first trip to Spain -- help with itinerary

Couldn't fit it all on one post...

Questions:

1) Barcelona: We can mix any of our evening stops depending on what is available on what night, but it's too far out right now to find any information on what will be going on. I'm aware that La Merce will be active in Barcelona, but I'm not sure what festivities may occur on a Sunday. Does anyone have a clue what to expect?

2) Granada: Anyone have any recommendations on whether we should we take a night tour of the Alhambra BEFORE we see the next day or should we take the night tour AFTER the day tour?

3) Seville/Cordoba: In regards to the order of seeing the two cities, we are also interested in seeing all the Roman sites at Merida. I'm guessing it would work best to depart to Merida from Seville (if we go at all). If we don't go to Merida, would it make more sense to head to Madrid from Cordoba instead of Seville? Or does it matter?

4) Seville/Cordoba: how should we allocate trip time between cities?

Option 1: Granada to Seville for four nights with a day-trip to Cordoba.

Option 2: Go from Granada to Seville via Cordoba (spend day in Cordoba).

Option 3: Go from Granada to Seville, spend three days in Seville, and fourth night in Cordoba.

Option 4: Say the heck with it and spend two nights in Cordoba (using extra night).

4) EXTRA DAY! Where should we allocate this day? Add an extra night to southern Spain (maybe Cordoba)? Or should we add a one-night stop between Seville and Madrid and see Merida and its Roman ruins? Or do you have another idea to suggest? Right now, I don't think our itinerary really has any "nature" activities...something along those lines could be interesting too. Or another night in Barcelona?

5) We do not have any plane tickets purchased. Should we keep this itinerary (Barcelona - Madrid), or should I reverse it? Is one city better than the other to get started in and get over jet lag? I'm definitely really looking forward to the sites in Barcelona more so than Madrid...not sure if it's better to go there at the beginning or end?

6) Finally, is this itinerary realistic...busy but enjoyable? :)

Sorry for the long post. I'm trying to do a thorough job of thinking everything through and want to give you as much information as I currently know. Thanks in advance!

Julie, I'll take you at your word that you've done European trips at this pace before and are up to it. Here are a few comments:

Day 5 - what time do you have to get up to get to the airport in time for the flight? What time does the show end the evening before? Will you be able to get into your Granada hotel room early enough to get enough sleep to make up for the lack of it during the night?

Seville - Days 7 and 9: You'll have free time. Go to the cathedral first, when they open to see it before it fills up with people, then be among the first to climb the tower, before it gets crowded. Day 8: after seeing lots of Roman ruins in Italy, Israel, etc., I was underwhelmed by Italica and it took a long time to get there (long waits for the bus in both directions, long walk to the bus stop in Seville, plus the journey itself) and much of the site isn't developed yet.

Roman ruins: I understand your interest, but consider using your time to see more of the Moorish ruins in Andalusia which are unique in Europe.

Your questions (the ones I have answers for):
2. I went to the Alhambra first for the evening tour. I thought that was perfect. Tip: for the day tour, choose a morning ticket with an entry after 11.30 a.m. You will be able to enter the other ticketed areas any time during the day, before or after the Nasrid Palaces. That gives you more flexibility.
4 A. I liked the atmosphere of Cordoba after dark more than any other place in Andalusia. So I recommend 2 nights there, with one full day of sightseeing. You can take a late afternoon/early evening train to get there and an early train to leave if you don't spend more than one day seeing the main sights. There are flamenco shows and a horse show at the Royal Stables for your evenings. I would take a night off Seville and add it to Cordoba.
4 B. Consider spending a night in Ronda! The order between Granada and Madrid depends on the trains. Generally it makes sense to go to Ronda, then Seville, then Cordoba to avoid backtracking. Use the Renfe website to see the train schedules.
5. I don't know that it matters much which "end" you start at. Your itinerary seems pretty intense for both; Madrid because of the day trips, Barcelona for the many sights.
6. I like to think that when I was in my 30s, I could go at this pace.

Chani, thank you for your thoughtful response! I am going to respond in full later after work.

Day 5 - yes, I am concerned about how early that flight is. I'm guessing we'd have to get up at least by 4:30 to get to the airport and get through security? I haven't researched exactly how much time we'll need. As far as the show the night before, I don't know what time it would get done since there isn't a show even posted yet. We could do the evening tour of Casa Mila that evening instead? Our evenings will be flexible (right now), since the sites don't have anything posted yet.

I did a quick look at reversing our trip. It seems that the benefit of reversing our trip gives us a much better flight time to Barcelona from Granada. If we left on Thursday, we could pick either 9:35 to 11:00 flight or 12:40-2:05 flight. If we left on Wednesday, we'd have the 9:35 flight option. I need to look at the rest of our itinerary as a whole, but I definitely think this is worth considering (since getting up so early doesn't excited me much and will make for a super long day). To get these times, I am just looking at typical day schedules since I can't find anywhere to look for that far out.

I'd love to know if you have any specific Moorish ruins in mind that you think we would enjoy seeing. We enjoy archaeological sites.

The site that immediately comes to mind is Medinat al'Zahara on the outskirts of Cordoba. The TI has 1/2 day tours there at a reasonable price. You pay for the round-trip bus and the entrance fee. For a few more euros you can have the guided tour. I chose that and there were only 4 of us on the tour (okay, it was February). The guide was terrific. The other 3 were Spanish-speakers but knew English pretty well, so we were able to chat a little bit and when I asked questions they understood the answers. The guide gave all the explanations in both languages, when he switched to Spanish, I took photos, they did the same when he was explaining to me. I caught enough of the Spanish to know that he was telling them and me the same things. I've been on tours in other countries where the English was very brief in comparison with the native language.

What really impressed me in Andalusia is how much the Moorish styles have influenced subsequent building and decoration over the centuries and even in the present. Take a brief look at my photos to get an idea. Just wander the streets and peek in all the courtyards and entrances.

In Ronda, besides the great views and the iconic bridge, I especially enjoyed visiting the Bullring and the "wine museum." I have no interest at all in ever seeing a bullfight, but it was really interesting to walk in the ring and then visit the museum and learn a little about the history, the culture and see some of the costumes (the bullfighters are small men!). The wine "museum" was interesting, lots to taste and some very fun exhibits. I also went to a one-woman guitar concert by Celia Morales. It's an intimate, informal setting and I was mesmerized by her sound and her fingers on the guitar. According to the TA reviews, she will answer questions between songs if she's asked.

There are just so many ways to learn more about the Andalusian culture.

Ok...so I think you will find our new itinerary very much improved! Merida is a priority for DH (we both love all things Roman), so I thought we would drop Italica and add Merida instead.

Chani, your recommendation for Medinat al'Zahara sounds great. I'm doubtful that we will have enough time to see it though since we're planning on Cordoba as a day-trip. Your photos are great -- thanks for sharing! Sounds like you had an amazing time, especially in Ronda.

Day 1 (Sept 26): Flight

Day 2 (Barcelona):
Arrive Barcelona 7:10 or 8:45am (not sure because of layover times) and check into hotel. Do RS Bari Gotic Walk and see sights along way (see Castellers at Placa Sant Jaume at 12), check out Barcelona History Museum, Guell Palace, walk down the Ramblas. Catch Food Lover's tour 7:30-11:30.

Day 3 (Barcelona):
Sleep in. Go explore Guell Park mid-morning. Catch english-guided tour at Sagrada Familia at 3pm. Explore Barri de Gracia neighborhood. Do evening tour of Casa Mila (La Pedrera).

Day 4 (Barcelona):
Check out La Boqueria market early morning. Tour Casa Batllo at 9am. Casa Lleo Morera guided tour at 11am. Catch english-guided tour at Sant Pau Art Noveau Hospital tour at 1pm. Explore El Born neighborhood in afternoon. Watch a show at Palace of Catalan Music.

Day 5 (Barcelona):
Lots of options here. I think it would be nice to get out of town and see some nature since so much of our trip will be spent in cities. Maybe see Montserrat and hike in that area. Take a hiking tour or maybe a winery tour. Or something else?

Day 6 (Granada):
10:45 to 12:15 flight (Thursday has more flight options than Wednesday, so much better!), followed by 40 minute bus ride into town. Check into hotel. Explore city and/or take guided walking city tour. Go on late night tour of Alhambra.

Day 7 (Granada):
Catch early tour for Alhambra and spend most of the day there, including the Alhambra museum. Explore city in late afternoon and early evening. Go to San Nicholas for view of Alhambra at sunset. Go to baths at Hammam Al Andalus Granada either before or after the sunset views.

Day 8 (Seville): 8:43 - 12:03 train to Seville. Check into hotel. Visit Archaeological Museum and the Cathedral and Bell Tower. Go on a tapas tour in Triana.

Day 9 (Seville): Visit Royal Alcazar, Plaza de Espana, and Museo Palacio de la Condesa de Librija. Flamenco show in evening.

Day 10 (Seville): Day-trip to Cordoba (per DH request to move around as little as possible). Mezquita, the Artisan Market, and the Roman bridge. Explore and return to Seville.

Day 11 (Seville): Lots of options for this day, too. Thinking it might be nice to do a olive oil tour, a winery tour (or maybe some kind of combo of the two). Or, possibly take a tour of the white cliff towns. Or we could day trip on our own somewhere.

Day 12 (Merida or Careces): Pick up rental car early in Seville. Drive two hours to Merida (arrive by 11). Spend day visiting Roman sights and museum.

Day 13 (Madrid): Train into Madrid. Take a guided walking tour of city. Explore. Tapas tour that evening.

Day 14 (Madrid): Day-trip to Segovia. Visit Roman Aqueduct, Segovia Cathedral, Alcazar Castle, and Vera Cruz Church.

Day 15 (Madrid): Royal Palace, Retiro Park, Templo de Debod, Chocolateria San Gines.

Day 16 (Oct 11): Flight

Questions:

7) Any particular recommendations for Day 5 (Barcelona)?

8) Are certain nights (like Saturday) better than others for Flamenco in Seville?

9) Any particular recommendations for Day 11 (Seville)? Since we'll be getting a rental car for visiting Merida, we could get it a day early and use it for this day too if it's required to visit something...as long as parking and driving in Seville isn't a nightmare.

10) How much time should we budget for sites in Merida? Should we stay in Merida or drive on another hour to Careces?

Any other tips, tweaks, thoughts?

Julie, I didn't go to Merida/Caceres, but it occurs to me that it might be better to rent the car late in the afternoon (last pick-up hour available at the rental offices) so you'll be able to leave as early as you like for the day trip. If you keep the car for 2 days (to visit some of the hill towns), do try to fit Italica in. On reflection, a good part of my disappointment came from the inordinately long time it took to get there and back and having too many expectations. If you have a car, it shouldn't take very long to drive there. I looked at the website but couldn't find their hours (a problem with many Spanish sights).

I will be in Barcelona for the first time in less than 4 weeks. Kind of exciting. I'm planning 2 day trips, one to see the Dali Museum (probably not of interest to you) and another to Girona. I'm told that Montserrat is the top day trip and good hiking too, but in February, I am unwilling to chance bad weather. Since I fell in love with Andalusia, I expect this won't be my last visit to Spain, so I tell myself I'm saving something for next time. Because of my interest in things Roman, I'm planning to spend a couple hours at the Archaeology Museum of Catalonia and is close to the Magic Fountain. In September the free 15-minute shows start at 9 p.m.

Wow your itinerary sounds amazing! How did you figure it all out in such detail? I am trying to plan my trip for next month in February and I don't know where to begin! Please explain how you got this lol I need SO much help, I wasn't expecting it to be this hard =(

Chani, that's an excellent suggestion about the rental car. I will do some research to see how it is to drive in Seville (good or bad). That would give us more freedom, which could make for a nice day! When we went to Ireland, I loved having the freedom to stop at all these cool places along the road side. Once I delved further deep into it and what we want to see, we may keep Italica on the list then. I think we'd enjoy it. We haven't seen many Roman sites yet, just the major ones in Rome. I want to see Ostia Antica on our next trip to Italy. There are some amazing looking ruins in Turkey at Ephesus as well!

That's so exciting! I think planning on going back is the perfect attitude to have. My husband and I feel that way about Italy. We'll be planning a trip for our five year anniversary there and I hope to go back several times. I'm guessing we will make a second trip back to Spain to see more of the northern sites and possibly Portugal, at some point in our lives. You may want to see the Barcelona History Museum in the Gothic Quarter as it sounds like it has some really great Roman sites and glass floors where you can see ruins below where they built the new city on top of the old city, if I remember correctly.

Hello Irene! I can tell you that I have spent several hours reading a RS guide book, reading posts on different trip sites (RS, Fodors, Frommers, Lonely Planet, TripAdvisor, etc), reading blogs about travel in Spain, reading reviews on TA, etc. I completely understand how overwhelming it can be. I have never been to Spain so I find it so much more difficult to plan compared to the trips to a country that I've been to before. Try to do a lot of reading and figuring out what you want to see and then pull those thoughts together in a sequential order that makes travel-sense. You could then post your itinerary for other people to review! Good luck! :)

Your revised schedule will work much better for you.. Great that you have done so much indepth research! Will make the trip much more fun.

In Sevilla I will heartily recommend the Really Discover Sevilla Tours...smaller groups and very knowledgeable guides. The tour I took with them had less than one dozen people, and the other tour groups had fifty or more as I recall...You could see them following along like legs on a centipede! Also, they can refer you to and get tickets for an excellent flamenco show...get there early and sit on the front row...what an experience!!! Also, be sure to check out the Palace of the countess Librejia well worth the visit. Spelling may be incorrect, but it is filled with Roman tiles that are amazing in their beauty.

Julie - I did think about the Barcelona History Museum, but it's closed for renovations.

Irene - 2 years ago I went to Andalusia. It was my first trip to Spain. I remember I struggled mightily to choose which towns to visit and how much time to spend in each, based on what I guessed I would like to see and do. I was fortunate to have 21 days (plus 2 in Madrid at the end). I got lots of help here on RS and I also used Trip Advisor. A fellow with the handle "Benny Malaga" has spent hours and hours writing articles about everything. They are in the "Top Questions" area of each forum. There are general topics: excellent instructions for using the trains (and buying tickets), driving in Spain, stuff like that, but also detailed descriptions of all the sights just about everywhere. I had a fairly short list of must-sees in most places. Aside from that, I was pretty spontaneous and ended up seeing and doing a lot of interesting things. Other people could probably do in 2 weeks what I did in 3, but I like to linger in places, take time for lots of photos, and sometimes just relax with a drink or a meal and absorb my surroundings. I'll be back in Spain in a couple of weeks, returning to several places to see some of what I missed the first time, and adding a few new places (Toledo, Segovia, Barcelona) and hoping to sightsee at a faster pace than usual, so I'm spending a lot more time on daily itineraries - definitely easier the second time around.

I'm surprised Brad hasn't responded to this thread. He was so much help when I planned my trip. Read his excellent trip report here.

First, congrats! You have written one of the best initial posts I have ever read which defines your travel style, objectives and an initial itinerary to match.
Second, I am going to focus on the request of what to do with the extra day. Stay in Granada, but go hiking in the Sierra Nevada for the day. There are a number of amazing little villages offering great experiences to see and taste. Access to the area is easy via bus from Granada.
Enjoy!

Chania, where did you hear that the museum is closed for renovations? I'd like to know if it will be open for our visit. Thank you so much for the link to Brad's report -- it's a wonder to read!

HJ, thanks for the tip on the travel tour. We'll have to look into that. We would love to see the mosaics!

Marbleskies, how do we get to a good place to hike using public transportation? Any particular area / town to visit and explore from?

Hi Julie - Awesome trip planning on your part & great info by the earlier posters as well.
When you posted your revised schedule it looks like you took Toledo off (or maybe you forgot to include it):
Day 13 (Madrid): Train into Madrid. Take a guided walking tour of city. Explore. Tapas tour that evening.

Day 14 (Madrid): Day-trip to Segovia. Visit Roman Aqueduct, Segovia Cathedral, Alcazar Castle, and Vera Cruz Church.

Day 15 (Madrid): Royal Palace, Retiro Park, Templo de Debod, Chocolateria San Gines.

No offense to Segovia (I love Segovia too), but I think you should go to Toledo if you can only do one day trip from Madrid. And if you can I would do an overnight there, but if you can't, then just save it for next time :-). Since you have a keen interest in history and architecture, I think Toledo is a must-see for you.

Julie, not to worry. I went to the museum's official website last week when I was making a list of opening times for sights and it is closed, with a scheduled reopening in "March 2015." Even if that's delayed by a month or two, it should be in full swing well before your visit. I don't know how long it's been closed, but I've found that one of the few disadvantages to traveling in the winter is that off-season, when tourists are few, is when most sights plan their repairs and renovations.

http://www.treksierranevada.com/places-to-stay

If you can fit it in, there is a really good archaeological site at Empuries, near Barcelona. There are both Greek and Roman town ruins. There's also a museum displaying artifacts from the excavations. Also, here's a second for Medinat Al Zahara.

Ha! Now I have more food for thought...these replies are great and make it hard to decide what to do!

Carmen, I did indeed remove Toledo to give us time elsewhere. I very much want to visit it, but Segovia trumps for this trip because of the aqueduct and castle and our time restraints. We try to travel by the adage that we will go back. It sounds like Toledo is worth two days so we will be able to do it justice on a return trip. I very much had a hard time deciding and your response doesn't make it any easier to stick to what we've got! :)

Marbleskies, great website, thanks for sharing! This makes me wonder if we should have three nights in Granada and three nights in Seville, instead of four in Seville...more to think over...

Rosalyn, thanks for the suggestion! Medinat Al Zahara sounds great as well. Not sure if we can see it in a day-trip to Cordoba. I've really had difficulty NOT making Cordoba an overnight versus a day-trip. More to think over...

Just when I think I've got an itinerary worked out, I find Mallorca! It looks wonderful and I've created a second itinerary for us to consider. If we choose this itinerary, I guess it means that we will simply have to save Madrid and surrounding area for another trip. We try to plan trips by the RS adage that we will go back!

Day 1 (Saturday, Sept 26): Flight from US into Madrid or Barcelona

Day 2 (Mallorca): Arrive Spain; flight to Mallorca, arrive around noon. Explore Mallorca.

Day 3 (Mallorca):

Day 4 (Mallorca):

Day 5 (Mallorca):

Day 6 (Granada): 10:35 to 11:55 flight to Granada. Bus into town, check into hotel. Explore Granada, take evening walking tour to explore. Take night tour of Alhambra.

Day 7 (Granada): Tour Alhambra. Visit Hammam baths after. Enjoy sunset views of Alhambra at San Nicholas.

Day 8 (Cordoba) Either take 10:30-13:10 bus or 6:45-9:39 train to Cordoba. Tour Mezquita, check out the artisan market, and walk the roman bridge. Maybe do a tapas tour or catch a show? Flamenco or horses?

Day 9 (Seville): Explore Cordoba in the morning. Take train late morning or around noon to Seville. Visit archaeological museum and cathedral. Take tapas tour at night.

Day 10 (Seville): Visit Alcazar and Plaza de Espana and roman mosaic museum. Walk the Barrio neighborhood. Catch Flamenco show.

Day 11 (Seville): Visit Italica. See a hill town possibly?

Day 12 (Barcelona): Fly to Barcelona, arrive around noon and check into hotel. Explore Gothic quarter and its sites using RS walk as a guide. Visit Barcelona History museum in Gothic quarter. Go on tapas tour 7:30-11:30.

Day 13 (Barcelona): Explore Guell Park late morning. Sagrada Familia guided tour at 3pm (15:00). Explore Barri de Gracia area. Evening visit of Casa Mila (La Pedrera) at either 8:30 or 9:15.

Day 14 (Barcelona): Explore La Boqueria Market in early morning. Visit Casa Battlo first. Visit Casa Lleo Morera with guided tour at 11am. Take guided tour of Sant Pau Noveau Hospital at 1pm (13:00). Evening show at Palace of Catalan Music.

Day 15 (Barcelona): Free day. Possibly see Montserrat? Would also like to visit Guell Palace if we haven't had time to see it on another day.

Day 16 (Sunday, October 11): Flight

Our evenings are interchangeable in Barcelona, as far as I'm concerned. But, I would like to do the tapas tour on the first night in hopes that it will help us get our bearings in the city. Waiting to see what events will be posted at the Palace of Catalan Music so I'm not sure what night we will want to go there.

Posting my questions in a second post.

Questions:

1. Considering the rest of our itinerary, is four nights for Mallorca the right amount of time (or too much, too little)? Just starting to research this the island and I need to figure out where to stay. Soller, Deia, and Valldemossa all look like places we would like (remind me a little of Orvieto in Italy -- which we loved!). Not a big fan of overdeveloped, resort type areas. We prefer smaller and rustic, but would still like a little a place that's not dead at night. We definitely aren't looking for clubs or big parties, though, just a nice place to go enjoy some atmosphere and a drink. For our activities while on Mallorca, we want ample time to explore some of the towns on the island. Also interested in walking, light hiking, and exploring beaches. We'd also be interested in picking up a motorcycle for a day and exploring the island that way as well, weather permitting. Definitely ok with picking up a rental car, too since that seems to be the best way to explore.

2. Should we catch the morning or the afternoon tour of the Alhambra? I'm guessing we might want to sleep in (which is relative, since we're not usually very good at that) if we go on the night tour of the Alhambra the night before.

3. I was thinking that we should consider spending a night in Cordoba versus seeing it as a day-trip from Seville. I'm hoping it will be worth the hassle of switching hotels for a single night (but, on the bright side, it will be our only single night). Recommendations for night activities in Cordoba?

4. Third day in Seville - we would like to see Italica and possibly a hill-town (or two)? Anyone have recommendations of which one(s) to see? Should we do this via rental car or public transportation?

5. What neighborhood do you recommend to stay at in Barcelona? I am attracted to the Gothic quarter...good or bad in perspective to the rest of our sight-seeing? Would prefer to stay in the $200USD or less range but could spend more, depending on the rest of our lodging for the trip. I did see the Arai Aparthotel that is higher and it would be a splurge for us. Looks wonderful though.

6. This itinerary will require us to catch (3) in-country flights: BCN/MAD to Mallorca, Mallorca to Granada, Seville to Barcelona. If at some point our luggage gets overweight do to purchases, how do the airlines fine you? Do you just pay for an extra bag? Anyone have experience with this? Our plan is to have (1) carry-on bag and (1) larger checked bag, with (2) small personal bags.

Julie,

I've read your ideas for the trip and I send you that for elections it' seems that there are some changes in the Merce Programe in Barcelona....It seems that the hall town has decided to "move" the events of 27th (sunday) to the previous weekend...So its it possible that there will be no "castellers" on 27th in Sant Jaume square...I dont' know if you are very interested or not in see them, but I send you the webpage of the "Coordinadora de Colles Castelleres de Catalunya", here you can find the Calendar (in english) :

http://www.cccc.cat/contents/september-53

The information is updated during the year and also it's possible to go to one of the training sessions for free (there are several groups in Barcelona)