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Argyll and Bute, Scotland

This is a long shot, and probably a big ask. I'm bringing my mother to Scotland in October. She is 89. I've been getting lots of help and working hard on a doable itinerary for her.

So, today, she decides she desperately needs to track down her ancestor. I've tried to figure out this for her in the past and was just able to get a general region, southwest of Glasgow. Today, I quite easily tracked down her ancestors and I can trace where they lived and died. I found the cemetery where they are buried. I've never been to Scotland, but I've spent a lot of time over the last month pouring over maps, and this cemetery seems like it would be quite challenging to get to on public transportation. I have information and pictures from Wikipedia and Wiki travel and know where every place is located, etc., but if anyone has anything they want to share with mom on these cities beyond what I can get on the internet, we'd appreciate it. They initially lived in Cumnock, Ayrshire (1778-1841), then they moved to Saddell and Skipness (1851), and died in Carradale (1855), Argyllshire, in Argyll and Bute. Cemetery is Waterfoot Burial Ground, it is on a roadside and not in great shape. I did find a photo of the cemetery and tombstone. Just her luck, it seems to be in quite a remote location. Interestingly, we will be going to Oban which is in the same region.

I'm just thinking if someone on the forum lives or has traveled to this area and wanted share anything, we'd appreciate it. I told her I could take her to Carradale, but that would take up probably half her trip.

Posted by
94 posts

You can hire a car in Oban, you'll need to contact the agents to request an automatic if that's what you prefer, most cars will be manual. From there it's a stunning two hour drive to Carradale.

I would not attempt it on public transport at all, public transport in rural Scotland tends to be ok to get you from your village to your nearest large town. Anything beyond it such as this, a longer trip over multiple bus routes, will just take an age and with the potential for a delay to cause you to miss a connection and be stuck somewhere.

Posted by
8345 posts

Olivia, that's quite tempting. Is it fairly rural? I would not be concerned at all except that the driving on the opposite side of the road makes me nervous. The directions seem quite straight forward.

Posted by
94 posts

Yes it's very rural. Once you get off the main road at Kennadale, the road is mostly single track with occasional passing places eg

https://maps.app.goo.gl/i49dVYzotKNr1987A?g_st=ac

Driving on the opposite site is not challenging per se, and as brits we have to do it just about every time we go anywhere that is not Ireland. I find you adapt in about ten minutes.

The challenge for you as an American is that the roads just demand more concentration, they are narrower, there are lots more roundabouts, and the locals who are used to all the above will appear to be flying past (although I will say in general British drivers are very courteous)

Posted by
11806 posts

Are you also intending going to Cumnock? We don't seem to have dates yet for this year, but based on last year you will only just have missed the Cumnock Tryst- quite an important musical and cultural festival in the area- nothing touristy about it, the absolute real deal. Although best done from Glasgow it can be visited from Edinburgh.
Indeed, mercifully, the tourist economy doesn't even seem to have heard of the Tryst- a purely local thing.

At Carradale you will meet buses on that road as there are 4 buses a day from Campbeltown.

It is also possible to fly from Glasgow to Campbeltown with Loganair (a wonderfully scenic flight), and rent a car there. Like at Oban they are local car hirers so one way rentals are not possible.
But from Campbeltown there are Citylink buses to Lochgilphead for connections to Oban.

Time is your enemy here, because you could drive from (Edinburgh) to Cumnock to Troon/Ardrossan (whichever of the ports is then in use in this never ending game of musical chairs) over to Arran (1 night), around Arran, then the ferry over from Lochranza to Claonaig (for Skipness Castle) then the Kintyre 66 road route down to Carradale, on to Campbeltown then up the other side of the Kintyre peninsula on the main road to Oban.
Everyone here turns north from Claonaig for Oban and ignores the Kintyre 66, which is a real shame. And if Mull becomes untenable due to a certain Motor Rally the Isle of Gigha is just off the K66- one of those little gems of an island.

At Cumnock there are two good little museums- the Baird Institute (Thursday to Saturday) and the Cumnock Heritage Centre (Friday and certain Sundays).

Also, just outside Cumnock, there is Dumfries House- another place which international tourism ignores, but is well known domestically- https://dumfries-house.org.uk/

Posted by
8345 posts

Fabulous information, Stuart. So, I need to talk to my mother and find out what is meaningful for her. My ancestor (great,great,great grandfather, was Born and baptized in New Cumnock, Ayeshire (some records say Waterhead, some say Old Cumnock, not sure what that all means) He emigrated in about 1830. I haven't found records of where he was last living in Scotland. His father and mother who stayed in Scotland had various residences on census records of Saddell and Skipness, maybe had a house in Cour, his father died and buried in Carradale. His mother died in Gallanach (15 minute drive from Oban) and is also interred in Carradale. Cemetery pictures (Waterfoot) show fencing around the cemetery. I could climb over the brick wall, mom obviously couldn't, and I'm not going to break laws. I have an email to the municipality or whoever is responsible for the cemetery to find out about access.

So, Cumnock and Carradale aren't all that close, transportation wise. We can't go to both. Unless I cut Glencoe or Mull, Iona, I'd have to add a day to go to one of the places. Cumnock looks like a lovely area with a few places to see. Argyll and Bute sounds like a stunning place and is only a couple hour drive from Oban. I know what my vote would be. Maybe, the Isle of Gigha, would be a good substitute for Mull, Iona?

Cumnock, we can get to with public transportation. Carradale, I'd have to rent a car out of Oban, needs to be an automatic. If I did that, was giving some thought of renting a car for two days and driving to Glencoe one day and Carradale the other. Then I'd just stay one night in Fort William to do the scenic train ride. I can't say I'm thrilled to drive. When my husband and I travel, he drives and I navigate, and I am an extra set of eyes especially in countries that drive on the "wrong" side of the road.

Interesting side note, one of my mother's relatives told her that one of her Scottish relatives did a tv show in the 70s and 80s. Last name is Weir, I think the first name is Tom. Looks like I can watch on the internet.

Posted by
12239 posts

The challenge for you as an American is that the roads just demand more concentration, they are narrower, there are lots more roundabouts, and the locals who are used to all the above will appear to be flying past (although I will say in general British drivers are very courteous)

I agree with everything Olivia said above, but I will also say that if I can do it, Jules, so can you. You just take your time, and there are a couple of videos that you can watch so that you get to know the etiquette of driving on single-track roads (and yes, there is a certain etiquette). Here's one to get you started: Driving on Single Track Roads. The only other real issue is that there is no shoulder on those single-track roads, so you have to be careful to stay within the lanes, because if you go off, you could wind up hurting a tire. But I drove in Scotland for almost 3 weeks (mostly on the islands and in the Highlands) and never once went off into the side.

I do agree that roundabouts can be confusing, because obviously you're turning left into the circle as opposed to right. That said, generally the single roundabouts are fine. It's the roundabouts with multiple lanes that can be a little tricky, but if you just keep your eye on your phone or on CarPlay so that you can actually see your car moving, that helps to get you in the right place.

I know it sounds strange, but it really does work. If you get in there and get confused, just keep going in the circle until you figure it out. I've done that a number of times. But again, most of the multiple lane roundabouts are in the cities (or outskirts). You usually will not find too many (if any) of those on the islands. It will mostly be one lane there.

Posted by
11806 posts

Oh, goodness, Tom Weir and "Weir's Way". As they say they just don't make presenters or TV shows like that now.

Weir's Way was a fantastic TV show, much missed. I haven't seen it, but there is a statue of him at Balmaha- bus from Alexandria station (Glasgow suburban trains) or the better way is a boat trip from Luss across Loch Lomond.

I fear your schedule is being pushed beyond breaking point!!

I am a great proponent of the Isle of Gigha- I love the place, it was an island bought from the Laird by the people and has benefited from that. Great beaches (maybe not in October) and the well known Achamore Gardens.

There is a hotel at Carradale, and two Castles you can stay at on the K66 (don't know their minimum stays- Saddell and Torrisdale (the latter also has a gin distillery and tea room).

Posted by
8345 posts

She voted a trip to Carradale. I sent an email to a car rental that came up for Oban for information.

I'm pretty experienced with roundabouts. They are "infiltrating" my community and we've done them frequently in our travels. Our first experience with "wrong" way roundabouts was leaving Auckland airport. Immediately a 3 lane round about! My husband got very wide eyed. I said, follow the cars and pull over when safe! We stopped, looked at a map and got our wits about us! Since then we've traveled in England, Australia and soon Ireland. Perhaps, I'll see if I can add myself for Ireland and do a bit of the driving.

Any thoughts on dropping Mull, Iona in favor of the Kintyre Penisula and Isle of Gigha? And thoughts on driving to Glencoe?

I'm looking at a map of Isle of Gigha. I'm not clear on which roads are for cars, and google is telling me that some roads are private. Is the island good for sightseeing by car? Mom hasn't riden a bike in at least 25 years.

Posted by
11806 posts

Ah, Google Maps. I was looking earlier for the driving route from Cumnock to Carradale, and it told me to take the ferry from Ardrossan to Campbeltown (which hasn't run since Covid).
This week there is a road closure in the Yorkshire Dales at Ribblehead Viaduct- it's been bedlam because Google Maps hasn't shown that, so people have been thinking the road closed signs were just ornaments, then finding big machinery on the road blocking their way.

On Gigha the main north south road from Port Mor at the top all the way to just past the heliport. The pier down there isn't public- it is where the ferry berths overnight. Also the wee link road from the ferry slip. The road to Mill Loch is also in theory public if rather skinny.
The only non public roads I can think of are those beyond Kilchattan Old Church (just above Achamore House) and the dead end road to Leim farm just before the heliport.
The general speed limit is 20mph on the spine road but 10mph on side roads such as to Mill Loch. Most other side roads are merely to crofts so you wouldn't be using them anyway.

Posted by
8345 posts

So on Isle of Gigha we'd be ok relying on a car and short walks? In terms of views and things to do, could this replace Mull and Iona?

Posted by
1440 posts

I will just make an alternative suggestion and say visit Islay rather than Mull- you can get the ferry from Kennacraig (at the top of the Mull of Kintyre)- it is such a beautiful place, maybe my favourite place I've ever been in Scotland. Good luck with everything, sounds like a very interesting and meaningful trip.

Posted by
11806 posts

Put it like this, I have never ridden a bike so while I don't doubt that a bike is best for Gigha I haven't used one, and I was there for 3 nights once. In case you were wondering the helipad is there for medivacs. The island has an ambulance (I've stayed with her on her croft Bed and Breakfast), but if it's a serious case needing more than local hospitals can treat, then someone would be air lifted out (at tax payers expense) to Oban or Glasgow due to the very long road journey.

What makes this difficult is the mistiming with the Mull rally- it just makes Mull/Iona very difficult. I would concur that Islay (and Jura if you have 2 days, the 2nd day to nip over on the council run ferry from Port Askaig) is another alternative.

It's a rental car, so it doesn't matter if you wreck the suspension on pot holed roads- so if you do go to Islay one place to go to is the American Memorial at the Mull of Oa- erected by the American Red Cross in memory of those men lost on the WW1 American troop transport ships Otranto (foundered in heavy weather off Islay) and Tuscania (sunk by a German submarine off Islay). Those lost on the Tuscania were buried on the island, but later repatriated.
It is both a moving and dramatic (scenically) location.

Posted by
8345 posts

Thank you for all the suggestions!

What I've determined would work best is to rent a car in Fort William for two days and return in Oban. I would leave Fort William, stop in Glencoe, and continue on to Oban. The following day we'd do the Kintyre Peninsula and then return the car. This would mean I could get in what we want to do without adding a day. Seems pretty simple, yes? I've been scouring the internet, and not finding much. I've explored taking a bus to Oban and then renting a car and taking off to Glencoe on the same day. Seems the bus schedule from Fort William isn't conducive to this plan. I am open to busing to the Glencoe Visitor Center and meeting a driver/cab, to do the Glencoe Valley and then take us to Oban.

Posted by
11806 posts

The Fort William Car Hire Company will do one way rentals, at a price. For instance they charge £280 to Inverness Airport. I think that is breathtaking cheek but then they are a small family company with a tiny staff, it's at least 4 hours of their time, + petrol + parking fees at INV airport.

Ember Bus have an 0720 service out of Fort William, arrive Oban 0839. That is timed for connections to Iona, and south for Kilmartin/Lochgilphead then down Kintyre to Islay, Gigha and Campbeltown, hence why it is so early.

Also, for reference Ember announced yesterday that they are starting a new Edinburgh to Oban bus route on 20 May, 4x a day, via Stirling and Callander. I am assuming (having not seen the timetable yet) that will connect with their GLA or EDI to Fort William service at Tyndrum.

I've just googled Kinlochleven Taxis (Kinlochleven being the larger settlement in Glencoe) and found West Highland Taxis.

Note that they have a fleet of 3 taxis, so certainly a need to advance Book and likely work around contract commitments such as School work.

EDIT- The new Ember service from Edinburgh to Oban via Stirling also calls at Edinburgh Airport at 0839, 1253, 1752 and 2149. They also have other EDI Airport to Stirling buses at 0443, 1045, 1445 and 2059- so additional buses to the Citylink service. All very useful.
The last bus back from Oban to Edinburgh via the airport is at 2217, arriving at the airport at 0059- this is what Ember do well and is seriously rattling Citylink- new routes and new early and late (and overnight) journeys.

Posted by
11806 posts

Jules,

If you are going to do Carradale in a day then adding in Gigha won't really work (unless you want to drive on unfamiliar roads on the mainland potentially after dark), with sunset being at around 6.30pm. And Islay is a no go, as the ferry takes 2 hours each way.
You probably wouldn't get to Tayinloan (for Gigha) via Carradale until around 1pm.
Say you were on the 2pm ferry over and spent 2 hours on Gigha coming back on the next to last ferry at 4.30, that is leaving Tayinloan around 5pm, so back at Oban just before 7pm.

Posted by
8345 posts

Stuart, I agree, I’m saving Gigha for when I come back with my husband. I think Mull/iona is the easier trip. So I’d do Carradale one day and Mull/iona the next

The first Ember bus at about 7 is too early. I couldn’t do it with mom, and the 2nd one is too late.

The one way rental cost is staggering. I’m checking a taxi to drive us thru Glencoe Valley and then to Oban. We’d take a bus to Glencoe from Fort William.