Early planning Spain/Andalusia- questions about itinerary, connections, etc

Late September into October is a great time to visit Andalucia. We usually have a rental car, so I’ll let others comment on trains. The one place where you might need a car is for Ronda. The last time I flew from Dulles to Madrid (on United) my return flight was cancelled. I couldn’t get the number in the text message to work and fortunately I had its toll free number in my phone. I was rebooked within 30 minutes through Frankfurt.

Yes, Sep – Oct is a good time to be in Spain.
You don’t need two nights in Toledo since it shuts down in the evening. After my first visit I thought it would be one of those quintessential places to spend the night and was bored, there’s nothing to do at night.
After arriving in Madrid, I would catch the next plane to Granada and work my way back to Madrid.

I completely disagree with the previous post regarding Toledo. It is a wonderful place, especially in the evenings after the day trippers leave. Please keep the 2 nights in your itinerary (we're doing the same thing for our trip next month -- arrive Madrid, straight to Toledo for 2 nights -- my 4th visit there).

You'll want to switch the order a bit after Toledo. Cordoba will come before Sevilla on the train line (you'll go through it to get to Sevilla), so plan to stop there first. Then Sevilla, Ronda, Granada, and back to Madrid.

You may want to consider taking a night from Cordoba and adding it to Sevilla. There are more sights to see in Sevilla, and you could easily spend more time there and not run out of things to do. That being the case, I don't love Sevilla myself and would rather spend the time in Cordoba or Granada, but you might find that you're one of the many who absolutely love Sevilla. You won't know until you're there :-)

I have not traveled to Ronda myself, and I'm sure others with better knowledge will chime in, but I do not believe it is accessible via the train system. I think you'll need to either consider the bus or a car for that portion.

I think two nights is good for Toledo, especially since your first day there will be jet-lagged.

Ronda has train service to and from both Cordoba and Granada, so that shouldn't be a problem. A car would be a good idea for the smaller towns but not needed for Ronda itself.

I'm a fan of Cordoba but if it were my trip I'd move one of its days to Seville.

Late September/early October would be a good bet weather-wise.

Thanks, Dick -- I didn't realize there was train service to Ronda. But I do see those trains on the schedule. And looks like they go through Antequera, which means that Seville=>Cordoba>Ronda might work just fine (or a different order); it will just depend on the schedules.

Sorry to be confusing, ChristineH!

I agree with the 2 nights in Toledo considering your first night will be a jet lag day. In terms of the number of nights in Toledo, I guess it depends on your expectations and everyone's tastes are different. I spent 1 night there and was glad I did. There were still people out and about and wandering the city at night is really cool. I saw there were some night tours of the history and legends of Toledo that looked really interesting if you are into that type of thing. I didn't get a chance to go on one unfortunately.

I followed a similar route as you are planning Madrid > Sevilla > Cordoba > Granada. Worked out well. Can't comment on getting to Ronda unfortunately.

I spent one night in Cordoba and felt that gave me just enough time to see the main sites without rushing. If I had extra time I think 2 would have been better, but I'm not sure about 3 unless there is something you have planned specifically to see those days? I agree with the other poster, maybe take one of those nights and add it to Seville.

I went last month Sept 28 - Oct 12 which sounds like a similar time frame you are looking at. This is a great time to go. Weather was still warm in Seville when I got there (around 90) but not insufferable. As we entered into October it actually got quite cold in the mornings especially Madrid (in the 50s). I am glad I brought a jacket. I had one day of rain unfortunately in Cordoba. The rest of the days were full of sun.

Yes, no need for 3 nights in Cordoba, and maybe only 1 in Rondo. Sevilla is great city and so you could add at least 1 more night there and maybe 1 night to Madrid and if you are bored, do a day trip.

I found plenty to do in Cordoba to keep me busy for a 3-night stay, but it all depends on your interests. I don't think there's a shortcut to digging into a guidebook that covers the city. Certainly Cordoba has a lot more to see than Ronda. I do like Ronda, but for some people a half-day might be enough in Ronda. If I needed to save a night, I wouldn't be taking it from Cordoba in this situation.

Most Madrid-Seville and Madrid-Granada trains go through Cordoba, as do some of the trains between Seville and Granada. Therefore, Cordoba can be pretty readily slotted into your itinerary nearly anywhere. Express trains to Granada are fairly infrequent, so that might be the part of the puzzle to nail down first. You can fiddle around with departures at various times of the day to get some extra hours in Granada or elsewhere.

If you are not totally averse to renting a car for a day or two, it could be helpful to have one for the Ronda part of your trip. While not mandatory for Ronda itself, a car would give you reasonably-efficient access to one or more of the white villages that are awkward to manage via bus. In addition, Ronda isn't on the express-rail line, so it takes nearly 3 hours to get there from Seville or Granada and close to 2 hours to get there from Cordoba. Although, again, I like Ronda, it seems sort of a shame to have that much travel time--and two nights--for Ronda without seeing even one of the white villages. Ronda's a town of over 30,000.

I would absolutely add the extra days you said are potentially available. You need them in Seville. Three nights is definitely not enough time there.

Thank you so much everyone- so much food for thought.

I'll return and post changes but right now I think we may just skip Ronda- we really do not want to rent a car and the connections to/from Ronda are the most difficult to work with. Not interested in a 3+ hour train or bus ride for just 2 nights somewhere. Do not want any 1 night stays and don't really want 2 night stays either!
We don't really care if there is "enough" to do as far as major sights- we really enjoy wandering historic centers with no plans at all, so 3 in Cordoba seems right for us. I can see adding more nights to Seville but probably not Madrid.

We have developed some minor mobility issues so we don't even like day trips much anymore- we prefer to stay in 1 town- "close to home" as it were, see it all and if there is somewhere near that is worth a visit we'll give that place 2 nights.
This is supposed to be just a little bonus trip for us- I might actually shorten it in the end.

Still reading... I do have RS latest Spain book- busy making lists of what is of interest to us in each location.
Any recommendations for other guide books you have found helpful for this region?

I really appreciate all of your input!

I don't do well in the heat, so I'd choose the second half of October. You can see actual daily past weather here for any month for the last 10 years. I think your plan is very good, and dropping Ronda probably makes it even better - and I'd suggest cutting the trip by 1N and adding 1N to Sevilla. I don't think the order of Sevilla/Cordoba/Granada makes a big difference. I'd choose depending on the transportation schedules. Also consider using the ALSA bus lines to/from Granada. From what others have said, they are comfortable and the travel times are about the same.

I've found Lonely Planet guides to be very useful, but for the places you're going and the length of your stays, RS is fine, especially if you like doing add'l research online.

Afterthought - all 3 of my visits to Andalucia have been in February/March. If you can schedule a trip on short notice, you might consider going in early 2022 instead of late in the year. Andalucia is the warmest, driest part of Europe.

So… I think we might be doing something completely different. After making my lists it turns out Madrid and Toledo are of least interest to us.
We do want to visit Prado and Royal Palace but that is about it.

New plan/idea:
Fly IAD to MAD- arrive 7:40

Train to Seville- 6 nights.

We have never hopped on a long train after arrival, just makes me nervous and sounds exhausting but in this case it might be our best choice.
I checked flights - Vueling is out- all flights go thru Barcelona and take forever. Iberia Express has flights but what is on schedule now doesn’t work (1 is too early, the other is late afternoon).

Question: If flight lands at MAD 7:40 am- there are 2 trains to Seville that should work 11:50, 1:30- which is the safer bet?

Do train schedules change much from year to year?

Anyway- Seville has so much of interest to us and we could do a guided day trip to Pueblos Blancos from there.

Found this:
https://exprilo.com/tour/seville-to-ronda-day-trip/
Anyone familiar with this or other tours?

Train to Cordoba- 3 nights
Train to Granada- 3 nights
Train to Madrid- 2 nights
Fly home

That’s 14 nights- my husband is happy about that!

I don't remember anyone mentioning that tour of Ronda and the white villages from Seville, but perhaps someone has taken it. I considered something like it--or perhaps that one--but decided I wanted to spend more time in Ronda than the tour would allow (having been there twice for brief visits), and I knew Ronda was relatively easy to get to (though not rapidly). I had plenty of time, so I did my own thing, ultimately spending a lot more time getting to and seeing Ronda, Grazalema and Arcos than the tour requires. I think in your situation the tour could be a good choice. You will be moving very rapidly through each town, and the tour doesn't go to Arcos, so be sure you're good with its limitations. Certainly the sights in Ronda don't rank with those in Seville, Cordoba and Granada, so if you need to cut time somewhere, I think Ronda is the place.

I like the new plan. Seville fits the bill on what you describe for your interests. There is a lot you can see while there or from there or just “be”. For some reason, I really loved Granada and would be happy going there for a week some time (I had 3 nights as well), but in 3 nights you can definitely see the major sights.

I think the tour will work. It is not a lot of time in each stop but we will certainly enjoy the scenic ride- something my husband never gets to do when he is driving. It gets good - recent- reviews so I'll keep an eye on it and look for others.
From what I can tell the bus to Arcos take 3+ hours with 2 changes, train/bus is over 2 hrs with a change-- not doing that for a day trip!

On second thought the trip from MAD to Seville means we don't get to our hotel til 24 hours past when we took off in DC. I think we'll probably just stay 1 night in Toledo instead- keeping 5 nights in Seville.

Thanks again- it's long way off but it's nice to have a plan sketched out. Going to go as late in Sept as we can - hope that works out heat-wise although I know it will likely be hot.

Hi Christine,
You may consider taking the train to Córdoba on arrival.
This is the route we took on our trip:
Arrived MAD >> train to Córdoba (via Madrid) >> ALSA Bus to Granada >> ALSA Bus to Sevilla >> AVE train to Madrid >> train to Toledo >> home from MAD

Make sure you book your Alhambra tickets way in advance. Pre-Covid it used to be 3 months in advance.

Enjoy your trip!

Edited to add:
If you decide to take the train to Córdoba on day of arrival, I’d suggest waiting to get your train tickets at the airport. The Renfe agent will let you know which train schedule will work for you. You’ll need to get to Madrid’s Puerta de Atocha train station (via the Cercanias train) where you’ll transfer to the train heading to Córdoba.

I am in Spain now. We are sticking to smaller towns and rural areas, so I can’t help you with your itinerary. However, I did want to answer your question about taking a train ride after arriving in Spain in the early morning. We have done this several times and think it works well. You most likely aren’t going to get in your hotel until mid afternoon. If you don’t think you’ll have the energy for a long train ride, how are you going to have the energy for walking around Madrid? Sitting on a train is easy and allows you to do your transiting when you are too tired to get maximum enjoyment out of sightseeing. The only issue is you are taking a risk buying train tickets in advance. It didn’t take us long to get through the Madrid airport on arrival, but you don’t know if your plane will be on time.

Priscilla- thanks but I am curious why you took the bus rather than train, was it cost or easier/available connections?
The train does go all the way to Granada now.
I know you pass thru Cordoba on way to Seville but I think we’d rather do our long stay in Seville first when we have more energy.

We can take the AVE to Seville then fast regional to Cordoba (less expensive same time as AVE). Then AVE to Granada.
The bus takes longer and looks like the bus station in Granada is further from center than the train.
We’d rather have the shorter transits to our shorter stays so we get there and have more of that first day in location.

Carroll- I do understand the rational for moving on by train on arrival and many people are fine with that. In our case it means 24 hours from our departure til we are at our hotel at 5 pm. Not counting our 2 hour drive to IAD then sitting around there waiting for flight. It’s not so much the energy level- but I just don’t think our backs and bums can take that much sitting. I know we’ve been lucky but almost every time we have traveled to Europe we have been able to get into our room on arrival/before check in time. Sometimes we take a quick power nap-45 min or so, sometimes we go out, grab lunch and walk for a bit then return for a quick power nap- that works for us.

I think walking around out in the sunlight would be better for us than sitting on a train for 2.5 hours. If it were not so long I would definitely consider.
New plan gives us that time in Toledo which I think will be a good jet lag city. Just enough time to wander a little, visit Cathedral, have dinner and go to bed. We’ll most likely get a car service from MAD to Toledo.
And we can safely purchase our train tickets to Seville for the next morning.

Hi Christine,

I am curious why you took the bus rather than train, was it cost or
easier/available connections?*

My mom and I visited Spain in the fall of 2015 while the railway to/from Granada was under construction, and thus the trek would have involved a train transfer in Antequera. I chose to travel by bus basically to avoid this transfer and also because there were more time option by bus vs train.
The price was about the same at the time.
When we arrived to Granada, we took a taxi to the city center and it was inexpensive at around €8-€10 😉

Christine -
Just back from Sevilla, Cordoba, and Granada. Weather was low 80s in Sevilla on Oct. 22-25, which was perfect, then turned colder with rain showers over the next week while we were biking from Cordoba to Granada. Your time frame should be good. A couple of suggestions:
Consider taking a free tour of the cities to acclimate yourself. We used Guru Walk and tip accordingly.
We also did a Tapas Walk in Sevilla. Great way to meet fellow travelers while sampling food/ wine
Book the Alhambra months in advance. The Nasrid Palace is worth it.
Do the night tour of the Mezquita in Cordoba. Only an hour, but the lighting/ music is outstanding
We also went to Madrid, where we've been before. Do not miss Sagrada Familia
Enjoy
Larry

Priscilla- that's what I suspected.
There are 6 trains a day now Cordoba > Granada- 3 in the am for about 30-40 euros.

Larry- thanks- will do!
We've been to Barcelona and seen Sagrada Familia
I wish it was in Madrid ;) as I hear the final tower will be completed by end of this year.

The AVANT trains seem to be about 32 euros. Fares on the AVEs vary, escalating as the travel date approaches and others snap up the less-expensive tickets. Not something to worry about now. I don't know about the Cordoba-Granada leg, but I have definitely seen "Train Full" notices on the Madrid-Cordoba-Seville line when checking schedule in the immediate future. The AVANTS, as the less-expensive option, might sell out ahead of time.

Christine, your points about getting on a train right after a flight across the ocean are certainly valid. I like walking around in the sunshine too. We are all different; you should do what you know works best for you.

I think you’ll be happy starting your trip in Toledo. I almost did the same thing, but we ended up going to Segovia instead and thought it was great. It’s a little further than Toledo but still gave us plenty of time to walk around in the afternoon.

I hope you have a wonderful trip!