Argyll and Bute, Scotland

You can hire a car in Oban, you'll need to contact the agents to request an automatic if that's what you prefer, most cars will be manual. From there it's a stunning two hour drive to Carradale.

I would not attempt it on public transport at all, public transport in rural Scotland tends to be ok to get you from your village to your nearest large town. Anything beyond it such as this, a longer trip over multiple bus routes, will just take an age and with the potential for a delay to cause you to miss a connection and be stuck somewhere.

Olivia, that's quite tempting. Is it fairly rural? I would not be concerned at all except that the driving on the opposite side of the road makes me nervous. The directions seem quite straight forward.

Yes it's very rural. Once you get off the main road at Kennadale, the road is mostly single track with occasional passing places eg

https://maps.app.goo.gl/i49dVYzotKNr1987A?g_st=ac

Driving on the opposite site is not challenging per se, and as brits we have to do it just about every time we go anywhere that is not Ireland. I find you adapt in about ten minutes.

The challenge for you as an American is that the roads just demand more concentration, they are narrower, there are lots more roundabouts, and the locals who are used to all the above will appear to be flying past (although I will say in general British drivers are very courteous)

Are you also intending going to Cumnock? We don't seem to have dates yet for this year, but based on last year you will only just have missed the Cumnock Tryst- quite an important musical and cultural festival in the area- nothing touristy about it, the absolute real deal. Although best done from Glasgow it can be visited from Edinburgh.
Indeed, mercifully, the tourist economy doesn't even seem to have heard of the Tryst- a purely local thing.

At Carradale you will meet buses on that road as there are 4 buses a day from Campbeltown.

It is also possible to fly from Glasgow to Campbeltown with Loganair (a wonderfully scenic flight), and rent a car there. Like at Oban they are local car hirers so one way rentals are not possible.
But from Campbeltown there are Citylink buses to Lochgilphead for connections to Oban.

Time is your enemy here, because you could drive from (Edinburgh) to Cumnock to Troon/Ardrossan (whichever of the ports is then in use in this never ending game of musical chairs) over to Arran (1 night), around Arran, then the ferry over from Lochranza to Claonaig (for Skipness Castle) then the Kintyre 66 road route down to Carradale, on to Campbeltown then up the other side of the Kintyre peninsula on the main road to Oban.
Everyone here turns north from Claonaig for Oban and ignores the Kintyre 66, which is a real shame. And if Mull becomes untenable due to a certain Motor Rally the Isle of Gigha is just off the K66- one of those little gems of an island.

At Cumnock there are two good little museums- the Baird Institute (Thursday to Saturday) and the Cumnock Heritage Centre (Friday and certain Sundays).

Also, just outside Cumnock, there is Dumfries House- another place which international tourism ignores, but is well known domestically- https://dumfries-house.org.uk/

Fabulous information, Stuart. So, I need to talk to my mother and find out what is meaningful for her. My ancestor (great,great,great grandfather, was Born and baptized in New Cumnock, Ayeshire (some records say Waterhead, some say Old Cumnock, not sure what that all means) He emigrated in about 1830. I haven't found records of where he was last living in Scotland. His father and mother who stayed in Scotland had various residences on census records of Saddell and Skipness, maybe had a house in Cour, his father died and buried in Carradale. His mother died in Gallanach (15 minute drive from Oban) and is also interred in Carradale. Cemetery pictures (Waterfoot) show fencing around the cemetery. I could climb over the brick wall, mom obviously couldn't, and I'm not going to break laws. I have an email to the municipality or whoever is responsible for the cemetery to find out about access.

So, Cumnock and Carradale aren't all that close, transportation wise. We can't go to both. Unless I cut Glencoe or Mull, Iona, I'd have to add a day to go to one of the places. Cumnock looks like a lovely area with a few places to see. Argyll and Bute sounds like a stunning place and is only a couple hour drive from Oban. I know what my vote would be. Maybe, the Isle of Gigha, would be a good substitute for Mull, Iona?

Cumnock, we can get to with public transportation. Carradale, I'd have to rent a car out of Oban, needs to be an automatic. If I did that, was giving some thought of renting a car for two days and driving to Glencoe one day and Carradale the other. Then I'd just stay one night in Fort William to do the scenic train ride. I can't say I'm thrilled to drive. When my husband and I travel, he drives and I navigate, and I am an extra set of eyes especially in countries that drive on the "wrong" side of the road.

Interesting side note, one of my mother's relatives told her that one of her Scottish relatives did a tv show in the 70s and 80s. Last name is Weir, I think the first name is Tom. Looks like I can watch on the internet.

The challenge for you as an American is that the roads just demand more concentration, they are narrower, there are lots more roundabouts, and the locals who are used to all the above will appear to be flying past (although I will say in general British drivers are very courteous)

I agree with everything Olivia said above, but I will also say that if I can do it, Jules, so can you. You just take your time, and there are a couple of videos that you can watch so that you get to know the etiquette of driving on single-track roads (and yes, there is a certain etiquette). Here's one to get you started: Driving on Single Track Roads. The only other real issue is that there is no shoulder on those single-track roads, so you have to be careful to stay within the lanes, because if you go off, you could wind up hurting a tire. But I drove in Scotland for almost 3 weeks (mostly on the islands and in the Highlands) and never once went off into the side.

I do agree that roundabouts can be confusing, because obviously you're turning left into the circle as opposed to right. That said, generally the single roundabouts are fine. It's the roundabouts with multiple lanes that can be a little tricky, but if you just keep your eye on your phone or on CarPlay so that you can actually see your car moving, that helps to get you in the right place.

I know it sounds strange, but it really does work. If you get in there and get confused, just keep going in the circle until you figure it out. I've done that a number of times. But again, most of the multiple lane roundabouts are in the cities (or outskirts). You usually will not find too many (if any) of those on the islands. It will mostly be one lane there.

Oh, goodness, Tom Weir and "Weir's Way". As they say they just don't make presenters or TV shows like that now.

Weir's Way was a fantastic TV show, much missed. I haven't seen it, but there is a statue of him at Balmaha- bus from Alexandria station (Glasgow suburban trains) or the better way is a boat trip from Luss across Loch Lomond.

I fear your schedule is being pushed beyond breaking point!!

I am a great proponent of the Isle of Gigha- I love the place, it was an island bought from the Laird by the people and has benefited from that. Great beaches (maybe not in October) and the well known Achamore Gardens.

There is a hotel at Carradale, and two Castles you can stay at on the K66 (don't know their minimum stays- Saddell and Torrisdale (the latter also has a gin distillery and tea room).

She voted a trip to Carradale. I sent an email to a car rental that came up for Oban for information.

I'm pretty experienced with roundabouts. They are "infiltrating" my community and we've done them frequently in our travels. Our first experience with "wrong" way roundabouts was leaving Auckland airport. Immediately a 3 lane round about! My husband got very wide eyed. I said, follow the cars and pull over when safe! We stopped, looked at a map and got our wits about us! Since then we've traveled in England, Australia and soon Ireland. Perhaps, I'll see if I can add myself for Ireland and do a bit of the driving.

Any thoughts on dropping Mull, Iona in favor of the Kintyre Penisula and Isle of Gigha? And thoughts on driving to Glencoe?

I'm looking at a map of Isle of Gigha. I'm not clear on which roads are for cars, and google is telling me that some roads are private. Is the island good for sightseeing by car? Mom hasn't riden a bike in at least 25 years.

Ah, Google Maps. I was looking earlier for the driving route from Cumnock to Carradale, and it told me to take the ferry from Ardrossan to Campbeltown (which hasn't run since Covid).
This week there is a road closure in the Yorkshire Dales at Ribblehead Viaduct- it's been bedlam because Google Maps hasn't shown that, so people have been thinking the road closed signs were just ornaments, then finding big machinery on the road blocking their way.

On Gigha the main north south road from Port Mor at the top all the way to just past the heliport. The pier down there isn't public- it is where the ferry berths overnight. Also the wee link road from the ferry slip. The road to Mill Loch is also in theory public if rather skinny.
The only non public roads I can think of are those beyond Kilchattan Old Church (just above Achamore House) and the dead end road to Leim farm just before the heliport.
The general speed limit is 20mph on the spine road but 10mph on side roads such as to Mill Loch. Most other side roads are merely to crofts so you wouldn't be using them anyway.

So on Isle of Gigha we'd be ok relying on a car and short walks? In terms of views and things to do, could this replace Mull and Iona?

I will just make an alternative suggestion and say visit Islay rather than Mull- you can get the ferry from Kennacraig (at the top of the Mull of Kintyre)- it is such a beautiful place, maybe my favourite place I've ever been in Scotland. Good luck with everything, sounds like a very interesting and meaningful trip.

Put it like this, I have never ridden a bike so while I don't doubt that a bike is best for Gigha I haven't used one, and I was there for 3 nights once. In case you were wondering the helipad is there for medivacs. The island has an ambulance (I've stayed with her on her croft Bed and Breakfast), but if it's a serious case needing more than local hospitals can treat, then someone would be air lifted out (at tax payers expense) to Oban or Glasgow due to the very long road journey.

What makes this difficult is the mistiming with the Mull rally- it just makes Mull/Iona very difficult. I would concur that Islay (and Jura if you have 2 days, the 2nd day to nip over on the council run ferry from Port Askaig) is another alternative.

It's a rental car, so it doesn't matter if you wreck the suspension on pot holed roads- so if you do go to Islay one place to go to is the American Memorial at the Mull of Oa- erected by the American Red Cross in memory of those men lost on the WW1 American troop transport ships Otranto (foundered in heavy weather off Islay) and Tuscania (sunk by a German submarine off Islay). Those lost on the Tuscania were buried on the island, but later repatriated.
It is both a moving and dramatic (scenically) location.

Thank you for all the suggestions!

What I've determined would work best is to rent a car in Fort William for two days and return in Oban. I would leave Fort William, stop in Glencoe, and continue on to Oban. The following day we'd do the Kintyre Peninsula and then return the car. This would mean I could get in what we want to do without adding a day. Seems pretty simple, yes? I've been scouring the internet, and not finding much. I've explored taking a bus to Oban and then renting a car and taking off to Glencoe on the same day. Seems the bus schedule from Fort William isn't conducive to this plan. I am open to busing to the Glencoe Visitor Center and meeting a driver/cab, to do the Glencoe Valley and then take us to Oban.

The Fort William Car Hire Company will do one way rentals, at a price. For instance they charge £280 to Inverness Airport. I think that is breathtaking cheek but then they are a small family company with a tiny staff, it's at least 4 hours of their time, + petrol + parking fees at INV airport.

Ember Bus have an 0720 service out of Fort William, arrive Oban 0839. That is timed for connections to Iona, and south for Kilmartin/Lochgilphead then down Kintyre to Islay, Gigha and Campbeltown, hence why it is so early.

Also, for reference Ember announced yesterday that they are starting a new Edinburgh to Oban bus route on 20 May, 4x a day, via Stirling and Callander. I am assuming (having not seen the timetable yet) that will connect with their GLA or EDI to Fort William service at Tyndrum.

I've just googled Kinlochleven Taxis (Kinlochleven being the larger settlement in Glencoe) and found West Highland Taxis.

Note that they have a fleet of 3 taxis, so certainly a need to advance Book and likely work around contract commitments such as School work.

EDIT- The new Ember service from Edinburgh to Oban via Stirling also calls at Edinburgh Airport at 0839, 1253, 1752 and 2149. They also have other EDI Airport to Stirling buses at 0443, 1045, 1445 and 2059- so additional buses to the Citylink service. All very useful.
The last bus back from Oban to Edinburgh via the airport is at 2217, arriving at the airport at 0059- this is what Ember do well and is seriously rattling Citylink- new routes and new early and late (and overnight) journeys.

Jules,

If you are going to do Carradale in a day then adding in Gigha won't really work (unless you want to drive on unfamiliar roads on the mainland potentially after dark), with sunset being at around 6.30pm. And Islay is a no go, as the ferry takes 2 hours each way.
You probably wouldn't get to Tayinloan (for Gigha) via Carradale until around 1pm.
Say you were on the 2pm ferry over and spent 2 hours on Gigha coming back on the next to last ferry at 4.30, that is leaving Tayinloan around 5pm, so back at Oban just before 7pm.

Stuart, I agree, I’m saving Gigha for when I come back with my husband. I think Mull/iona is the easier trip. So I’d do Carradale one day and Mull/iona the next

The first Ember bus at about 7 is too early. I couldn’t do it with mom, and the 2nd one is too late.

The one way rental cost is staggering. I’m checking a taxi to drive us thru Glencoe Valley and then to Oban. We’d take a bus to Glencoe from Fort William.

Update, I am renting a car for a day in Oban and driving to Carradale, Cour and maybe Campbelltown. We'll stop at Tarbert Castle. I want to stick to the island of Kintyre. I am looking for other suggestions of interesting stops in the vicinity. I'm currently watching Youtube videos of Kintyre. Looks lovely, and I'm getting a feel of what the driving will be like.

I'm looking for scenic spots and other places that might give my mother a feel of where her ancestor lived towards the end of his life. I will admit that I have a very poor background of Scottish history. I've pieced together some history of the family. From what I understand, the family lived in New Cumnock in Ayrshire, somewhat close to Glasgow. In the mid 1800s, the Duke of Argyll actively sought out farmers to settle the Argyll area because they were short of labor due to emigration and famine. My ancestor moved from Ayrshire to farm a 70 acre farm in Cour, Argyll. I don't know if he owned the land or if he was a tenant farmer for the Duke of Argyll. I also see note of residence in Saddell and Skipness, so I'm not sure if that is the same area as Cour. I also read that the Duke of Argyll was of the Campbell clan which I'll admit doesn't mean a lot to me.

I have received a response from the governing body of the Waterfoot cemetery, and it is possible to access it.

I'm new to genealogy and Scottish history, I'm just trying to put together a day that would be meaningful to my mom. I appreciate any thoughts as I plan this day.

Regarding the Duke of Argyll and the Campbells, have a look at the Wikipedia entry, it is almost the history of Scotland itself.

Regarding Cour- I've had to get paper maps out to find it. It is a working farm and 8 cottages down a lane just off the main road about 10 miles south of the ferry to Arran at Claonaig. So not even a hamlet. The greatest likelihood is that he was a tenant farmer.

There is apparently also Cour House (a very fine example of Arts and Crafts Architecture in it's day, now in a very poor state)- https://inexpensiveprogress.com/888/oliver-hills-other-houses/

Unless you can somehow contact the farm (and the website isn't working) it's a drive in, brief stop, and out visit.

Then another 10 miles south is Carradale Heritage Centre, open Thursday to Monday- https://eastkintyre.org/carradale-heritage-centre/ (hopefully one of your days- you therefore need to do this on Monday 12 October if possible, as 10 is Mallaig et al, not sure when you move to Oban via Glencoe, hopefully 11 October).

Skipness is basically the end of the road, about 3 miles in the other direction from the Claonaig ferry. There is also the Castle and Kilbranan Chapel up there- https://www.historicenvironment.scot/visit/all/skipness-castle-and-chapel/plan-your-visit/

Saddell with it's ruined [Abbey]. a Castle (a drive by, as now a Holiday let) and Anthony Gormley sculpture are about 5 miles south
of Carradale from whence it's 12 miles or so to Campbeltown. Saddell beach was famously in the Paul and Linda McCartney video for 'Mull of Kintyre'.

I'm wondering if you contact the Blackbird tearoom (where the Heritage Centre is) if they can direct you to a local historian who can fill in some of the gaps for you. Probably fanciful thinking that you would find a historian like me who would be a bit of a guide for the day- but you don't know if you don't ask.

There is a community page with a lot of information about East Kintyre- https://eastkintyre.org/

That's an interesting story about your ancestor moving to Argyle for the farmland. Which, to my mind, is all the more reason to go and visit the place he moved from, Cumnock. Since you intend to return to Scotland with your husband at a later time, I encourage you to indulge your mother's interest in seeing the ancestral lands. I appreciate that you are the one doing all the planning and that you have other trips in the hopper and that she has kind of sprung some of this on you, but IME, there is no substitute for standing on the ground where one's people lived. You can easily give that to your mother by taking her to as many of these places as possible, even if it means foregoing your own Scotland wish list.
You should absolutely use your upcoming Ireland trip to determine whether you will be comfortable driving your 89yoa mother around Scotland. And if you're not, take a look at the taxi company Stuart mentioned. Pre-booking is essential, especially if you want to visit a couple of sites. And a taxi driver will get you there faster than you thought possible. It might even cost you less than renting a car.
I hope you are able to relax and enjoy this time with your mother.

Stuart and G3RRY, thank you so much for your comments/suggestions. You did really plant a seed for the Ayeshire/Cumnock area. I did do some more checking into Cumnock and New Cumnock. First, I found that Cumnock doesn't seem to have train service and the train goes to New Cumnock, but .6 mile from town. I thought some about renting a car, using a taxi, etc. I looked at taking a bus from Oban, but was a lengthy trip. I am not comfortable renting a car out of Glasgow.

I also worked more on the genealogy piece. I found out that my gggggrandparents were married in the Old Parish Church in Cumnock. The parish is in existence but the church they were married in, is not. It was destroyed/rebuilt in about 1860. The family were tenant farmers at Waterhead, near New Cumnock, which was a castle in the 1600s. A few pieces of the foundation may still be there. While the castle is gone, the Waterhead property was farmed by tenant farmers until the coal industry took over and the landscape is much changed. I found the Waterhead location on a map and have a couple pictures. In about 1850 the gggggrandparents moved to Fintyre at the request of the Duke of Argyll.

My ggggrandparents were married emigrated in the mid 1830s though I can't find marriage or emigration source material. Their last address is New Cumnock and I have them living in New York in 1832 and Wisconsin in 1839. My mother sounded most interested in their journey from Scotland and life in New York which she knows nothing about. Sometime, I will revisit that for information.

I looked at the history museum in Cumnock which looks to be open just a few times a month. I decided to contact both the church parish and the museum for any information they might share. (A few years ago I contacted the history museum in Turin, Poland, for information and the amount of material they shared was incredible, both general and information specific to my Prussian relatives)

I talked to mom about whether she'd like to drop Iona/Mull or Fintyre for Cumnock area. She really wants to see those areas and she felt that Cumnock sounded exhausting without much relevant to her to see. She is quite interested in her genealogy but has always been interested in "seeing and experiencing " Scotland. She was interested that the Duke of Argyll was also involved in/with Mull and Iona, and is interested in the religious piece in Iona.

My mother has what I'd consider decent memory for an almost 90 year old. She read the Eyewitness Travel guide sections for the areas I had planned. The parts that she recalled off the top of her head and seem to excite her most were Glenfinnan, Glencoe Valley and Iona. In/near Edinburgh, she spoke of Stirling, National Museum of Scotland and the Britannia.

I would be amazed if you could even book a car passage to Mull on any of your dates, except 12 October as it is the Mull motor rally from 9 to 11 October - one of the biggest events of the year on Mull, a rally that takes place mainly on public roads.
12 October is when everyone will be streaming off the island. So while getting over that day should be easy by car, getting back might be a bit harder

If I was going to Cumnock from Glasgow I would go by bus changing at Kilmarnock- about two hours each way overall- which I know is academic for you.

Yes the Cumnock area was heavily affected by mining, after deep mining ended it was one of the last places in Scotland to have open cast mining.

I'm not used to such early US records as I'm more late 19th/early 20th century in NY and WA states also allegedly Texas and New Orleans. I know the 1830's is very, very early to find out going passenger manifests.

Thank you, Stuart. I am always amazed at the wealth of information you have! My itinerary has us going to Fintyre peninsula on October 12 and to Mull/Iona on October 13. I think that works with the race? I did find the ferry cost for a car to be much higher than I expected. I am exploring the idea of taking the ferry to Mull and the ferry to Iona, as passengers, independently, and looking for either a tour, or a driver that would drive us around Mull and drop us at the Iona ferry. Given what I'm paying to get us Fort William to Oban, it could be that a Mull taxi is much more than the car ferry plus the rental, but I can hope. It would be ideal if there was a tour of some sort to get us from ferry to ferry and return. So far, I've not found anything. If we do the ferry on our own as opposed to the West Coast Tour package, we could take an earlier ferry to Mull which would gain us an hour on Iona.

Stuart, Last night, I briefly perused some Scottish emigration records and there wasn't much prior to 1850. For U.S. records for that same time period, I believe there was a fire somewhere, whether it was Castle Garden, NYC, or the national archives, I can't remember. An odd thing is that I did find marriage records for the siblings of my ancestor that emigrated, but not for my ancestor. Both bride and groom were of Ayeshire so the search I did should pick them up, and didn't. Maybe they did a destination wedding to Italy or something, haha!

Julie, sorry I didn't see your post earlier. I was in Ayrshire in May this year doing family ancestry research. We visited cemeteries and old farmsteads I had found on census and death records.

At one of the old farmsteads, we talked to the current owners who were very interested in my ancestry. There was a plaque and graves at an older roofless farm house that had some of my ancestors buried there. My ancestors owned the farm from 1859 to 1957. My great grandfather left Scotland in 1888. I hadn't known of the graves or that farm house. They hadn't known of the family whose names were on the plaque.

Most of the cemeteries were kept up and open but usually no one was on site. When we did encounter people, they were very interested in assisting.

I recommend getting a GPS unit with your auto rental. Input the address of a cemetery or other destination and it makes it easy to navigate to. Especially at roundabouts, it tells you which outlet you want, such as 2nd exit or 3rd exit.

Sorry, I haven't done any research in Cumnock or New Cumnock.

In terms of the duke of Argyll, the duke is still chief of Clan Campbell. It is in part because of their power historically that Argyll looks and feels different to the rest of the highlands, it was both a lot closer to power in Edinburgh and more vital to the power in Edinburgh it could effectively be a state within a state.

Hello Jules m
I'm sending a link to what was once a wonderful resource for ships to the US. It has been archived but I have been able to find it. Through a very tedious search I was able to find a couple ancestors who arrived not through New York but Pennsylvania or Canada. Those entering Canada I found to enter the US through immigration in Vermont or New Hampshire. The search function never worked very well as surnames were often written as they sounded phonetically, creative spelling. Then compounding the uncertainty is the fact that passengers often were listed as 'from' the port of departure rather than their home country location. Searching these records is a rainy/snowy day project.

https://web.archive.org/web/20240615150027/https://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/index.htm

Hope you are able to find a clue.

If I was advising the Scottish Government tourist people I would recommend we get an emigration museum and resource centre like they have in Dublin.

In my geneological research I constantly run into "they didn't keep records for inter-English movement" any more than we Americans keep track of moving from Utah to Ohio. I've been to PRONI, the Edinburgh Immigration place and lots of smaller heritage centers with disappointing results. Nothing will get me back beyond 1750. I even wasted money on a website that did nothing but expand my tree to 12th cousins. The fact you got some headstones is wonderful

'Inter-English'? May need a better terminology!

jjgurleyI appreciate your thoughts and thank you for your comments about finding a headstone. I'm not that into genealogy, but both my parents were/are, so I've spend a lot of time trying to get information for them and have felt pretty defeated at times. For my Scottish "people" I got a great amount of info and boost from a website called RootsWeb. I won't admit to knowing much about it. I will also say, that its worth occasionally doing some internet searches, because every few months or so I find more information.

I have a pretty extensive family tree for the Scottish family going quite far back. Its all family records. However, its been hard over the years to get what I consider "meaningful". Like who were they, what were the occupations, etc. Even cities/region was hard until a couple years ago.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "inter English". Do you mean between UK? Or between UK, Canada U.S. or??