Help with itinerary

My wife and I visited Portugal and areas of Spain for the first time in Aug 2023, staying 10 nights in Portugal (Porto-4, Coimbra-2, Lisbon-4) and 11 nights in Spain (Seville-3, Ronda-2, Granada-2, Cordoba-1, Madrid-3). For Portugal, we landed in Porto and flew out of Lisbon (to Seville); that direction was because it worked better for our flight times.

Based on our traveling style as 2 adults:

• Porto: If visiting Porto, we would not reduce the visit from 2 nights to 1. Porto was a nice contrast with Lisbon, but given your limited time I would probably drop it and fly from Lisbon to Seville.
• Cordoba: 1 night in Cordoba was sufficient, but we would not do it as a day trip from Seville. The Roman Bridge is a pretty sight at night.
• Madrid: 3 nights was the right amount for us.

Our trip reports might be useful reference:

• Portugal: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/trip-report-portugal-aug-sep-porto-coimbra-lisbon-then-to-spain
• Spain: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/trip-report-spain-aug-sep-seville-ronda-granada-cordoba-madrid

Seven places in 18 days means seven "travel" days plus half a day of sight-seeing. Even for a trip of a lifetime that is a lot of moving around. And, seven new beds for even a well-travelled child may be a bit much to handle. One night stops really give you only a half day at a place on arrival and half a day on departure, which is why we try to prioritize two night stays to give us one full day to explore. Eliminating one stop could relax this time-crunch a lot, although Cordoba is definitely worth two nights stay and one day of touring. Maybe the next step is to list what you want to do in each place and prioritize that list to select what city (ies) to cut. Sounds like a great trip... but pausing to get a coffee on a plaza can also be a worthy and memorable tourism goal.

Thank you both.

GeoffB, actually your two trip reports were part of my research prior to drafting this itinerary - they are great and very comprehensive. Your tip on checking the cruise time table in Lisbon is something I would have never thought of.

I also hate doing 1 night stays as our standard is 3-5 nights per city. I am leaning towards taking a night off Madrid and adding to Cordoba.

You’re not allowing enough nights for Lisbon which requires five nights if you want to explore its three old towns. Don’t plan on seeing anything on arrival day. I would remove Porto and fly from Lisbon to Madrid instead of Porto to Madrid. Slow down so you can enjoy it more and not miss seeing the sights.
Both PT and ES are easy to get around on public transportation. Are you renting a car because you have a four-year-old and are packing heavy? Parking will be a hassle.
Cordoba makes a good day trip from Sevilla by direct train (1h): https://www.renfe.com/es/en. You can buy tickets 60 days out to guarantee a reservation and not pay top dollar.

We love all the places you listed and your plan is pretty good.

Still, we loved Porto and the Douro River Valley. We did a week river cruise and loved it. The river valley is perhaps the most scenic in Europe.

I suggest planning for Portugal in the future by spending two days in Porto (stay at the amazing InPatio Guesthouse), then take a cruise, or take the train up the valley (the tracks run along the north side of the river). Go to Regua and Pinhao and explore the valley and visit some vineyards, etc.
Also, farther south, don't miss the ancient walled city of Obidos, Sintra, Cascais and Evora.
Do no miss day trips to both Toledo and Segovia.

3 nights is technically sufficient for Lisbon. If you have at least half a day free on both the first and last day then you probably have enough time to do sintra ad well. But your itinerary will be packed and you will miss some of the gems in the surrounding area such as Obidos, peniche, Nazare, Tomar, Mafra, Evora etc.

We had a one week visit in Lisbon and some surrounding towns and were exhausted as there was so much to see. We are planning a one week trip to Andalucia (Granada, cordoba, Seville). Personally if I was to plan an 18-day trip I would simply combine these 2 trips and would not add anything else. In your case you are adding 3 big destinations (Porto, Madrid, Barcelona) and I fear it might be too much since you are traveling with a little one

How do you feel about art museums? If you're not a big fan, I'd tend to cut Madrid to 3 nights. I think Cordoba needs another night since you plan to stop to see Ronda along the way. And picking up and dropping off the rental car will chew up an unpredictable amount of time.

I'd prefer to have 4 nights in Seville and Barcelona, but you're tight on time, overall, because of your desire to see both countries. You're flying into Seville, so your first day there may start a bit late. As for Barcelona, many of the top sights require pre-purchased, timed tickets, so you cannot just flit from sight to sight as the spirit moves you; you'll need to either allow extra time between the tickets to be sure you get to see all you want or risk having isolated pockets of hard-to-use time scattered through your visit.

I agree with others above that this is a very (very!) hectic trip. I can understand this may be the only time you visit these shores yet, IMHO, I would cut the itinerary, otherwise you won't enjoy much of what you're seeing.

Just as a comparison, this could be an equivalent of what you propose if it was in Australia: Sydney (3) + Melbourne (2) + Adelaide (3) + Alice Springs/Uluru (2) + Darwin (1) + Brisbane (4, with day trip to the Gold Coast) + Cairns (3)... would you consider it?

Just as in Australia, you’d be zig-zagging huge distances, checking in/out constantly, and barely scratching the surface of each destination. You’d see a lot of places, but much of your energy would go to travel logistics rather than actually enjoying the cities.

Given that you're flying in to Lisbon and out of Barcelona, I'd cut it to LISBON > MADRID > BARCELONA with a handful of day trips (fe. Toledo, Girona, Montserrat...). If it's a must, you could even consider a day trip to Seville while staying in Madrid, it's a 2h30' fast train ride.

Again, that'd be only my take, of course.

Enjoy!

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses.

The common theme is that we are cramming too much, so we'll reconsider our itinerary. I did a bit more research on each destination and it was clear that we prefer smaller towns/cities over big cities. We also prefer man-made or natural wonders than art museums. In hindsight, I should have stick to only Spain but the tickets have already been purchased.

I would remove Porto and fly from Lisbon to Madrid instead of Porto to Madrid.

The plan was to fly to Seville from Porto (although there seems to be only one flight per day) as I thought the flow made more sense in terms of commuting time within Spain (Seville > Granda via Ronda > Cordoba > Madrid > Barcelona). Please let me know if it makes more sense to start Spain trip from Madrid rather than Seville.

Are you renting a car because you have a four-year-old and are packing heavy? Parking will be a hassle.

Its largely because we want to visit Ronda and the flexibility with timing. We don't really pack heavy and normally prefer trains if its a direct transfers between two destinations.

In your case you are adding 3 big destinations (Porto, Madrid, Barcelona)

Which one would you drop if it were you? My least favourite (based on my research) is Madrid. We anyway have to go to Barcelona to catch the return flight.

Just as a comparison, this could be an equivalent of what you propose if it was in Australia: Sydney (3) + Melbourne (2) + Adelaide (3) + Alice Springs/Uluru (2) + Darwin (1) + Brisbane (4, with day trip to the Gold Coast) + Cairns (3)... would you consider it?

Ha ha definitely not! Inter-city train connectivity in Australia is horrible. Nice example..

I don't question intercity service, which I am not familiar with, I simply wanted to point out the absurdity of such a long trip, barely spending hours in each destination and wasting lots of energy and time travelling.

Prasankaraja, I fully understand the desire to see as much as possible. And it's clear you understand what doing this will require in terms of spending a lot of time in transit and frequent changes of lodging.

But in the end this is your trip, and you should do it your way.

Any of the four options you are considering (except #3 in my opinion, because Córdoba deserves at least one night) might improve the itinerary.

Just about all itineraries involve compromise. I did Spain and Portugal for ten weeks earlier this year and still wished I had more time. Your guideline should be this: don't concern yourself with what you will miss. Instead, enjoy what you will see.

One change I would recommend is don't rent a car and skip Ronda. It's a nice town, but I don't think you will appreciate it on a stopover between Seville and Granada.

If you prefer smaller towns then stick to your original plan and fly from Porto to Sevilla. While in Lisbon, sleep in the charming Alfama neighborhood that will make it easier to explore one amazing neighborhood.
Córdoba is a day trip from Sevilla by direct train (1h) so no need to sleep there. You can rent a car for the day in Sevilla and drop it off in Granada. From Granada take a direct train to Madrid’s Puerta de Atocha station (4h 30m).
Buy train tickets two months out because seats sell out in Spain: https://www.renfe.com/es/en.