How many days

Instead of going back to Spain to finish seeing it why not spend all three weeks there? Especially since no one knows when the next variant will strike and each country in the Schengen zone has separate COVID restrictions. Save Portugal for the next trip when you can explore it in depth.

You could probably trim down Toledo, Ronda, and Cordoba to 2 nights each and still get a pretty good feel for all of them, better than most American tourists do as those towns are typically relegated to daytrips due to short vacation times.

If you do that you can free 3 nights to play around with. You could add 1 night more to Sevilla and then add a third smaller city/town for 2 nights along your route, I'd recommend (in order of preference) - Zaragoza, or Cadiz, or Cuenca.

PS: You should know that Sept 11th is the National Day of Catalonia, especially celebrated in Barcelona with large political demonstrations, just need to Google images of "La Diada" to know what I mean. Might toss a wrench into any highly structured plans... or might not if Covid-19 is still a thing come September.

I think Barbara is planning 3 weeks in Spain then extra time in Portugal.

Ronda is the only one of your locations where 3 nights might be a bit much unless you use a day to visit some white villages. I private driver would be advisable there.

Toledo, Cordoba and Granada have enough to keep you occupied for 2-1/2 days. They are not huge cities; I think you'll be comfortable in all of them. Note, however, that Toledo and Granada are not flat.

Seville, Barcelona and Madrid (especially if you like art museums) could use more time, but if you want a laid-back trip with considerable focus on smaller places, i can understand your time allotments. If you can afford to add a couple of nights, I'd increase your stays in Barcelona and Seville.

I see nothing wrong with the order of your itinerary. Because of its geographical position, you could visit Cordoba between Toledo and Granada about as easily as between Ronda and Seville. You can let train schedules govern that decision. There aren't an awful lot of trains to Granada, and Ronda has limited (and not rapid) rail service.

The best source of information on Spanish trains is the website of the company running the trains, Renfe. Rome2Rio can be helpful in showing what forms of transportation are available between Point A and Point B, but it is sometimes wildly incorrect about fares, travel times and frequencies.

Edited to add: It may still be quite hot in Spain in September. That may slow down your sightseeing.

Barbara,
The outline of your plan is pretty good.

We have been to all these places as well as Portugal. You need almost two weeks to do Portugal. Not sure what you had planned for Portugal.

There once was an overnight train from Madrid to Lisbon, but to use it you would have to reorder your itinerary and go from Barcelona to southern Spain first, not sure that is a good idea. There is a high speed train from Barcelona to Madrid.

Also, I strongly suggest that you do a day trip from Madrid to Segovia. It is not to be missed.

I can't imagine how much your driver hire will cost you to take you from Seville to Lisbon.

You are correct not to try to do Galacia and the Basque country on this trip.

You could do Galacia when you do Portugal. We did a tour with Douro River Cruise that included Lisbon, stops on the way to Porto a week Douro river cruise that included visit to Salamanca, Spain (nice). Also, we did extra days in Porto that included a day trip to Galacia (Santiago de Compostela) that is worth a visit.

Take one night from Ronda, and spend that night in Arcos de la Frontera, another (and very different) white hill town.

Actually I agree that 3 nights is more than you need in Ronda or Toledo. As long as you arrive mid-day, spend one night, then move-on mid-day the following day, I think that gives you enough time to see these places (and see them at their best, after all the day-trippers have cleared out).

I think Barbara is planning 3 weeks in Spain then extra time in Portugal.

Why not spend all your time in Spain and save Portugal for your next trip? Since you'll be in Europe three + weeks and want to return why not see everything on this trip?

Thank you for all your suggestions. Carlos, thank you for the September 11 heads up, maybe we will leave NY on the 11 or push the entire trip back a week. Husband wanted to be in Madrid on a weekend to see a Real Madrid game. Too early for a schedule but I read they play every weekend at home. I will reread about Ronda and Sergovia and see about those adjustments. The other couple we travel with used to do quick tours and cruises in Europe till they started serious travel with us. I very gently have been pushing them to longer trips - 3 weeks in each Netherlands, Poland, and Croatia. They wanted the one week in Portugal. I will see if I can push them to maybe a few more days in Spain. They have more commitments home then we do - 4 children all married, 6 grandchildren in different states they need to visit.

Husband wanted to be in Madrid on a weekend to see a Real Madrid game. Too early for a schedule but I read they play every weekend at home.

If the timing does not work out, one can always do a tour of the Santiago Bernabéu Stadium while in Madrid and there are plenty of other great world-class teams you can see along your route FC Barcelona, Espanyol, Atlético de Madrid, Sevilla FC, Real Betis. We have a very friendly and welcoming ambiance at our football matches in Spain, you won't find any hooligans or troublemakers.

Mary Pat, the reason we are including Portugal is because who knows if we will get back that way. In the past year we’ve have friends who pass away from heart attacks or have suffered debilitating strokes. No one is guaranteed another trip. So we decided to up our travel destinations. We have Sicily in April, back to finish Croatia in June (brother-in-law died and we had to cut last September’s trip short), then Spain/Portugal in September. We are looking at Israel/Jordan, Egypt, Ireland (family trip with kids and grandkids) and Japan for 2023. We figure seeing and enjoying some of Portugal is better then not seeing anything.

Carlos, he will go to any soccer game, believe me! But his first choice would be Real Madrid because of all the Croatian players he follows. Does the celebration/demonstrations in Barcelona last more then the one day. Cause now I am thing of just pushing the entire trip back one week. Nothing has been booked yet. PS, I worked with a woman from Sevilla and she will help me with that part of the trip.
Geovagriffith - on mydaytrip.com the price from Seville to Lisbon in €461 but there are 4 people. By the time we taxi to and from the airport and fly it would probably even out. Besides, our driver will be door-to-door.

In that case, your husband will want to know that Sevilla FC currently has one of the best Croatian players in football today, Ivan Rakitić. He's been a favourite of mine since his days in Barça. Might be a game in Sevilla you can catch when you're there :)

Regarding La Diada on Sept 11, it's usually a one day affair of pro-indie demonstrations/marches down a few of the main thoroughfares of Barcelona.

461€ seems low for a driver from Seville to Lisbon. Make sure that everything is included in that price. At the same price, I'd still be inclined towards flying, anyway - feels more reliable to me.

Tell the other couple you are traveling with that one week is not near enough time to spend visiting Portugal. Save it for another trip and use that time in Spain. Barcelona and Madrid both need more time.

So many little puzzle pieces to put together when planning a trip, especially when there is so much to see and learn and experience. Since I am just putting ‘the border’ together now, I have time to fill in the rest. And yes Carlos, Rakitič is one of the players he follows. Modrić is number one though. Maybe we’ll get to a few games. Balso, the drive is about 4:30. I will do more research and get/compare prices. We prefer the ease and convenience of a driver.

Hi Barbara. You're going to one of my very favorite parts of Europe. You do know it's likely to be hot, right? Especially in Andalucia.

Getting to Granada from Madrid by train, currently Renfe only shows 2 direct trains a day, at 7.35 am and 2.35 pm. Toledo is on a spur line, so to go anywhere from Toledo, you need to take the train to Madrid first. For that simple reason I would go to Toledo after Barcelona and then spend time in Madrid. Another benefit to that is to put a small town between your two big cities.

Ronda is a good base to tootle around the hills and see the towns by car, but I wouldn't rate it as a high priority in itself. It's also the outlier on your itinerary.

Without Ronda, you could add a day or two to Barcelona (I've spent about 3 weeks there over the past few years and still haven't seen everything on my list). Then add one or two days to Sevilla. You can day trip by train to Jerez for sherry bodegas and horse shows at the equestrian school. Or you could spend 2-3N in Jerez and day trip to the hill town of Arcos by bus and to Cadiz by train.

Chani, you have given me much to think about. I might cancel Ronda as suggested and add a few days to Barcelona, madrid, and sevilla. The other couple we are traveling with move slower then us so a few more days is a good idea. I think though that I will keep the order of cities. If there isn’t an easy train route we will just hire drivers. Luckily for us, my cousin and her husband are not hurting for funds and are very generous. When we travel together we have to fight over every Restaurant bill and museum entrance fee. They want very nice hotels and a driver if no train. They are willing to supplement any costs. So, when we travel with them we have a different mindset. You have given me a lot to think about. Oh, and i am going to push it back one week.

Hi Barbara, I have not been to Spain, but just wanted to chime in and say Happy Planning! It’s so good to plan travel again isn’t it? ( Not that I ever really stopped)!

yes Tammy, planning is so much fun, stressful, but fun. Nick, that is an interesting thought. I was thinking if we eliminated Ronda and added to Barcelona, Madrid, and maybe even Sevilla, we could go slow enough as to not feel rushed. It is the packing and unpacking too often which is a turn off. I worry a little about the hill towns because of the steep walking and numerous staircases around town. When we were in Dubrovnik it was an issue but not yet too problematic for the other couple. They live in Florida, very flat, and have their bedroom on the first floor. We joke that they should go up to the second floor once in a while and use the staircase.

Exactly how many nights do you have on the ground in Spain? It's best to plan your trip by nights, not days. And keep in mind that 2 nights equals 1 whole day at a destination, 3 nights = 2 whole days, and so forth.

This would be my recommendations based on my visits to the cities on your itinerary. The only place I haven't been is Ronda.

Barcelona - 5 or 6 nights; Barcelona is a large city with very many important, historical and interesting sites. Because of crowds, you also have to purchase many of your tickets in advance, which means you might not be able to see as many sites as you would like to see in one day.

Madrid - at least 4 nights. Some people don't like Madrid but I thought it was wonderful. If you like art, Madrid has some awesome art museums. There is also the Royal Palace, Temple DeBod, Retiro Park, and other sites as well. It's a wonderful city for walking and exploring.

Toledo - 2 or 3 nights

Granada - 3 nights is perfect, IMO. We stayed 2 nights and I wish we had a 3rd night.

Cordoba - same as Granada

Sevilla - 4 or 5 nights; there is so much to see in Sevilla and it is a gorgeous city with lovely architecture, plazas, fountains, parks, etc. Take a horse and buggy ride; see a flamenco show.

Another possibility is Malaga on the Mediterranean. It will be hot in September so I think it would be very nice to spend some time on the coast. We visited in September and really enjoyed Malaga. It's an under-rated city. Easy to get to by train from Granada. Has some lovely sites, such as the Cathedral, Alcazaba, pedestrianized city center, many art museums, etc. Don't judge Malaga by Rick's guidebook. He primarily treats Malaga as a transportation center, and that is a huge mistake IMO.

Kmkwoo - yes, I count nights because getting to each city takes time. That is why I try not to stay less then 3 nights at each location. I have revised my plan to 3 nights each Granada, Cordoba, Toledo. 4 nights Sevilla and 5 each Madrid and Barcelona. That’s 23 nights. It should be fine. Now I am going to start to recheck trains times to determine the best route.

Barbara, I am happy to hear that you are spending 5 nights in Barcelona and 5 nights in Madrid. You won't regret it. And your other stays are perfect, IMO. Sounds like an awesome trip!