1st time in Spain - 16 nights flying into Madrid out of Malaga

This is a good route, overall!

You do not need a car for Segovia or Toledo: the trains are easier. You are right that there is more to see in Toledo, which is "more deserving" of an overnight stay than Segovia, so I, too, would lean towards Segovia.

With 4 nights in Seville you only have time for one day trip. I have not been to Carmona, and I think that Ronda is too far (you can visit from Malaga!) so for me it would be Cadiz, but opinions vary.

I would take the train to Córdoba, and rent a car as you leave. With a car, you can definitely stop in Baeza on the way to Granada. Attempting both Baeza and Úbeda might be a bit of a stretch, it depends how quickly you visit places.

If you do rent a car, be hyper vigilant about watching the speed limits. We drove from Seville to Granada and the limits were constantly changing within very short distances. Apparently we were not careful enough. Not only did we receive a ticket as a result of the cameras, but the rental company also charged us 50 euros for their "service of providing our information to the Spanish authorities". With that said, we were very happy that we chose to drive that portion of our trip.

I agree that renting a car for that day trip to Toledo is an unnecessary hassle. Also, Toledo is nice and definitely worth seeing. But you could also leave it as tentative—if you're enjoying Madrid and a chill pace, skip and go for a walk in the park (or one of the city's amazing, lesser-known museums). And if you feel up for a jaunt, grab a ticket and take the trip.

Happy for ya'll and we love traveling Spain in October. Having rented cars in Spain I would like to lay out a challenge to you, take the time to research making your journey using only public transport. Trains, buses and subways are excellent and offer the benefit of allowing you to gain more enjoyment from the journey. Simply doing the research will be of benefit to planning your trip regardless of your final selection of mode of transportation.

Recommend you rent apartments where you stay 3 or more nights. Cost is essentially same as a hotel plus benefit of more space, kitchen (saves money, offers opportunity for market shopping, good start for breakfast), perhaps a clothes washer (enables bringing less clothes) and usually a landlord vested in being a resource to your needs. Seek apartments with a terrace and focus on being away from a Main Street (noise).

In Madrid we prefer the La Latina district. https://www.tripsavvy.com/la-latina-madrid-1643759
Madrid is a relatively small old town inside Europes third largest city and HEAVY on museums. Four nights allows time for a day trip of your choice, but I would NOT rent a car! Madrid traffic will chew up a significant amount of your time just getting in and out of the city.

RENFE AVE to Seville will be an excellent journey, buy advance tickets and save money. Check out Man in Seat 61 for learning all things trains. https://www.seat61.com

Recommend staying 4 nights in Seville and foregoing day trips (your list of potential day trips will spend a greater ratio of time traveling to and from with not enough time at the destinations). Lots to do in Seville, very romantic and a place to learn 10 pm is the start of the next day. Relax.

Malaga is the very definition of Condo Canyons, Expat Central and Cruise Ship Central. We have stopped going to Malaga since they enlarged the cruise terminal and continued to swamp the area with people. Terms will be in the decline in October so pool experience may suffer and beaches are "pebbly". Worthy of two nights, but will be surprised if you fine what you seek.

Between Seville and Granada is territory will worth the driving effort (surprised?) so take time to do some serious research on renting a car and venturing between Cordoba, Ronda and ending in Granada. Drop the rental car off at the Granada airport as you DO NOT want to attempt to drive in old town Granada. I would go from three nights to two for Granada. So recommend adding the three nights taken from Granada and Malaga to invest in a short driving trip. BTW: go to AAA and get your IDP or risk paying heavy $$$ if pulled over by police.

Ditto that you don’t need a car for Segovia or Toledo. It would make sense if you had more time and were stoping at other sites along the way. I like the idea of a rental car to go to Granada with stops en route, but you don’t need it in Granada itself. However, of your 3 nights there, you’ll be transiting on a couple of them, so having a car won’t be a burden. Parking will likely be 15-20€ a night, but that’s nominal in the context of the overall trip cost. The advice on observing speed limits is sound. We always drive a couple kph below the limit since cameras are all over, especially entering and leaving towns. Back in 2017 I got a ticket for going 4kph over the limit when I began accelerating just before the speed change sign when leaving a town. Fortunately, I didn’t get the 50€ administrative fees from the rental company. I too am not a Malaga fan, but it’s your trip. Directly south of Granada are Motril and Salobreña. Both have nice beaches and in October won’t be overcrowded with tourists. Also, research some places between Granada and Malaga to see if there are any you might like to stop at just to walk around, e.g., Parque del Acueducto at Almuñécar.

This will be a great trip. October should be good, weather-wise.

I enjoyed a full day seeing things in Malaga and took a day trip to Vejer de la Frontera while I was there. But that was in the context of a full month in Andalucia (not counting Madrid). I'd drop Malaga completely to allow time for Toledo and a bit of breathing room for some exploration of smaller places by car on your way into or out of Granada. Train service to Seville (and Malaga, for that matter) is very frequent and fast; Granada now has some fast trains, but they aren't terribly frequent, so it makes sense to use the trip to and/or from that city as an opportunity to see some smaller places by car, since you are willing to rent for a few days. You can do everything I've mentioned in this post by public transportation (I did), but not all in the same 16-day trip.

I liked Ronda, Grazalema, Arcos de la Frontera, Carmona, Priego de Cordoba and Vejer de la Frontera as well as Ubeda and Baeza. The latter do not have in-town train stations, so car or bus is usually more convenient. Their architecture is very different from what you'll see in the major cities to the south. And there are very few foreign tourists. Ubeda is also known for ceramics, so if you happen to have an interest in pottery, it's a good place to go.

Cadiz is a nice, relatively non-touristy, historic city. Jerez de la Frontera, not too far away heading north, is the best place to get a bus to Arcos de la Frontera if you'd like to visit it and it doesn't fit into your car plans.

Thank you all for your replies, super helpful! I'll definitely lean on train travel more than I planned and avoid the hassle of having to park a car during the majority of my stay.

The Malaga portion of our trip is a bit of a compromise on my part in order to spend some time at the coast and for proximity to our departing airport. I will probably use a day here to daytrip to Ronda and surrounding area.

Marbleskies - Thx for the recommendations! Neither of us are much into art so I figure we'll enjoy the Prado but will be free to explore Madrid's other attractions and neighborhoods the rest of our time there. Will definitely consider scrapping our daytrip idea from Seville. I love the idea of enjoying the city at a slower pace. I am planning to research the area between Cordoba, Ronda and Granada and see how I can make the most of that travel day. I've seen a few posts recommending 2 nights instead of 3 in Granada. I figure we'll arrive late our first night in Granada and the next day will be taken up with the Alhambra for the most part, so the day after we can spend exploring the city a little more leisurely.

acraven - I appreciate the insights. I'm going to see how I can fit many if not most of those towns into my daytrips from Malaga if possible. Ubeda/Baeza interest me for exactly those reasons! They are a bit out of the way but I'm determined to squeeze at least one of them in somehow.

A few other questions if I may..

Does anyone think Ubeda/Baeza are worth an overnight or would that be better spent in Toledo/Madrid or as another night in Cordoba?

Is there any reason to drive between Madrid and Seville or Cordoba? The 5 hr drivetime sounds rough but I've been known to get on the road at 6am occasionally and would consider making an exception for something worthwhile. Merida on the drive west looks interesting.

For one of our daytrips from Malaga, would Nerja/Frigiliana be worth the drive?

Lastly, has anyone rented a bike for the day to get around Seville? Recommended?

Thank you all again!

If I was going to drive from Madrid to Sevilla my initial thought on a route would be Madrid-Ubeda/Baeza- Córdoba-Carmona-Sevilla. Obviously not all in one day. I’d save Mérida for another trip when you could visit Guadalupe, Trujillo, Cáceres, and everything else Extremadura has to offer too. With regard to Granada, since you’re arriving late in the day, three nights is fine since you need no less than 1.5 days to adequately see the city, especially if it’s your first time there.

Hello from Wisconsin,

You like a 'little bit of art'. I was never a fan of the famous Spanish artists, that is until I saw the masterpieces in the Prado. I am now a fan. The Prado is definitely worth seeing. As are the other two great art museums. Schedule a couple hours of each day for a museum. The Prado is a world class museum. The building itself seems to have been built expressly for the art they show. Tip #1: In a museum, never pass up a bench. Staying fresh in an art museum is difficult.

Once you rent a car, your next problem is finding parking. This is not unique to Spain. Make sure every place you rent, and I second the opinion of renting apartments, has a designated paring spot. Or skip the car and do the major cities. Without a car, there is no panic of driving in unfamiliar cities, or for parking. Without a car, you get yourself and your luggage from the station to your rental and then you are free to move about.

I would recommend visiting the big cities on this trip and your next trip to Spain rent a car to be able to hop from village to village and drive the back roads. Trains go from city center to city center. Find rentals not too distant from their respective stations.

More reasons to go back to Spain, the north coast and Barcelona.

wayne iNWI

This discussion is perfect! We are also doing 16 nights and flying into Madrid, but in July. First time in Spain but not Europe. Traveling by train most or all of the time. We do not like to see everything, otherwise why go back? First on our list is the Alhambra, then Barcelona and definitely a couple of days at the beach- thinking of Nerja since Rick recommended it. Any suggestions on the order? Departing from Madrid so maybe leave it to last? Thanks!

wjhart49, I really, really like Malaga!!! I traveled with my husband and another couple, and all of us thoroughly enjoyed Malaga. What disappoints me about Rick Steves is that he treats Malaga like it's nothing more than a transportation hub, and he is so wrong!!! When I told people I was including Malaga in our trip to Spain, they didn't understand why. I had read several wonderful travel articles about Malaga, and decided to trust my gut and not listen to the naysayers, and I was so happy I did. In addition to the wonderful coastal ambiance, there is so much to see and do in Malaga.

The city center is vibrant with gorgeous architecture, nice stores, and lots of cafes and restaurants. The Cathedral is beautiful! The Atarazanas Market is fun and a great place for lunch. We enjoyed walking along the seaside promenade and having drinks at a cafe while watching the sunset. One of our highlights was walking to the top of the Alcazaba. There are towers, pathways, gateways, Roman columns, arches, and patios with fountains and a small Nasrid Palace. And beautiful gardens with lush flowers and greenery. And stunning views of the city, port, and the Mediterranean. And if you still have energy, you can walk to the top of the Castillo de Gibralfaro. If you like art, there are tons of small art museums. We enjoyed the Picasso Museum.

We spent 2 nights in Malaga and wished we had a 3rd night. We were there in late September 2017, and the beach season was winding down. Not sure what it will be like in October.

I haven't been to the white towns so can't comment.

Regarding Seville, you might find you need 3 full days/4 nights in Seville (without daytrips). We certainly did.

If it were my trip, I would take one night from Malaga and add it to Cordoba. I would take one night from Granada and spend at least one night in Toledo. If you can't do this, I would visit Toledo as a day trip. My philosophy is that seeing Toledo as a daytrip is better than not visiting Toledo at all. Unless you think you will return to Spain and include Toledo at that time.

And you are very smart in doing an open-jaw/multi-city ticket. This way you are not wasting time by having to return to Madrid

You asked for some off the beaten path points of interest. We really enjoyed the small but beautiful Casa di Pilatos in Seville. Not crowded at all. And Palacio de Viana in Cordoba with its lovely 12 patios. Again, not very crowded. It's not off the beaten path, but plan some time to wander around the Triana neighborhood in Seville.

How close do you want to be to Malaga for the departure?
I liked the town okay--it's got a pleasant low-key vibe--but I would not put four nights there.
I was recently pondering a trip and was considering Gaucin, about an hour and a half from Malaga. If you put all of your time for exploring white towns at the end here, this is when you might want a car.

Wayne - Appreciate the tip about benches! I have a feeling we'll need it. I for one, am excited to see the Prado, and I believe my wife will be pleasantly surprised once inside.

kmkwoo - Thank you for your Malaga perspective! I'm running across the same thing in my research. Seems like in recent years it has become more of a place to see/stay and I'm interested the mix of coastal vibe/history as a change of pace from the rest of Andalucia. Will have to reconsider Toledo or an extra night in Cordoba, such hard choices! I am adding Casa di Pilatos and Palacio de Viana to our list thank you so much.

valadephia - I'm open to as far as an hour away. My main concern though is making sure we make our morning flight out and I'm not sure if staying that far away would be a mistake. Gaucin definitely peaks my interest, I'll look into it.

Ubeda and Baeza are certainly worth a night, but so are many other places you don't have time for. Whether I'd recommend a night in Ubeda/Baeza or another night in Madrid would depend on how many nights you have in Madrid. Madrid is not as old a city as many others in Spain, so I don't find it quite as interesting to wander around. Someone who enjoys bars and nightlife would certainly have a different reaction.

Merida shouldn't make the cut on this trip, I don't think. It does have Roman ruins, and I enjoyed the archaeological museum (mostly for the mosaics), but Merida is otherwise not a particularly attractive place. For me Caceres is the #1 destination in Extremadura.

wjhart49, we were thinking along the same lines as you. We were looking for a coastal destination with some history as a change from inland Andalucia. In September it was still hot in Andalucia, especially Seville, but it was cooler in Malaga, high 70's I think, so that was a refreshing change from the mid 80's to mid 90's.

Glad to hear Beth feels the same way!

And as Beth mentions, we also used ALSA bus several times because in 2017 the train tracks to/from Granada weren't finished yet. ALSA bus is wonderful, clean, efficient, modern. It's a great alternative to the trains.

@Beth - when the Euro was first introduced the rate was about $1/1€. The dollar was worth slightly more; $10 would get you 10.5€. Locking in a rate will only be good if locking in in dollars since the Euro exchange rate changes minute by minute and could be 1.25 next month.

It is good planning for a trip, I am from Malaga and I currently work in a rent a car, CarGest, I do not want to sponsor anything, I just tell you that in addition to Toledo, the northern part of Spain, Galicia, Cantabria, Asturias, Navarra, etc. It is totally different from the rest of Spanish cities and it is worth spending 10-15 days in that area.

I personally did it last summer and it was wonderful.