Help with Spain Itinerary, 15 nights

Do you want to see Madrid? If not book a flight with Vueling from Barca to Sevilla, or the train which takes about 5 1/2 hours and is very expensive. A couple of days in Seville then hire a car at Santa Justa station then head out to the white hill towns before finishing in Granada.

No, we are not planning to visit Madrid. What is your favorite hill town for in between Sevilla and Granada? Any of these towns bikeable and picturesque?

Arcos is nice would not try to bike it is very steep and streets very narrow. Zahara is Good too. A day trip to each is best spend the night in Arcos then drive to Granada. Hope this helps

Thanks so much jayhemps. I suppose it is faster and easier to take that plane from Barca to Sevilla after all. I have been researching the hill towns and your suggestions have helped.

Anyone have an opinion on Salobrena? It is described thus: "The fresh seafood is excellent, and the cuisine is delicious. Surrounded by a beautiful natural environment, Salobreña is an ideal spot for travelers who enjoy outdoor activities and watersports" - which would be US! However, I'm wondering if it would be part of that concrete jungle in the Costa del Sol that Rick advises not worth seeing?
Compared to Setenil, with the cave overhangs (we loved Amboise France and stayed in a cave cottage there), how would you rate each for a 3 night stay with car wandering on one of the days?
Thanks in advance!

Take the train to Cordoba from Barcelona. Cordoba is more low-key than Sevilla, has a well-preserved medieval quarter and several interesting sights, besides the must-see Mezquita. The only place I've seen villages is in the hills. They are charming, interesting to wander through, but built on very steel inclines. The drive through the hills is very scenic - great with a car.

I don't know that driving the coastal road from Valencia to Andalucia would be scenic. The parts of the coastal roads I've been on, albeit between Malaga and Gibraltar, the highway had no coastal views, was just boring scenery. The road that ran along the coast was very slow because of trucks and frequent roundabouts and traffic lights, more than double the driving time.

I suggest you start with Cordoba, then Sevilla, then a car through the hills for 2-3 days and drop the car when you get to Granada. I liked Ronda as a base for the hill towns.

Other than the hill towns, the train system is the best way to get around Spain. This is the best article I've seen on using the trains and buying tickets.

Chani, thank you! SOLD on Cordoba!
However, that presents a new challenge: since we enjoy minimum 3 nights in any place, and we only have 10 nights, and still want to add a hill town stay....considering staying in Cordoba and day tripping by train to Sevilla, or the opposite. I just read a comparison that says Sevilla is a "bit snobbish" and Cordoba has a "bohemian soul" (for what that's worth). Also, the patios of Cordoba fascinate me, although we're traveling in the fall...thoughts?
That overview of the train system is ...mind boggling! But very helpful, so thanks for that also.

We stopped in Salobrena a few years ago, in early September, but didn’t spend the night. It has a nice wide beach. There’s also a castle there that affords a nice view of the area. No it isn’t like the Costa del Sol, and is much less touristy. When we stopped, there were people on the beach, but it wasn’t crowded at all. After leaving there we continued on to Almeria for the night. It would be a nice base if you have a car and wanted to visit towns like Almeria, Nerja, or Lanjaron.

Of the white towns, I too like Arcos and Zahara de la Sierra. While not normally considered a white town, Ronda is nice for a day.

With regard to driving along the coast, if you’re on the E15, A7, or AP7 toll road, those are interstates and are like any interstate in the U.S., meaning you bypass towns. If you get off of them onto an N road or smaller, those are 2 lanes and will go through towns, get stuck behind trucks, and travel at a slower rate of speed. In late September, since it’s after the tourist season, many small coastal towns seem to close for the season. That southeast portion of Spain is my least favorite to drive. That region of Spain is also one of the hottest and very dry.

I do have a differing opinion on the best way to get around Spain. If you’re staying in larger cities, then by all means, take the train, but there are many places worth seeing where there is no train or bus service. It really depends on what you want to see.

Day
1. ARRIVE Barcelona (5N)
2. Barcelona
3. Barcelona
4. Barcelona
5. Barcelona
6. Fly to Seville (4N)
7. Seville
8. Day by train to Jerez or Cadiz
9. Seville
10. Pick up car. Drive to Ronda (3N)
11. Day by car to Cordoba for the Mezquita
12. White Villages by car
13. Drive to Granada (3N)
14. Day by car to Alpujarras
15. Return car. Visit the Alhambra
16. DEPART Granada

Personally I would stay Cordoba (1) and Ronda (2), but if you prefer 3 night stays as a minimum.

Thank you David!
I believe that is what we'll do - except I'm still undecided about Ronda vs Arco vs ....? Getting excited!

Do you, or anyone, have a preference on which small hill town in stay in for several nights? We like to either dine or picnic in a square in the evening, so a friendly village atmosphere with "passeo" would be heavenly for us.

I think Ronda is still your best choice. The cliff top walk around the gorge is quite magical at sunset.
And noting the considerable drive to Cordoba from Ronda, I would tweak it like such ...

Day
1. ARRIVE Barcelona (5N)
2. Barcelona
3. Barcelona
4. Barcelona
5. Barcelona
6. Fly to Seville (5N)
7. Seville
8. Day by train to Cordoba for the Mezquita
9. Day by train to Jerez de la Frontera (or Cadiz)
10. Seville
11. Pick up car. Drive via Arcos de la Frontera to Ronda (2N)
12. White Villages by car - Grazalema and Zahara de la Sierra
13. Morning in Ronda, then later drive to Granada (3N)
14. Day by car to Alpujarras
15. Return car. Visit the Alhambra
16. DEPART Granada

Yes, you're right. I just checked, and 45 mins to Cordoba from Sevilla by train, or 2.5 hours from Ronda in the rental car...which I'm sure would be a beautiful drive, but that's only half. Printing out your suggested itin! Thanks again!

A couple of minor suggestions on David's good programme, if I may:

• day 9, I would choose Cadiz over Jerez. Nothing wrong with Jerez and great if you had time for both, but it is a bit more similar to other places you will go compared to Cadiz which is very different because of its sea location and history.

• day 13/14, I don't like driving in Granada city and you would need parking at your hotel. Instead perhaps go from Ronda to somewhere in Las Alpujarras (there are "white villages" there too), stay the night, and then next day go to Granada and drop your car and check-in to your hotel for 2 nights?

Andrew, thank you for your idea. However,I will have to hold off writing a check for your advice until I really do find out what that king thought. It looks like I'll have to ask someone at the Mezquita, as Google is not telling me! ;)

So, Ronda over Arco... every picture does look magical. Imagine at night too!

Nick, thanks for your reply. I actually think we'll keep Seville at 4 nights, and possibly skip the second side trip (but if we do go wandering, we will take your Cadiz idea!). That would be so we could keep 3 nights (our personal preference minimum) for Ronda. In which case, we'll also skip visiting Las Alpujarras while in Granada, as we are told we should take our time and perhaps visit the Alhambra both in daytime and night...still researching that part. Might need two full days just for that...

Getting excited!!!!

Good itinerary proposed above, but I would cut a day off Barcelona and visit both Ronda and Arcos de la Frontera. Both are magical and unlike any other town I have seen in Spain.

If you go to Córdoba, there is great flamenco (Tablao del Cardenal, great dancers and an intimate setting,which is how a tablao should be.) and a wonderful fine dining restaurant (El Caballo Rojo, which serves a blend of Andalucia and Moorish infkuended meals. Monkfish in honey, cream, and nuts was superb.) Not my usual dinner choice, but this was marvelous.

If driving between Ronda and Granada, there is an interesting prehistoric cave painting locale that can be visited in the Grazelema, and is only a short distance off the highway. But it is very laid back. Still owned by the family that found it around 1910, the guide shows up and takes people on tours when there are “enough” people. No schedule per se. Welcome to the SPAIN of years gone by!

Believe cabaretken is referring to Cueva de la Pileta. Very interesting cave paintings. Stumbled across it in 1979 and happened to get there when a tour was starting. Very much worth a stop if you have the time. it is actually closer to Benaojan than Grazalema.

Thank you both, Ken and Jaimie. Those cave paintings do look fascinating, and we are indeed driving between Sevilla and Granada, so we will look into it.
We are already booked for the flight from Barcelona to Sevilla, but have 4 nights in Sevilla, so daytrip to Cordoba probably, followed by 3 nights in Ronda, then 3 in Granada, before departing for more time in Italy. Thanks to all!

One suggestion for Barcelona ... consider a day trip to Gerona. By fast train it’s maybe 45min. It is a wonderful place ... we stayed there for 3 nights after 4 in Barcelona but a day trip would be worth it.

Agree on everything else!

The king wanted to demonstrate the ascendance of the Church over Islam, so ordered a huge cathedral be built in the middle of the mosque. This was during the Reconquista when many (all? nearly all?) mosques and synagogues were being destroyed or turned into churches. When the cathedral was about half-built, the king saw the beauty that was being destroyed, was very sad and regretted his decision. I prefer to believe that it was only the existence of the cathedral that kept subsequent generations from destroying the entire mosque.

Thank you Chani. Now I really want to see that cathedral-within-a-mosque known as Mezquita. Imagine building a church inside a completed building of another faith. The arrogance.

"Imagine building a church inside a completed building of another faith. The arrogance."

Well I don't think reconquest Spain was big on interfaith dialogue! And this is hardly the only example around Europe. As noted above, it is arguable that it's only because of the later "repurposing" that any of the earlier Cordoba mosque survives at all, equivalent story with the Pantheon or Hagia Sophia.

There are quite a few churches in southern Spain built on the foundations of a mosque (sometimes the mosque having itself been built on the foundations of an even earlier church), but with most of the earlier building torn down. Occasionally the minaret survived to become a bell-tower, as in Seville, or the mosque's ablution fountain became a baptism font an so on.

Moslems in Asia, Africa and Europe were notorious from the mid 600s AD to about 1600AD for either converting temples, synagogues, and churches into mosques or destroying them completely before building mosques on the same site and doing so at a vigorous rate. That sort of behavior has been documented for most, if not all, religions throughout history, and continues today, although at a much slower rate except for extremists like ISIS (who destroy, but rarely build).
Arrogance? More likely just the usual supplanting of the defeated's culture by the conquerors' one. History is frequently unpleasant. Human beings are human beings.