Help! Spain-France Travel Itinerary

I don't think you'd even have time to do anything in Granada and very little in Barcelona. Barcelona is huge and an incredible city with much to do. I've not been to Madrid yet, we will be there in November. I got varying opinions on Madrid. But it seemed to me that people like Barcelona and Sevilla a whole lot more than Madrid. By most standards, you have just a short time in Madrid, but you've allocated it more time than Barcelona and Sevilla. I think you have more time traveling than seeing. For starters, you might consider dropping Gibraltar, Tarifa and anything in Morocco.

Way, way too many stops over far too large a territory. Start by recognizing that you have just 15 usable days to start out with. On Day 1 you'll probably be sleep-deprived and jetlagged, so that day is pretty much just good for wandering around outside, trying to stay awake. Day 17 is nothing but packing and getting to the airport.

Then every time you change base cities you lose at least half a day. Those travel days are not very productive, so some of us hardly count them at all, figuring that any sightseeing we do on those hotel-change days is a bonus. You're proposing to change hotels 6 times.

Mid-trip flights are a real drag. The many steps you have to go tnrough are a pain, and they introduce stress. You have to get to the airport 2 hours before your flight. Don't want to miss the flight, so you need to pad your travel time to be safe. Then you have to hope there isn't a flight delay. Then you have to get through the airport and to your next hotel. It's going to take a minimum of 5 hours in most cases. And you're planning to do it 3 times, not counting the necessary transatlantic flights. Thar's 5 flight days within a 17-day period--not my idea of a vacation.

Have you been to Paris before? If not, you're really not giving it enough time.

It's a shame to fly to Nice and not have time to see at least one or two other coastal towns and one or two hill towns.

Barcelona really needs 4 full days (3 if you don't mind being surrounded by other tourists almost all the time as you try to visit a bunch of sights that need to be scheduled in advance). One day is a very, very bad idea.

I don't think you can really see the Alhambra the way you've scheduled Granada.

Gibraltar, Tarifa and Tangier are nothing compared to the Spanish cities you're not giving adequate time to. Or Paris. Or the Riviera.

We did a similar though more extended trip last September.
My first tip, is to keep control over your schedule, especially if you are hoping around so much by committing to times and buying your tickets to Sights like the Sagrafa Familia in advance. This allows you to make the most of your time in each place and not have to stand around waiting as much. Be on time!
If you want to visit the catacombs in Paris you MUST buy your tickets in advance up to two months out. I’ve missed out TWICE in going!
I am not a huge fan of moving around as much as you are thinking, so I’ll trim your itinerary and you can take my ideas for what they are worth.

Fly into Paris
Day 2,3 Paris
4 - Barcelona on the earliest possible flight!
5 - Barcelona
6 - Barcelona
7 - Fly to Seville earliest flight!
8 - Seville
9 - Seville
10 - Seville - rent car for day trip to Arcos
11 - Madrid - Fly Seville to Madrid. You can return the car at the airport and save a transfer hassle and cost. Get on the earliest flight!
12 - 17 Madrid ( you can day trip to Toledo on the train, easy peasy )

If you want to trim Madrid then make another day trip out of the city or add a day to Barcelona.

About car rentals in Spain, read the fine print my VERY carefully so that YOU understand because they are not rip off artists or scammers, I think it’s the most abused industry in the world because people see what they want. Use a travel credit card and decline all purchasable insurance for 100% coverage. Read the fine print twice then have your wife do the same.

Forget the rest because you will spend all your time just running around in airports and transferring and getting settled then needing lunch...

The French Riviera needs more time and your time is better spent in Barcelona.
Granada needs more time and it’s out of the way.
Gibraltar is a summer family get away for people in the U.K. and you can’t take rental cars across borders and it’s not worth it compared to the other places that REALLY need more time that you are going to.
Tangier would just get dropped out at this point.
Have to say that I was prepared to like Tangier but I didn’t. It’s a rare thing for me to dislike a place so completely. Message me if you are interested in my experience and my reasons for dropping the South out of your itinerary.
We drove for a month around Spain and it’s not real exciting in the east and south it’s all monotonous farm land and wind turbines, miles and miles and miles of not any scenic variety, it’s also expensive because there are extraordinary tolls and gas costs a lot more.
Driving Seville to Toledo to Madrid things were more interesting with little ancient towns here and there but still mostly farms. With such a short amount of time fly or train Seville to Madrid.
Barcelona was beautiful and great but people were suffering from tourist fatigue. There’s a REALLY good Vietnamese place near the Picasso museum called Vietnamesa I think.
The Barcelona Picasso museum is all most all about his early life and training so don’t expect those famous paintings. I liked it.
Seville was a wonderful little city and we think we could live there., I don’t think it gets as many visitors.
Madrid is MAGNIFICENT, we spent a full week there and were not ready to leave. Everything is big and takes much more time to visit than you think you will need.
The Prado in Madrid has a good cafe with good coffee.
We always stay in the historic neighborhoods and walk when we visit cities or hop on public transportation and since I’ve come this far, in telling you my opinion, I recommend the Free Walking Tours as a way to kick off your visit in each city.
On such a short but wide ranging trip getting yourself up and to the airport for early flights will truly buy you an extra day in each place.
Bon Voyage my friend!
Tracy

ALSO
Go in mid September for the best weather. After the second week of October it can get pretty chilly on the Plain at night and the days start getting much shorter.

You can get from Seville to Madrid in less tham three hours by train. Flying would take more time.

The itinerary you posted is so rushed, it looks more like a joke ("If It's Tuesday, This Must Be Belgium") than a real trip. Even escorted tours couldn't see this many places in so short a time, and traveling on your own takes more time than traveling on an escorted tour. You also don't have time to see most places on your list properly - and I don't mean thoroughly, but properly. For instance, there's little point to going to Granada if you can't see the Alhambra, and that really requires two nights (one full day). One day in Madrid means trying to squeeze in three great museums (the Prado, the Reina Sofia, and the Thyssen) in one day - not fun. And as said above, Barcelona has multiple sights that require timed tickets, so it's hard to see them all properly in the 1.5 days you'll have

Start over. Which are your priorities for this trip - Paris, French Riviera, Barcelona, Andalucia, Madrid, and/or Morocco? Pick three or four of these AT MOST, and make this a nice trip instead of an endurance test. Remember that two nights in a place equals one full day, and one night is less than a full day. Also pay heed to acraven's point that travel between places not only takes time, but also energy. Constantly adjusting to a new place is tiring - again, particularly when you don't have a guide to orient you. You have to learn your way around, figure out buses or parking, etc.

You are onto something important, however, when you speak of how you will connect each area. This is definitely worth looking into before your trip is set in stone, and even before you book flights from the US.

Here's my thinking on those flights
The reason I sometimes fly rather than take a train is that you can sometimes get to your destination earlier, even if it takes longer. Most sights are only open for 7 or 8 hours a day and mostly all at the same time, so when there is a time crunch, I fly early. Traffic is light and lines are short for first flights and I usually have a more than decent breakfast at the big city airports. Even baggage claim is fast then.

Day 1: Arrive in Paris (4)
Days 2-4: Paris
Day 5: Fly (via Madrid) to Granada (2)
Days 6: Alhambra
Day 7: Train to Sevilla (3)
Day 8-9: Sevilla
Day 10: Train (via stop in Córdoba) to Madrid (3)
Day 11: Madrid
Day 12: Day trip to Toledo
Day 13: Train to Barcelona (4)
Day 14-16: Barcelona
Day 17: Depart Barcelona

I would want extra time at every stop, because that's just the kind of traveler I am, but for the purpose at hand, I think David's proposal is a very good one.

Getting Alhambra tickets for the one day you will be in Granada will be key. The official ticket site shows only limited availabilty for almost every day in September and October; those tickets are likely to sell out long before your trip begins, so take care of that purchase once you have your itinerary locked down.

Thanks very much, all. You’re right that this is too much, and we will modify accordingly (though, to be fair we did 7-8 cities in Italy in 15 days and that was the perfect number for us, particularly because all our tickets were prepaid and we never had to wait in any lines).

Last question: is it possible to add San Sebastián (and cut Paris) without backtracking through Madrid? The problem we’re having is that any route to/from San Sebastián and to/from Barcelona goes through Madrid. Likewise, any flight back to the US from Sevilla or San Sebastián goes through Madrid. Seems terribly inefficient.

"The problem we’re having is that any route to/from San Sebastián and to/from Barcelona goes through Madrid."

I'm no expert and others will know better, but have you looked at Vueling for domestic flights? They operate a lot of direct flights not involving Madrid, incl Granada. Also for San Sebastian, are you considering Bilbao airport which connects to southern Spain without going via Madrid? Bilbao is the main one in the region, has a regular bus service to SanS and is more likely to have direct flights than San Sebastian airport which is very minor and not all that close to the city anyway.

Edit: I don't think you will find any direct flights from Spain to the USA other than from Madrid, Barcelona and, perhaps, Malaga. If transatlantic flights from Malaga do exist, then it is convenient for Sevilla and Granada.

This plan would have you arriving Madrid, departing Barcelona, with no backtracking.

Day 1: Arrive in Madrid (3)
Day 2: Madrid
Day 3: Day trip to Toledo
Day 4: Train to Granada (2)
Day 5: Alhambra
Day 6: Train to Sevilla (4)
Day 7-8: Sevilla
Day 9: Day trip to Córdoba for Mezquita
Day 10: Early flight to Bilbao (1)
Day 11: Late bus to San Sebastián (2)
Day 12: San Sebastián
Day 13: Fly/train to Barcelona (4)
Day 14-16: Barcelona
Day 17: Depart Barcelona