Itinerary Help... First Trip to Spain

We had planned to rent a car one day to drive from Seville into Ronda, but we were enjoying Seville so much, we never left the town.

I could say that you aren't spending enough time in Barcelona, Madrid, and Seville. But we never made it to Gibraltar or Morocco either.

Your itinerary is very rushed IMO.
You plan to visit 8 cities in 14 nights.

Do you already have all your accommodations booked?

Have you booked your Alhambra tickets?
Unfortunately there are no more Alhambra tickets available for next month. These tickets need to be booked 3 months in advance.

You may be interested in reading this recent post before going all the way to Tangier.

I’d urge you to reconsider your itinerary, and add a few more nights to Barcelona and Sevilla, and skip Tarifa, Tangier, and Nerja.

You may also consider visiting Córdoba en-route to Sevilla (from Madrid).

You can travel via train, or bus, to most of your destinations, and you’re better off booking point to point tickets rather than buying an expensive “rail pass”

If you haven’t booked a ticket to the Alhambra, I’d skip Granada, and save it for your next trip.

Wishing you a wonderful trip!

You mentioned Tarifa--it's been getting poor reviews here, you may want to look at those reviews using the SEARCH box at the top of this window.

And I agree with everything Priscilla said: 8 cities in 14 nights!
Getting from point A to B usually takes longer than you think it will, and you can end up spending more time on transportation than you do seeing and doing the things you're going to Spain to see and do.

I realize this is your first trip to Spain--it would be different, I suppose, if you've previously done this kind of really hectic travel in Europe and this is just your usual European travel style and you like it that way.

Just trying to help you have a more enjoyable trip....

Agree, too fast, not long enough in most places. You need more time in Barcelona and Granada at a minimum.

Most of all, your plan for a "day trip" to Morocco is not wise IMHO. You see the absolute worst of the country, a grotesque manufactured-for-tourists "bordertown" experience (think: going to Tijuana to give you a taste of Mexico). Worst, it takes you out of your way and burns 2-3 days which you can not afford to throw away. Morocco is wonderful, but Tangier ain't. Save Morocco for another trip when you can see the worthwhile parts (Marrakech, Fes and beyond, which requires more time than you have).

Note that Barcelona is difficult to manage on a short trip and/or on short notice (both apply to your plan) because the popular attractions require pre-booking. Likewise, tickets for the Alhambra sell out long in advance, you need to book them soon and/or have flexibility (which you won't have if you stick to this schedule).

"Beach:" time in Europe is going to fall short of the beaches you are used to. Go to the beach at home, save your time in Spain for things that are better or unique in Spain.

You have too many one-night-stands, and you are not accounting for all the time required to simply pick up and move yourself from one place to another. You need to slow this down, cut some stuff, and do less running from place to place. Sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear, but you plan isn't going to produce the results you hope for.

Thanks for your responses so far. I didn't realize 8 cities in 14 nights! Maybe a few too many one-nighters but which ones to drop? The itinerary is taken from the RS guidebook. RS also says that Morocco/Tangier is the most exciting day trip in Europe... yet he also warns of money grubbers, drugs and stomach sickness??
I have booked hotels this week for Barcelona, Madrid and Granada and the hotel in Granada secured a full ticket to Alhambra.

Can't get a room in Seville on the day I was to arrive due to a big soccer match, so I can push arriving to the morning of Day 7.
This is all like putting a big puzzle together!

OP: I don't think many people here, with much actual European travel experience, take Rick's occasional frenzied "do one country in 2 weeks" itineraries seriously anymore, probably including Rick. They seem to be a curious relic that somehow this incredibly talented European traveler somehow leaves in some of his books.
Or you can make the mistake I did on my first trip to Europe: tried to emulate one of Rick's "one big country in 2 weeks" itineraries. It wasn't for me, but maybe I'm missing something. But hey, go for it and then when you return (if you survive), perhaps you'll reflect on whether your trip could have been more fun and you'll let us know how it worked out for you.

I have booked hotels this week for Barcelona, Madrid and Granada and the hotel in Granada secured a full ticket to Alhambra.

It’s great that the hotel in Granada has a ticket for the Alhambra! You’re lucky!

What’s your revised itinerary?

Are you planning to travel from Madrid to Granada?

You may consider visiting Toledo at the end of your trip.

If you can’t find acccomodations in Sevilla, consider staying in Córdoba for at least 1-2 nights.

Enjoy!

CC - the RS advice on Tangier is not the only thing in the RS guide books that is best ignored (most of the info and recommendations are good). Last year I took a guided tour to Morocco for 14 days, though the route took us very close to Tangier, we did not go there. I compared my tour itinerary to several other popular companies - none went to Tangier. Morocco is a wonderful country to visit and I highly recommend it, but not Tangier and not for a day.

The Alhambra is wonderful but if you can't be sure of spending several hours there, don't go to Granada. It's time-consuming to get there and the other sights don't warrant it, especially compared with the rest of Andalucia.

Malaga may be a better choice than Nerja for a beach. And it's a lovely town with interesting sights as well. What about Cadiz instead? There's a lot to see and do and it's close enough to Sevilla for a day trip.

Barcelona needs more than a couple days, especially when you're in a jetlagged haze. If you cut Tangier, Gibraltar, Nerja and Granada, you will have more time in the other locations to relax and enjoy your trip.

Feria in **Sevilla is a major week-long festival. This year it's from May 5 to May 12. Plan to avoid it - too many crowds and by now any "bargain" priced rooms (high high season) will probably be long gone.

If you love European painting, you'll want 2 full days in Madrid for the great art museums, otherwise 2 nights is enough. I like that you are spending a night in Toledo, maybe spend 2 and take a morning train to Sevilla or Cordoba - another great place for 1-2 nights. You could rent a car when you leave Cordoba and spend 2-3 nights in the hill towns, including Ronda, then drop the car in Sevilla. I'd go to Toledo from Barcelona, and leave your last days for Madrid, thus eliminating one more hotel change. BTW, to make it easier, you can store most of your luggage in the Madrid train station on the way to Toledo and pick it up on the way to Cordoba/Sevilla, just take a small overnight bag to Toledo.

If you are 60+, you can buy a tarjeta dorada for €6 when you get to Spain at any train station with proof of age (passport, driver's license). With that card you can get 25% - 40% (depending on the type of train and day of the week) off full price tickets on fast trains (not regionals, which you probably won't be using anyway). Though this article is a couple years old, it's still a very good lesson in train tickets in Spain. Use the renfe.com site for routes, prices and timetables. Tickets usually go on sale 62 days in advance, but it's erratic. There are some highly discounted prices, they sell out quickly, so a lot may already be gone. Much of the time, the tarjeta dorada price is almost as good (sometimes even better!) and it has all the benefits (cancel, change, refund, etc) of a full price ticket. To compare, when you look for a train on the Renfe site, after putting in the cities and date, add "1" tarjeta dorada. Then choose a train on the next page and click the + box on the right. That gives you details. Click on the drop-down menu for fares and you'll see all the available fares. You won't be able to buy tickets until you have the card number. If you find a no-change, no-refund promo price that is better than the card discount, and you want to buy it, use PayPal. Most US credit cards won't work.

Once you are in Spain with your card in hand, you can buy tickets in advance in train stations (expect long lines) or online.

Spain is an amazingly wonderful country. Assume this is only your first trip. Slow down a little to soak it up. Like a good wine (or chocolate), don't try to chug it down, sip it slowly.

The itinerary is taken from the RS guidebook. RS also says that Morocco/Tangier is the most exciting day trip in Europe... yet he also warns of money grubbers, drugs and stomach sickness??

Rick Steves is a smart, hard-working, generally sensible guy who has given us all a wealth of knowledge and insights for decades. That does not mean that he's perfect, is always right, or that every crazy idea he had when he was 20 would still strike him as a smart choice today. The "exciting day trip" to Tangier is at the top of my list of things I suspect he would see differently today.

I'm guessing that his suggestion for an "exciting day trip" to Tangier was probably an insight he developed in his post-college trips to Europe back in the 70s, when he was 20 and looking for different kinds of excitement than most of us would seek today. Just like his advice to "take a night train" to save a few Deutschmarks (you're gonna sleep anyway, so why not sleep on a train, skip the hotel, and save money? Brilliant!). Been there, tried that, never again, and I know a lot of people who feel the same way. I suspect he would not think that's such a great strategy today (I have a feeling that these days, Rick Steves prefers to get an actual good night's sleep, in a quiet, dark hotel room that's not moving, like most rational people I know). Hey, I had lots of bright ideas that seemed clever when I was 20, too (but I got over a lot of them, and they were not preserved in books for all the world to quote and follow for decades, thank goodness).

Especially given the too-fast pace of your trip, I think ditching the "exciting day trip" to Tangier would be a wise choice (you really only get a few hours off the ferry). I'd skip Tarifa, too. Those days would be better spent in your primary target areas of Spain. Morocco will be there for next time when you can do it justice.

Thanks for the recommendations. I've decided to take Tangier and Tariffa off the itinerary. From Seville, is it best to to Ronda, then Gibralter or vice versa? With the extra day & 2 nights will possibly add a night in Seville and/or Granada. Still not sure if it's best to travel by bus from Seville to Ronda, Gibralter, Costa del Sol to Granada, or rent a car??

I would rent a car in Sevilla and return it in Granada. Looking at a map, the best route would be Gibraltar> Ronda > Granada.

I will go back to my concern about Granada. Are you able to get tickets for the Alhambra. Tickets for the month of May are sold out. There are still guided tours you can buy (for around €65 rather than the regular ticket for €15), but they are also selling out. Do you have tickets?

Thanks Chani. The Alhambra tickets were sold out on their website, but fortunately my hotel in Granada secured a full ticket for me for June 1st!

It seems a car would be faster and more flexible to get around Andalucia - Seville, Ronda, Gibralter, Costa del Sol, and Granada - then by bus??

In October my wife and I did the sampler platter of Spain trip kind of like this one and I came to much of the same conclusions - Tangiers/Morocco is too much of a distraction just to be able to say "I've been to Africa". And if I can make a modest suggestion Gibraltar is on the bubble for me for many of the same reasons. I've been there and it's not Spain it's a tiny piece of Britain so if you're going for Spain then concentrate on Spain. If you're willing to rent a car:

With 15 Days:
Day 1 - arrive Barcelona 9 am.
Day 2 - Barcelona
Day 3 - Barcelona, evening train to Madrid.
Day 4 - Madrid
Day 5 - Madrid - day trip to Toledo
Day 6 - Madrid - evening train to Seville
Day 7 - Seville
Day 8 - Seville
Day 9 - Seville (rent car) drive to Arcos
Day 10 - Drive to Rhonda via Zahara de la Sierra (or other park route)
Day 11 - Drive to Malaga / Nerja
Day 12 - (Drive to) Granada (and drop off car)
Day 13 - to Granada (Alhambra tour)
Day 14 - Granada. Late return to Madrid (unfortunately my return flight is from Madrid)
Day 15 - Return

This is pretty close to cities plan that we did and it is about as fast as I think I'm willing to go. Whatever you decide it will be too short in some cities - I easily could have stayed longer in both Seville and Granada. So do what you want to do and just decide what you would come back to and see again.

Note: If you rent a car get the smallest one you can, get full coverage and get an international driver's license. Spanish roads and signage is good and the driver's are sane. I used Herz because they were in both cities for the drop-off.
We stayed in Hotel Europa just off Puerto del Sol. Easiest way to the airport is take the RER train line from Sol station (right outside the hotel) to Nuevos Ministerios stop and get on the line to all the Airport Terminals from there. You will need to pay an airport surcharge - probably ~3e/person to get out the gate at the airport terminal. (The metro will work too but there are multiple changes.)
I followed these instructions: https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187514-i126-k4081442-Puerta_del_Sol_to_Madrid_Airport_by_Train_the_Basics-Madrid.html and it worked like a charm.

Have a great trip whatever you decide!
=Tod

Thanks Tod. That is pretty close to my plan, which isn't finalized yet. Still undecided on Tangier. Definitely going to rent a car in Seville to drive around the south areas ending in Granada. Some friends told me they did not have to get an int'l drivers license for Spain. Any thoughts on that?

@CC - you should probably get an International Drivers License, it is actually a requirement in Spain. You may incur a fine if do not have one when asked by the police.

I would say definitely get the license. It's a mild inconvenience and it seems silly because you could easily make one at home with a laser printer but they do care in Spain. I have driven in England, Ireland, Italy and France without one but I got one for Spain.

I had no problems but a friend of mine got stopped at a random DUI checkpoint and hadn't been drinking but got a ticket for not having the international license. If you never get stopped you'll have no problem but it you need to talk to the police for any reason involving the car you 'll end up with a ticket if you don't have it from everything I've heard.

On Tangiers - if Tarifa appealed to me I would have probably gone ahead and done it. But travelling to Tarifa without any reason except to go to Tangiers versus spending the day seeing Seville or something makes it essentially a kill day and I didn't have that slack in my schedule. With three weeks I probably would have done it... I find that when you get to three weeks a quiet day doing laundry and or some other excuse to relax is usually welcome.

=Tod

Thanks for all your recommendations! I will definitely obtain an international drivers license. Here is my updated itinerary with a few changes. I realize the 4 day stretch between Seville and Granada will be hectic, however no drive is over 2 1/2 hours according to Google map estimates. I have secured Alhambra and Sagrada Familia tickets already. Are there any other tourist sites to purchase tickets in advance? Also, train tickets in advance? Any other recommendations are greatly appreciated! Looking forward to Spain in a month!
Day 1 - arrive Barcelona 9 am (jet lag? Ramblas, Picasso museum)

Day 2 - Barcelona
Day 3 - Barcelona (evening train to Madrid)
Day 4 - Madrid
Day 5 - Toledo Day Trip (Sleep in Madrid)
Day 6 - Madrid
Day 7 - Seville (early train to Seville)
Day 8 - Seville (get rental car)
Day 9 - Ronda (early drive to Ronda 2 hrs)
Day 10 - Tangier/Morocco Day Trip (early drive to Tarifa 2 hrs; Sleep in Tarifa)
Day 11 - Gilbralter Day Trip (morning drive Tarifa to Gibralter 1 hr; evening drive to Nerja 2 1/2 hrs)
Day 12 - Nerja (beaches; evening drive to Granada 1 1/2 hr)
Day 13 - Granada
Day 14 - Granada (Late train to Madrid)
Day 15 - Return (departing flight from Madrid 12:30 pm)

In regards to your revised itinerary. I tend to travel much faster than many on the forum. But, you still are moving extremely fast and I think you will spend more time moving from place to place than actually having experiences. In November, I spent 14 days in Spain. We covered Sevilla, white villages (arcos, Grazelema, Zahara and Ronda), Granada, Cordoba, Toledo and 2 nights in Madrid with a day trip to Segovia. We enjoyed every place, but especially liked the cities of Sevilla and Cordoba. Cordoba is so beautiful and I consider it almost essential for a trip to Andalusia. Looking at your plan, I would try to add days to Barcelona (one could spend 2 weeks there), honestly, I'd limit time spent in Madrid in order to have more time in other places. I'd rather stay overnight in Toledo. The town is enchanting at night and probably cheaper and definitely more interesting than Madrid. I'd talk to people about Gibralter and/or do some research. Folks I've talked to didn't care for it. I'd also really think about what you are missing in Spain, for the short detour into Morocco, and again, you might research Tarifa and Tangier and really make sure that those cities really have the taste of Morocco that you are looking for.

You can't afford to get stuck in hours-long lines; you should have tickets for these sights in hand before walking up to them:

Barcelona: Picasso Museum, Casa Mila, Casa Batllo, Parc Guell and maybe also Palau de la Musica Catalana. Those are expensive sights, and I would not pre-purchase tickets for your arrival day, when you may be barely awake. The Picasso Museum tends to be unbelievably crowded. If you aren't a huge fan, use your time elsewhere.

Seville: Alcazar and Cathedral. Rick explains how to manage the cathedral situation.

Madrid: Advance purchase of tickets for the Palacio Real might be a good idea.

You might still be able to save money on the following train tickets if you're willing to buy non-refundable/non-changeable tickets now: Barc-Madrid, Madrid-Seville, Granada-Madrid. Toledo won't be cheaper now, but those trains sometimes sell out. I hate to suggest buying now, because I'm still hoping someone can convince you to drop the highly marginal destinations from your itinerary so you'll more time for the Grade A destinations.

The Granada-Madrid trip will be partly by bus. Some folks prefer just to take the bus the whole way, which might be quite a bit less expensive.

More great thoughts... thanks! Hotels are booked for each stop, but have 48 hour prior to arrival cancellation options. Will look into advance train and other site tickets.

Would it be better to spend Day 3 overnight in Barcelona and take an early train to Madrid on Day 4?
I could move Toledo from Day 5 to Day 6 and stay overnight in Toledo and then travel to Seville from Toledo the morning of Day 7 (a longer train ride since you double back to Madrid first).

Day 10 - rather than stay in Tarifa, hotel is in La Linea next to Gibralter border.
Option of dropping Tangier day and spending an extra day in Ronda or other white hill town?