Buying sharp objects in Toledo, Spain

Was the lesson really not to buy sharp items in Toledo? Or was the lesson to keep your receipt at hand if travelling by train?

Every time I watch “To catch a smuggler” on TV, the first question asked by immigration, CBP, etc., in any of the countries when the detained individual says he/she just bought the suitcase (carrying the contraband) is where did you buy it, followed by, show me the receipt.

Lesson learned the hard way. Keep all receipts and in an easily reachable place.

Personally, I’d be wary of anybody carrying a sword, knives, or whatever in an enclosed place whether they have a receipt or not. In today’s world one never knows somebody’s intentions.

Well, it makes sense to not be allowed to carry sharp items on an enclosed train - however, this isn’t something I have heard of nor would I have thought of it, in spite of knowing that baggage is scanned before boarding. I am really sorry you lost your wonderful purchases! I know it must be upsetting. Thank you for reporting here, to save others the loss of their prized shopping.

Under Article 149 of the Spanish Penal Code you are not allowed to carry any knife in a public space. And a train is a public space.

The security guards are there to keep everyone on the trains safe. No one wants another terrorist incident like the horrific bombings in 2004., and the guards have no way of knowing if you are an innocent tourist or a potential terrorist masquerading as a tourist.
Or even not a terrorist but someone who could have unknown (to the security guards) mental health problems.

They cannot take the risk of someone running amok with a knife in a crowded space like a train.

Maybe other people did have knives, but you were the ones they randomly searched. In an ideal world they would search everyone.

The risks of stabbing on a train are not materially different to those on a plane.

Maybe the receipt would have made a difference, maybe not. It might have shown a lack of intent. to do anything bad.

All good information. Thanks. The thing is Toledo thrives on the sale of knives and swords to tourists. The shops are packed with them. The merchants should in that perfect world let visitors know what they need to do to prevent confiscation. It is also embarrassing to be found unknowledgeable about the rules, holding up the line, feeling hapless. Nonetheless I am over it and on to enjoying a beautiful fall day in Madrid.

Andrea, that's a shame about your purchases. I do appreciate your post. I can see myself going to Toledo in the future, by train. I didn't know Toledo was known for its steel. But now that I do, I can imagine myself wanting to buy some wood handled steak knives as a useful souvenir.

Obviously, even Spanish citizens must be allowed to buy knives and carry them home through public spaces, possibly including trains.

I wonder whether the law allows for this with the receipt? It sounds possible, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered asking for your receipt.

Thanks for the disappointing, but helpful, heads up. Maybe a vendor will ship my imaginary future decorative steak knives home for me! At the very least, I'll know to keep my receipt handy. Thank you.

As I have been reading up on this, I'm concluding that I will have to forego bringing my imaginary future steak knives from Toledo home by train.

One post mentions that shop clerks are not incented to risk their sale by volunteering information to tourists. I'm glad to know about all this, and perhaps I'll ask about shipping.

We purchased chef knives and embroidery scissors when we visited a few years ago. But, we were leaving from Toledo to go to the airport and checking our bags. We decided to stay a few nights and have a driver take us right to the airport, bypassing Madrid.
As an aside, no merchants mentioned the need to keep the receipt handy or asked us how we were traveling.

It is also embarrassing to be found unknowledgeable about the rules,
holding up the line, feeling hapless.

Imagine how inconvenient it was for those behind you that knew law and had to wait on you.

There is however a big trap for unwary travelers.

Replace with, “Tourist should know that …”

… randomly singled out by the security guards.

Replace with “randomly selected” by the security guards.

… I bought as gifts were taken from me when I couldn’t find the
receipt from the souvenir shop without risking missing the train.

Replace with, “the security guard indicated if I could produce a receipt there would be an exception, but I was unable to produce a receipt”

The whole thing made no sense. I was the only person in the security
line asked to produce a receipt and then relieved of my purchases.

Delete in its entirety.

I had a receipt for a pocket knife I bought from a different vendor
(another gift) and that vendor taped the receipt to this package. I
did not understand why at the time but now understand. This package
was not confiscated.

Replace with “I had a receipt for a pocket knife I bought from a different vendor (another gift) and that vendor taped the receipt to this package. This package was not confiscated.”

Delete remaining post and replace with.
So be sure if you purchase something sharp that you keep it and the receipt in a convenient location to show to security. What they do is required by the law, and you want to make their job as easy as possible.

I think I was a little brutal in my response earlier, and from reading subsequent responses, and could have worded it better.

I remember a fatal knife attack on a train near me some years ago, and have myself encountered another such train incident in the UK quite recently (with no serious outcome, but had potential to get ugly), so am rather over sensitive.

It's not as if this is a law which is well known, I'd be surprised if it was in Rick's or any other guide book so this is a very useful warning for other travellers.

Even in the UK there is a limit to how large a blade you can carry (although in this case that means to carry openly)- even as a UK resident I'm not sure what that size is, but is essentially Swiss Army knife size. I have even been stopped on an Irish Sea ferry for having a Swiss Army knife under shipping regulations that I wasn't aware of which said no blades at all.

Thus you could take such a steak knife on a UK train, but would be unwise to use it to cut up your picnic lunch on board.

On my rail line the police do mandatory searches of everyone boarding trains on a Saturday evening (sometimes with sniffer dogs) looking for drugs and alcohol. There is a possibility that anyone carrying that kind of knife at those times could have it confiscated by the Transport Police in such a search.

isn31c I dont think you were too brutal. The guy that is stuck enforcing the law isnt the guy to blame. Blame the citizens that elected the government that enacted the law if you must blame someone. But the guys doing the job are just like anyone else is society ... trying to get by and make a living. Its hard enough I preseume with out being blamed for not be strict enough when someone gets hurt, or being too strict cause its .... well .... its the law. Blame the vendors maybe. Or promote the experience in a postive light so others find out and avoid the same thing.

Oddly enough its not a new issue. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/spain/purchased-knifes-in-toledo-best-way-to-get-them-to-u-s and there is an earlier post too.

Pretty bad of the vendors not to inform when people purchase. But again, not securitys fault.

I didn't know Toledo was known for its steel.

At one time Toledo Steel and it's craftsmen were known as some of the best, but I think it is important to note that steel (the raw material) is no longer made in Toledo, and there is maybe only one, possibly two, studios actually making knives and other objects. (meaning they do the forging, tempering, and polishing in house) Other shops may have knives and other items custom made offsite, and are good quality, lots of shops sadly simply buy commercial, imported items in nice packages.

Bottom line: If you go looking, buyer beware.

And someone should report this to the office of the Govenor of Ohio.

Obviously the security "guards" you encountered were idiots

Nick, does your comment suggest that most guards would have (and perhaps should have?) let souvenir steak knives or decorative scissors go through?

Imagine how inconvenient it was for those behind you that knew law and had to wait on you.

People make mistakes all the time, either by forgetting or not knowing every rule.

I went through multiple security checks this month in Spain with my small (less than 11cm, apparently allowed on trains in Spain and not questioned during any of my checks) scissors - which I didn't travel with after 9/11 until TSA rules were relaxed for small length blades.

Before that relaxation, I once had to mail my mini Swiss utility knife (which had a tiny 1" blade) back to myself when I neglected to take it out of my purse before a flight.

I have gotten caught by the rules in my own country and could easily do the same in another country, so I'm grateful for this information.

"Nick, does your comment suggest that most guards would have (and perhaps should have?) let souvenir steak knives or decorative scissors go through?"

My comment seems to have disappeared. But, yes I agree with you that the "guards" shouldn't have got weird about this and should have let those things go through.

CW, my point was it wasn't fun for the OP ... or the others.

Not too many months ago, I carried a knife through security in Europe, Asia (twice), and Oceana. Forgot it was on my key chain. Noticed when i got home and pulled out the keys to unlock the door.
If I had gotten caught, it would have been 100% on me. So yes we all do screw up. Still o would ho after tge shop vendors before the guards doing their jobs.