. I enjoyed view his versions of Velazquez's Las Meninas. Consider a day trip to Figueres to see the Dali museum. It's within walking distance of the train station. I don't remember having to pay to get into Guell Park, but it was crowded. Other Gaudi sights are Casa Batlo and Casa Mila. Take the time to walk Las Ramblas (watch out for pick-pockets) and visit the market La Boqueria. Enjoy your trip.

Thank you all. A quick thought our last full day in Seville I have either Jerez or Acros? I am thinking we may play this by ear or how we feel towards the end. May just want to hang around in Seville. So the question is if we did at the last minute decide to do either Jerez or Acros would we be able to get reasonable train/bus fare.

Thanks again

You have to take the train from Sevilla to Jerez. After that, you either stay in Jerez or take the bus to Arcos. The train isn't expensive and there are no early discounts. Same for the bus.

As of August 2016 it was possible to buy La Sagrada Familia tickets at the large tourist office beneath Pl. Catalunya. That T.O. is efficient but you can spend some time waiting in line, so that is something to consider. However, I always try to make the T.O. my first stop in a new city, anyway, to find out about special events that might interest me. Major problem: The T.O. does not sell the timed tickets for the LSF towers, so if you want to go up one of the towers (and you'd want to coordinate that with your regular entry ticket), you do need to buy your tickets online. I have no idea whether you have to print them out.

I agree that you don't want to have a timed afternoon ticket for a Barcelona sight on the same day you're doing Montserrat unless said ticket is for very late in the afternoon and you go to Montserrat quite early. Pay attention to what you're buying when you get the Montserrat train ticket. I think the package includes transportation all the way up the mountain and is a round-trip ticket, so you don't need to buy another ticket on your way back. But check to be sure!

If your hotel is on Av. Paral.lel, you're not right at Las Ramblas but you'll find yourself coming across the latter as you go to places like the Barri Gotic and some of the modernista sights. I don't think there's a need to make a special effort to see Las Ramblas.

Ask your hotel to suggest several different walking routes toward the area around Las Ramblas so you see different streets as you come and go, rather than retracing your steps over and over. You'll be walking through a very historic area with lots of interesting ethnic (and Spanish) restaurants, but be aware that some parts of El Raval are not yet gentrified. I was totally comfortable there, being a resident of a large city, but I believe Rick mentions that there's some scruffiness in areas.

So I have been doing some research and am refining our itinerary ideas. Thoughts please:
We have pushed our trip 1 week later.

the first 5 days November 18-22 will be in Barcelona (staying 5 nights)
Nov 23 depart Barcelona-Madrid
Nov 24 Madrid-Toledo Day; Madrid at night
Nov 25 Madrid Segovia Day; Madrid at night
Nov 26 depart Madrid and head to Sevilla
Nov 27 Sevilla-spend day exploring
Nov 28 Sevilla- Mezquita, Jewish Quarter etc
Nov 29 Sevilla ???
Nov 30 depart for Malaga
Dec 1 Malaga Burriana Beach, Nerja Caves, Frigillana
Dec 2 Malaga Ronda, Marabella?
Dec 3 depart for home

So questions do we need 3.5 days in Sevilla? If so suggestions please. No Museums at this point. As you will see we took out Granada. All 5 of us traveling are good with this. We want to spend time in White Villages. Departing from Malaga works better for us and is less expensive. Would like to end trip with a relaxing feel/water/ beach etc. Would it make sense to add a day to this area. We are planning on renting a car for the last leg of the trip. We have 2 thoughts one would be to rent car in Sevilla and drive to Malaga keep car while there and turn in at Malaga airport when we leave. Or we could depart Sevilla on train/bus and then rent car in Malaga. What would driving be like from Sevilla to Malaga? Would it be to our benefit to drive Sevilla -Malaga. I have read that in this area we will be able to find parking without procblems Again Thanks for your help

One day in Seville can be used for a day trip to Cordoba.

With respect to your reference to beaches: I suspect it will be too cold to go into the water by the time you get there, but the temperature should be very pleasant for walking around.

Nov 30 Pick up rental car in Sevilla. Drive to Ronda - 1 night
Dec 01 Drive to Malaga - 2 nights
Dec 02 Day to Nerja and Frigillana
Dec 03 Depart Malaga, returning rental car at the airport

Make sure you get an early train from Barcelona to Madrid on 23rd, allowing time to walk old Madrid in the afternoon.

Make sure you get a late train from Madrid to Sevilla on 26th, allowing time to visit the Royal Palace in the morning.

Again thanks for the replies. We are aware that in December beaches won't be bustling, however a stroll on a sunny day at the beach does the soul wonders. Yes I do have one day to Cordobar and Mezquite while staying in Seville. I don't really want to add anther over night just because you lose to much time cking in and then leaving. So would it make sense to depart Seville early (rent car there) and go directly to Ronda and then on to Malaga for the remainder of the time. Also how do you feel about driving in that region? I have read not to drive into Malaga. Thanks again

To the contrary. The time is wasted making a 3 hour return journey Malaga - Ronda when you will have passed right by Ronda on the journey from Seville.

So thinking possibly leaving Sevilla early AM head to Ronda spend day then on to Malaga. This way we do not have another over night and we also will not be back tracking.

If you're going to stop in Ronda on the way to Malaga (efficient idea), the usual warnings about protecting your possessions apply:

• Be sure everything is stored in an enclosed trunk.

• Do not open the trunk upon arrival in Ronda to put things in or take things out.

• Try to select a safe parking spot. It's often pointed out that broken glass on the ground suggests that you've chosen an area popular with thieves.

• Place high-value electronics in day bags before setting out for the day so you'll have them with you, rather than leaving them in the car while it's parked. I'm prescription-dependent so would probably want to take at least a few days' meds with me, rather than leaving all of them in the car. (Heat can be an issue for some medications, too.)

Nice compromise. Pertinent advice re valuables in your car.

Advice well taken. We have traveled extensively and try to be smart and never be to trusting. My husband is diabetic so will just keep all supplies with us along with cameras and phones. Other than that will have just clothing as I do not even travel with any jewelry... So hopefully will be ok. Does Ronda have a higher level of theft and break ins than other areas?

No, I don't know specifically if the risk is greater but I wouldn't think so. The main places to take extra precaution for vehicle security are motorway rest stops and the central areas of larger cities.

I have no reason to think that Ronda is particularly risky; I just know I've read warnings for decades about thefts from cars parked at obvious tourist stops.