Barcelona, Valencia, Madrid in November?

Your time allocation looks good to me! Depending on the day trips you are considering in Madrid, you could remove a night from Valencia and add it to Madrid, but it really is a matter of preference.

November can be stormy along the Mediterranean coast, but is usually fair. See here for historical weather in Valencia, and change the city name in the URL for Madrid and Barcelona: https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/spain/valencia/historic

Mid-November should give you highs around 20C in Valencia/Barcelona and around 15C in Madrid. Be careful, nights in Madrid can be close to freezing at that time of the year.

Good choices all round.

In Barcelona, I like to stay within walking distance of Plaça de Catalunya, walking distance to the sights in the historic center and good metro connections. I don't have a specific recommendation, but you should be able to find good accommodations at €115-154 (that's the current mid-market rate for C$150-200).

In Valencia I stayed at Hotel Ayre Astoria Palace in 2016 and loved it. Beautiful hotel, great staff, excellent location.

I've been to Madrid twice and stayed at Hotel Europa on Plaza del Sol. It's a great location, with buses, metro, and cercanias (suburban trains), walking distance to the Prado and Thyssen museums, and the San Miguel market for grazing through at lunch or supper.

Use the official train site, renfe.com, to find and book train tickets. The earlier you book, the more you save, but the tickets are not changeable. If you've reached age 60, you can get a "gold card" (tarjeta dorada) once you get to Spain, for €6 each, which gives you discounts of 40% or 60% on regular high-speed train tickets.

Gracias. It's been a long time since I had to go on this forum, but I can always count on members for good advice.

Good point about the weather. I just checked Skyscanner.ca. I can reverse our itinerary MAD-Valencia-BCN for about the same price. Then I can start cooler and end the trip warmer. However, I also like the extra days by starting at BCN to get over the jet lag.

I just checked out Renfe.com. There are multiple train stations in each city on the booking site. I assume the ones I want are called "Todas"(?). Nice tip about the age discount. I am 60 and wife is few years younger. I can see that train prices are cheaper if we reserve ahead. But total price may be about the same if I use my age discount after arrival. Can I assume that there will be plenty of seats during November if we wait to buy train tickets after arrival? Having the flexibility to alter the itinerary appeals to me, but my wife prefers certainty and has never been impressed with my war stories of sleeping at train stations in my youth. Are the básico to prémium classes similar the Italian train classes and is it worth it to upgrade? I also see that flights in and out of Valencia are very cheap. However, I've always enjoyed trains and train stations.

Keep the tips coming.

Funpig— Regarding fare classes and seating classes, Renfe has a unique (strange?) structure. There are two seat types, but they're spread over three types of fares.

"Basico"- Like it sounds, basic. The cheapest ticket. In a 2nd class seat. The least flexible terms and conditions on the ticket for cancelation or changes. Fee for seat selection.

"Elige"- Fees for change, cancelation, and seat selection are all lower. Within this fare category you can choose beween "elige" or "elige confort", basically 2nd or 1st class seats. (click "elige" on a train's listing online to see the two seat/price options.)

"Premium" is old-school 1st class. 1st class seat. Lounges in major stations. Food service on some trains. Free changes, cancelation, and seat selection.

Interested in your choice of Valencia over Sevilla and Granada ?

An option I would suggest ….

fly into MAD 3 nights
train to Sevilla 3 nights
train to Granada 2 nights
fly to BCN 5 nights
fly out of BCN

David in Brisbane, the logistics of Valencia are far easier than adding Andalucia, and the OP's proposed itinerary is a refreshingly more relaxed pace. (3 nights in Madrid would really be a disservice to the city.)

Scudder and David: Yeah, it's a big world and I figure that I won't be able to see most of it so I won't even bother to try. My general philosophy at my age is to try to limit my ass time in planes, trains and automobiles so I can maximize my ass time in cafes and restaurants. It doesn't always work out that way, especially when we travelled with friends who want to get a quick visit of as many cities as possible with the hope to go back again for a longer visit (which rarely happens). And I already did that in my twenties when I backpacked Europe for two months and squeezed every possible mile out of a Eurail pass. Everytime I change hotels, I would lose half a day. So, as much as possible, I like to settle in one place and to enjoy what is available.

Originally, I was thinking about ten nights for BCN and MAD. When I looked at the map, Valencia could be "on-the-way" from one to the other. When I viewed a YouTube of Valencia, I thought it would be worthwhile to visit. It is possible I may add another day and include a Cuenca stop.

Eventually, we would like to visit Portugal in the future. We could possibly fit in Seville or Granada with Lisbon etc. which would be closer compared to Barcelona.

Cheers.

Just so you know, map distance notwithstanding, ground transportation links between Spain and Portugal are limited and run infrequently. To get from Seville to anywhere in Portugal you'll need to take a bus or fly. I assume the buses between Seville and Faro are comfortable; I haven't taken that route recently.

Valencia--which is a nice destination (as is Cuenca)--will add several hours to your sitting-on-trains time. Zaragoza (another interesting destination) is right on the direct line between Barcelona and Madrid. You might consider it as an alternative to Valencia.

Take a look at the Roommate hotel chain. Nice, boutique hotels. Very reasonably priced. I've stayed at Roommate Hotel Anna in Barcelona and have also recommended it to friends. It is a block away from Casa Batilo and Casa Mila, two Gaudi mansions. Hotel staff will make reservations for you to those and other attractions. It is slightly out of the over-touristed zone, but still close enough that you can slip into the tourist vibe (and also four blocks away from the drop-off for the airport buses). Friends have stayed at the Roommate Oscar in Madrid. They really liked it. There are several Roommates in different neighborhoods in Barcelona and Madrid. Pick the ones you think will serve you best. They typically are three or four star hotels that in off season run about $125 a night.

I too like your idea of slower travel. That said, I'd switch the emphasis to Madrid. Wonderful vibe. Great restaurants. Locals (entire families) strolling the central neighborhoods well into the night. Importantly, lots of very easy, non-stressful day trips.

Another poster recommended to you a Madrid, Seville, Granada, Barcelona itinerary. I get not wanting to overdo it. That said, I did that exact same itinerary in 15 days and it was not stressful at all. Train travel in Spain is very easy, very fast, and relaxing. And, Granada is truly something to behold. You could possibly do a long Madrid stay, Cordoba, Granada (all easy by train), and then hop a short flight from Granada's very small and uncrowded airport to Barcelona (Vueling flies nonstop from Granada to Barcelona). Regardless, you can't go wrong. Enjoy.

I recommend the website seat61. I Used it to help book train tickets for Nov. It's article on train travel from Madrid to Barcelona was very helpful in explaining the different train operators, seats, etc. I found Renfe's website confusing to book tickets though helpful in identifying times and prices which can vary greatly depending on departure time. Ex 2 tickets for an 1130 departure were $35. An hour earlier would have been closer to $50 each. Trainline.com was very easy to use once I knew the time we wanted.

We have been in Andalusia twice in November and the weather was perfect, warm not hot. Keep this in mind when you plan a return trip to Spain.
Madrid was cool, not cold but it was cold a little north of Madrid.

To me personally, Mar/Apr and Oct/Nov are the best times of the year to visit my hometown Barcelona and my homeland Catalonia: not too hot not too cold and a considerably descend in tourism (albeit we have visitors year-round) so it's much less crowded visiting sites. As per liveliness... with an average high of 18ºC and a low of 12ºC, Barcelona is bustling with plenty of activity all around.

State your visiting dates to Barcelona, share your likes and preferences and you'll get plenty of advice on things you can do/see -beyond the obvious touristy stuff that is! :)

I am still in planning stage and have not yet bought flights. We have added an extra night, for total of 14 nights, flying out on November 14th and returning November 29th. Here is our tentative schedule:

BCN - 5 nights
VAL - 2 nights
Cuenca - 1 night
Toleldo - 1 night
MAD - 5 nights

In my previous schedule I was thinking of doing a day trip to Cuenca from Valencia and a day trip to Toledo from Madrid. Since the two are more or less on the way, it seems to make more sense to just stay the night at each. That way I don't have to double back from Cuenca back to VAL.

I can take a fast train from Cuenca to Toledo via Madrid. So my train time if I set up a base in Madrid and do the day trip to Toledo is the same as if I just went directly to Toledo and spent the night before going to Madrid to stay for the balance.

If I leave Valencia as early as possible and if I leave Toledo as late as possible, I think that we should be able to have a good full day in each.

When I was using Google maps and checking out directions and train schedules, Google suggested the option to use Blablacar. It is too far out to find any available rides for November. However I can see that blablacar rides in the next few days from Cuenca to Toledo use a direct route without going to Madrid, take about 2 and 1/2 hours and cost about 25 total euros for two passengers.

Has anybody used blablacar? It might be fun to sit in a car with a Spaniard and blah blah for a couple of hours.

I'm getting pretty excited with the planning. It's been 7 years since we've been to Europe, and 3 years since we've been on a flight anywhere.

I'm very surprised at how affordable and available Spanish hotels are for November. And they all allow cancellations to the day before check-in. I guess it's a combination of covid and low season. If I have flexibility with the hotels, I may consider not pre-booking the intercity train rides and changing the itinerary on the fly, i.e. deleting or adding towns, staying longer in one place or leaving earlier.

Anyways, what do you think of the updated itinerary?

Update:

We bit the bullet and booked our flights:

Nov 15 arrive in BCN
Nov 29 depart MAD

Total 14 nights.

Your updated route looks good to me!
One-night stays are annoying but Cuenca does not deserve any longer (no need to wake up before dawn in Valencia either, an afternoon there is enough IMO), and it is fine for Toledo as well.

I disagree that half a day is enough in Cuenca if the visitor likes art. Cuenca has a couple of good (though not large) modern-art museums. In addition, the AVE trains go to a station well outside town. A round-trip by bus or taxi will cut into the time actually spent in town.

I guess I missed those museums when I visited! It was several years ago for sure, and I was not leading that trip. Perhaps I will go back and check them out (not sure, though).
I took the opportunity to check the current train schedule and was pleasantly surprised by the number of trains from Valencia to Cuenca. On weekdays at least, there is a 7.55 train that gets you to Cuenca AVE station at 8.53: that both gives you a reasonable wake-up time in Valencia and a full day in Cuenca.
The next one, at 10.40, gets there at 11.37.

Update: I went over the latest draft itinerary with the wife. She was not thrilled with 5 towns in 14 nights. Even though there would be no substantial increase in ass in the seat time or total mileage to add the two smaller towns, she was not a fan of unpacking, packing and changing hotels so many times. Therefore, we have changed the itinerary and have reserved the following hotels:

5 nights - BCN - Hotel Nouvel ***
4 nights - VAL - Hotel Venecia Plaza Centro ** (inc. breakfasts)
5 nights - MAD - Petit Palace Posada del Piene **** (inc. breakfasts)

Average is about €109 (CAD$142) per night which is well below our budget. All three allow free cancellation until 24 - 48 hrs before check-in.

I was debating to stay just 3 nights in VAL and add an extra night to either BCN or MAD. The more I read about Valencia, the more things I wanted to do there; so, we won't be bored nor rushed. Plus a 4 night long stay at the Venecia gave us a 15% discount. FYI, we have already visited the Sagrada Familia and climbed a tower in a 2015 one day cruise shore excursion, so we don't need to fit the SF in this trip.

Wife is happy we only need to change hotels twice. I have not yet booked train tickets so we still have the option to adjust the itinerary, possibly on the go mid-trip.

In case you decide to daytrip to Cuenca (though I'd give Toledo a higher priority), check the travel time from Madrid as well as Valencia. I think the trip would be faster from Madrid.

Thanks, acraven. A day trip to either Cuenca or Toledo is still a possibility. One thought is to stop in Cuenca early in the morning and then continuing on to Madrid in the evening.

I'm in the process of trying to figure out how to use Renfe.

Just for kicks, I did a search for a day car rental in either Valencia or Madrid, expecting that the prices would be outrageous. I'm surprised to see some very cheap car rentals for CAD$30-50. And there's also car sharing where you can use cars by the hour. Are the drives in those areas pleasant?

Sad day that the Queen passed away. God save the King.

In "normal" years, fall rates for car rental in Spain were very, very low, and things seem to be going back to normal on the car rental front, so I am not surprised!
I find driving in Spain to be very easy overall. Even Madrid is not particularly complicated. Plus, Spain overbuilt highways to a point where traffic jams aren't much of an annoyance, except in a few pinch points.

The question is, however, "where would you go with a car for the day?" I'm not sure.

Among your cities I only have been to Madrid and Toledo. I went to Toledo as a day trip from Madrid. I also gave myself 5 nights in Madrid - I arrived in the evening; with seeing Toledo I only had 3 nights in Madrid. In Madrid I liked the Thyssen-Bornemisza Museum even more than the Prado. In Toledo if you see the Army museum in the Alcázar, you need a minimum of 2 hours and probably 3, to see it properly. If you write yourself a detailed day-by-day itinerary you will better see how many days you need for each city. I like your 5-city plan you proposed before your wife limited you to just 3 hotels. If I had a wife what I would do is unknowable. I probably would accomodate her travel wishes within reason. The other logically possible although weird and probably unappealing option is, I guess it would be physically possible to split up for parts of your trip so you can see more while your wife slows down and sees less. In this plan you could both start together in Barcelona, separate after the 5th night, then rejoin each other for your last hotel in Madrid starting on your tenth night.

Thanks for the responses. I really enjoy the back and forth discussions, as much as the planning.

balso, I was just surprised by the low cost of the car rentals (CAD$30). I'm talking with friends who are planning a trip to Maui and they are freaking out over the car rental cost (about USD$100), (as well as the high cost of hotels). If I rent a car it would be just for the pleasure of driving on a day trip and being able to make stops and a side trip if something is interesting on the way.

Mike L, in order to stay married for 30 years, there has to be give and take with the wife. From the beginning, my original plan was only to do the three cities. It was just that when I was looking at the trains I figured I might be able to make additional stops on the way and stay the night. I just had to be reminded that one night stays are not particularly fun.

Depending on how this trip goes, I can see us returning to visit Toledo, Sevilla, Cordoba, Granada, Malaga etc. Cuenca would be out of the way in such a future trip. But like I said at the beginning, we can't see everything.

Cheers.

This is just an FYI.

I went ahead and booked our train tickets for BCN to VAL and VAL to MAD. For each leg, there was only one, possibly two, trains with a preferred departure time and a really cheap price. On each leg, there were warnings that there were only limited seats left, so I decide to book. And the prices were so cheap that it would not matter if we end up canceling one of the non-refundable tickets.

I have to say that I really hated the Renfe site. It didn't seem to display properly on my phone or tablet. And when I was using the computer, significant portions of the website were still not translated into English. I was copying and pasting phrases into Google Translate to try to figure it out. And then there were portions that could not be copied so I could not get them translated. Despite all my efforts, I could not get to the stage to make a payment, so I have no idea whether or not my credit card would have even worked on that site.

I finally went to Trainline and was able to quickly make the two bookings. The BCN-VAL Intercity booking only charged a €1.75 service fee. And the VAL-MAD Alvo booking did not charge any service fee at all.

On one of the Alvo ticket (€15 each), I opted to pay an extra €10 for one oversized bag, just in case one of our bags gets overstuffed and exceeds the limit.

I'm glad that I didn't waste my time fumbling with Renfe. After I finished my Trainline bookings I went back to double check Renfe. The Elige Confort tickets which I had purchased for the BCN-VAL train had increased by €10 a few minutes later. Time is money.

I am reading up and researching each of the cities and will start planning the itinerary for each.

Any suggestions for a good non-touristy restaurant in each of the cities? I would really like to find a place in Valencia that cooks traditional paella in the large pan over a fire.

Do you have any suggestions for any single attraction that was memorable for you in any of the cities? I'm not talking about any of the top 10 or even top 25 attractions, but something that you came across that's not mentioned in any guidebook or internet website but turned out to be a real nice surprise.

Thanks.