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Posted by
691 posts

That was a very thought provoking article! Thanks for posting.

Posted by
2230 posts

The article is fodder for thought, but I guess I don’t feel the need to emote over the EU’s decision as much as the author of the article seems to need, nor to take as much pleasure in US Americans getting their comeuppance.

Parts of the article are deceptive. For example, bad behavior in Europe springs from all nationalities. Follow the link on the two US Americans who carved their initials into the Colosseum and learn that people from Russia, Australia, Brazil and Canada have also done so. Follow the link on the Trevi Fountain and learn that an Italian tried to carve it with a key (gasp... a European!) and three drunk Australians dumped their beer in it.

Posted by
2373 posts

Yes, we are terrible global citizens, we are responsible for terrible acts of vandalism, we created global warming, we are bad, bad, bad, and deserve this banishment. Please! What a bunch of self flagellating rubbish!

Posted by
7202 posts

The article is good food for thought.

She’s preaching to the choir in The Guardian and on the RS website.

The mention of vandalism is tiny and fleeting compared to the whole article. It’s unnecessary and contrived considering the millions of visitors who don’t vandalize, but I wouldn’t focus on it.

Bill, I’m curious why you say “I’m glad.”

Posted by
9074 posts

I yield my time to Allen (Folsom). If I don't I'll probably write things that might get me banished.

Posted by
1201 posts

"What a bunch of self flagellating rubbish!"

Well it is in The Guardian, so what else would you expect?

Posted by
4451 posts

I thought it was a pretty good thoughtful article. When she says Americans "often" behave badly in Europe (Trevi Fountain bathing, Colosseum carving, non-English-speaking-ticket-seller-berating), I have to wonder what "often" means. I'm sure a small minority of Americans behave that way, out of millions who visit Europe each year, but such incidents get noticed as you'd expect so have an impact their numbers wouldn't really support -- just like the small minority of protesters who have looted and vandalized in the US lately. And of course Americans aren't the only source of boor-tourism around the world.

Being excluded from the EU countries is unpleasant and should remind us we and our leaders need to do a better job handling the pandemic. I think that was the article's thrust and I think it was well aimed. And I'm no big fan of the Guardian either.

Posted by
24641 posts

Why would you say you glad not to be able to travel?

I could travel but I won't until it is safe enough for my wife and me - I'm certainly not glad about it.

Posted by
7202 posts

Nigel, Bill explained that was the original title, not his expression, when I asked too. Let’s assume it was the author’s click bait. Bets

Posted by
24641 posts

Thanks Bets. It comes across as click bait in this thread too, I'm afraid.

Posted by
6992 posts

I yield my time to Allen (Folsom). If I don't I'll probably write things that might get me banished.

Included/Related post

Well, we do deserve this banishment, as much as I dislike it. Our response to Covid-19 has been disastrous. And read about the Americans who tried to fly to Sardinia on a private plane and were turned away. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/world/europe/american-passport-privilege-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

It is the Italian on the flight, Federica Fanari, who is the one threatening legal action. I get the sense she organized the junket.

Posted by
1629 posts

Europe need not worry. China's 1.4 billion people are becoming increasingly middle class and will make up America's deficit, and then quite some more. Good luck!

At first reading it seemed like some sort of competition to determine how often "food for thought" or "thought provoking" could be mentioned in one thread.

"Dave, I think we have a winner!"

Self-flagellating? It's the de rigueur thing to do for Americans nowadays. It's hip! Here comes the train, climb aboard the Virtue Signaling Express... Choo-Choo!

Posted by
44 posts

A ton of words where 20 or 30 would have done nicely.

Yes there is a large percentage of United States-ians (not "Americans) that, for various reasons, are choosing to congregate unmasked and are infecting each other.

Yes, this will probably cost me my planned Ibiza Sept trip. (But Spain also has a bad Catalan area problem)

Yes, I think they are selfish idiots.

I am quite sure they don't care what I think.

Life goes on!

My path at the moment is to keep wearing a mask and try as best I can to avoid catching it, and let this limit my life as little as possible (like walking 10,000 a day, etc.) It really doesn't affect what I do a great deal. But I would have enjoyed Ibiza! :)

Posted by
2530 posts

Stop there Kris: "(But Spain also has a bad Catalan area problem)".... don't talk about what you don't seem to know. The "problem" is Spain and its authoritarian manners. But again, let's keep this civilised and not mix politics, shall we?

For the record, I always thought that trying to characterize a whole population is futile as in this day and age, with the high percentage of migrants in all societies (especially in the US), it's rather silly saying "Americans are such" or "Chinese do so". While it's true that in many countries their citizens share certain ways and values, personal behaviour and beliefs which are what drive attitudes are often, well, "personal". This is to say that just because a handful of visitors from the US, full of ignorance, ill-conceived entitlement and prejudices are misbehaving or acting rudely when abroad, it's absurd to condemn the rest of US travellers. Same goes for Brits or any other nationality.

I live in one of the most visited destinations in the world, and yes, many of my fellow residents (myself included) are fed up with unruly visitors, irrespective of their nationality. Tourism is important in my hometown, as much as in most other major urban destinations, but thankfully it's not, by a long shot, critical to our economy. In other words, subsistence is not tied to tourism, we've got plenty of biotech and other health sciences, industry, car manufacturing, tech, etc. This is to debunk some misunderstood conception of some visitors full of... entitlement.

Yet, we've always been an open culture, as our history reflects, sometimes visitors were welcome (trade, exchanges...) others no so much (conquers, military campaigns) but the result is that this is an open mixed society which accepts all sort of visitors, beliefs, religions etc.... providing, of course, they respect our ways. And, as in any other destination, it all boils down to this: respect. Nothing to do with tourism in itself, but respect. No matter whether you're Chinese, American or Martian... you're welcome (in principle*) until you stop respecting our ways, our people, our monuments, our way of life. But again, I'm not reinventing the wheel, am I? It's the same everywhere, right?

Yes, some tabloids will present scandalous headlines because a group of citizens is "against" visitors... fine, so what, we're a diverse tolerant society and everybody is entitled to their opinion, but a "group" of citizens don't reflect a heterogeneous feeling. In general, I don't think there's anything "against" individual visitors, on the contrary, there's a general sense of pride in showing and sharing our riches with other cultures and to get to know ways and mores from other shores. But then, the motto should be "behave like a guest".

(*) Then there's the issue about gentrification and thematization, which affects to some destinations like mine. But this is not due to personal attitudes of our visitors but to the sheer number visiting. But again, this is a discussion for another day.

Posted by
2230 posts

takes a bow

In accepting Mike’s award, I want to thank the farm animals, without whom the word fodder would not exist.