Touristification

We've used Airbnb a few times and found we didn't like having to 'meet up' with someone after a long flight, or try to use a code. A hotel has staff 24/7 (usually) and a breakfast with coffee that I don't have to make myself. Plus, there's more of a vacay feel at a hotel.

Really all you can do as a tourist is what you suggest, stay in hotels and real bnbs. Also there are 'real' holiday rental companies for short term rentals of a month or two. About Airbnb, that's up to the local government to control.

We've used Airbnb a few times when we had family groups staying together. However, I cancelled my membership and won't use them again for the above and other reasons.

Katie

It is a real dilemma for their housing and also some of our tourist locations in the US. I almost 100% stay in the small family run hotels or B&B’s in city centers in Europe, but I can understand you wanting to stay in an apartment or home if you’re staying longer than five days in a city.

I like to stay in smaller, sometimes family owned hotels and B&Bs. I rarely use AirBnB. Sometimes we use it when we are with family.

I like a place where we can have contact with actual people. I love to find out restaurants, directions, hot tips, etc. Likewise, I tend to not use places that are "self check-in"

People say they save money with AirBnB. It certainly has that potential, but I've found once they add on cleaning and booking fees, I'm well over what I'd pay for a hotel. Part of it is we very rarely stay in a mid to smaller city more than 3-4 days.

I understand people like a place to "stretch out". We are usually on the go enough that we are rarely at our accommodation. If we want to take a break and relax, we find a place for apertivo that has wifi. The added advantage is being able to people watch.

In terms of AirBnBs reducing places for locals to live and driving prices up, I totally agree. It is however, a bit hard to draft rules and regulate. I have noticed that in Hawaii that while they are trying to drive AirBnB and the like out, there are families that have a rental place on their property, and it helps them to make a home affordable.

@Jules M, yes, I also avoid any places with the self check-in. I have cancelled a few B&B type places when they sent info about “self-check-in “. Nope!

Now we are wondering if we are becoming part of the problem.

Most likely, yes. There is a reason many cities are banning or restricting AirBnBs and similar short term renting. And where I live we've decided to restrict it.

"Purpose built facilities which employ staff and do not remove flats meant for local families from the market."

I don't think you have to go purpose-built with staff, etc., or full-scale B&B, to avoid depriving locals of housing options.

A lot of small-operation flats I've stayed in were never conceived of as normal rental market products. They were shoe-horned into the attic of a family home, or an outbuilding of some kind, for the express purpose of hosting travelers for short stays during certain seasons and making the owner-occupant a bit of spending money. Fine for a few nights for 1-2 persons, but not as homes. Such places are routinely listed with the local tourist office rather than on commercial sites that demand fees from the proprietors, IME.

Russ,
I was referring specifically to the Airbnb business plan as that is all I have encountered. If there are still "Mom and Pop" operations, I would be glad to look into them. Do you have any links? How do you find them?

thanks
Dennis

What can we do to help the situation?

The impact of short-term rentals is not uniform across all of Europe. Some places are not so good, some places are the opposite. Just one factor, Western Europeans rent .... Eastern Europeans Own. But the argument throws them all in the same pot. As a tourist, one can not begin to know this and the other the truths one way or another. So how can one make an intelligent judgment. Judgments that affect human life, retirements, education finds for children, quality of life and income.

These are not poor, enslaved, ignorant innocent victims waiting on wealthy, all-knowing Americans to deliver them from evil. I would rely on the supposition that the locals in a democratic society are better informed and intelligent enough such that they are more likely to understand the dynamics and pass appropriate legislation; than I am at guessing for them ... and quite possibly hurting innocent people.

So what can you do? Follow the law.

I'm all for following the law! Rule of law, capitalism, gelato! Wow. Good stuff.

Also, I like supporting businesses and business models that, well, provide a good product and aren't evil. What was a big tech company's motto until recently: Don't be evil. Seems like something I could get behind!

I like going local! Support the locals!

I like avoiding Airbnbs too. (Aren't they locals? Am I consistent? Constancy is the hobgoblin of small minds.)

Ah, freedom of choice! Voting with one's pocketbook! It's better than veelvata-- according to some. But that creamy deliciousness is hard to say no to-- especially since it is a perfect diet food.

Now others think Airbnbs are a good. And it's hard to argue that they don't provide a service than many love. And I judge not those who lack my superior morality. Sure, I look down on them. But that's because I often wear cowboy boots which give me extra height! So, yeah, I avoid Airbnbs -- and others don't wear cowboy boots. It's a wide world!

Happy travels!

This question was about Portugal, where I have never been. So I am following the side track of the conversation - apologies, OP.

The logic of hotels being more ethical than air bnb eludes me when you try to apply it as an overarching concept across Europe. I was just in Plaza Mayor in Madrid, where one full side of the square is a hotel built by Cristiano Ronaldo. That immediately sent the value of all surrounding apartments soaring in value and now most are used for air bnb stays. Which didn’t happen till the hotel was built. So now fewer people can afford to live in the remaining apartments NOR can they live in any of the apartments that existed before the hotel was built but are no longer there.

I fail to see how one is more ethical than the other.

The first time I went to Lisbon was Dec 2019 and I stayed in a small Airbnb where I was greated by the owner. That was the start of my love of Portugal, still my favorite country. Since then, I have read multiple articles related to the country, specifically Lisbon, struggling with becoming a top destination, the increase in short-term rentals and issue of affordable housing in the city. While I still use Airbnb /VRBO in other locations/countries, I have made the decision not to in Lisbon or Porto. Perhaps I would rent a room but not an entire apartment. I like to stay at aparthotels.

Wondering, is the goal to discuss Lisbon specifically or just Airbnb in general? I believe each city has different challenges and best not to lump them all together when making a decision.

Ah, freedom of choice! Voting with one's pocketbook!

David, on that one, we are in full agreement. I am happy to see you coming around the Capitalist Dark Side. And there is nothing about staying in a short-term rental that interests me. Im spoiled, I want a front desk and someone else to cook breakfast.

TTM, about 2 blocks away there are, or I should say, were 4 classic 100 year + old apartment buildings. If they had the average for the area, it represents about 150 apartments, of which maybe 15 could have been short-term rentals. But the evil was purged, and those 15 short-term rentals are no more .... the other 135 apartments are also no more .... soon to be a 200÷ room hotel.

Then, a few years later, someone will do the ethical thing and skip over the local short-term rentals owned by Hungarian citizens for a room in that beautiful new hotel owned by a German/Chinese international conglomerate. If skip past the short-term rentals for the fancy new hotels, more apartment blocks will become hotels.

I'm looking forward to it. I suspect that a majority of my neighbors are looking forward to it, as bringing 400+ more tourists to the neighborhood will certainly boost our property values, and when you live in a city where 90%+ of those living here live in a home that is owned by one of the occupants of that home ... higher values and greater tax revenue for public improvements is a good thing for current life and retirement planning.

Me E,
Just asking for the source of your home ownership data?
I did some searching and could not corroborate that. I saw "below 70%" from a couple of sources, but they were just estimates as Portugal does not seem to break out Lisbon specifically.
For what it is worth, my wife and I have stayed in the same building 4 times since 2016 (near Praca das Flores) and got to know a number of people who work in the area. They all complained that they were being priced out of the neighborhood.
Not hard data, just anecdotal.

Regards,
Dennis

TTM, about 2 blocks away there are, or i should say, were 4 classic 100 year + old apartment buildings. If they had the average for the area, it represents about 150 apartments, of which maybe 15 could have been short-term rentals. But the evil was purged, and those 15 short-term rentals are no more .... the other 135 apartments are also no more .... soon to be a 200÷ room hotel.

While this is the case in other countries, if we are sticking with Portugal and specifically Lisbon, this scenario occurring in the area where the concentration of short-term rentals are located is extremely low. Most short-term rentals in Lisbon are located within the Heritage Protection Zones which have very strict rules around what can and cannot be done. Removing those apartments to build a hotel is not one of those things allowed.

dkg, my comments were not in response to "Portugal" but in response to those that made more general responses that about the ethics of, or they would never .... With context, certainly there are places where short-term rentals have done more harm than good, but I have faith that the system will overcome, and things will improve. There are other places where the short-term rentals have provided benefits to the area. For instance, my building now has enough electricity that everyone can have AC and a washer. That wasn’t true until the short term rentals made it practical.

For home ownership I was referring to Eastern Europe vs the West, and specifically Hungary, but only as an example of a variable that makes generalizations useless and beliefs that ALL this or ALL are oversimplifications and often quite wrong. One source for the home ownership rates is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate Hungary on that one is 90.5%, but i have seen other data as high as 95%. Why the high ownership rate? Because when the commies moved out whoever was living in the state-owned property ended owning the state-owned property. Remarkably in the last 30+ years they have maintained ownership well. EDIT: Here is a source that says ownership has gone up recently: https://eulerpool.com/en/macro/hungary/homeownership-rate

But the premise of these comments and all my comments on this subject is that I just don’t know the truth everywhere and doubt many others who are not living in the culture being discussed know anything close to the truth for culture other than their own. From time-to-time good intentions do unknowingly hurt good people and I can see how that might be the case with topics like this. So, my safe zone is just to follow the law and trust that the local folks are most aware of the rights and wrongs and will legislate accordingly.

Lynn the buildings in question in Budapest are in a City Protected Zone and in a UNESCO listed zone. In both instances its only the exteriors that are protected. So only the exteriors of the four buildings have been preserved, not the interiors or their original uses.

dkg asks, "If there are still "Mom and Pop" operations, I would be glad to look into them. Do you have any links? How do you find them?"

Often at the in-country vacation apartment / B&B / local municipality / local TI office sites - rather than Airbnb, etc.

I have dozens of them for Germany, should you be interested in exploring the country's less-touristy destinations sometime. A couple of examples from my bookmarks of places I've stayed myself:

Farmhouse apartment with 2 bedrooms in the Black Forest, €39/night:
https://www.traum-ferienwohnungen.de/13558/

Apartments in St Goar am Rhein:

https://www.stadt-st-goar.de/gastgeber-in-st-goar/#/unterkuenfte/RPT/ab56cc71-d2cb-4553-baaa-13c1cc65d8e5/ferienwohnungen-geissler

Apartment in Bavaria/Franconia (Neustadt/Aisch)
https://freizeit.neustadt-aisch.de/stadtbummel/branchenverzeichnis/ferienwohnung-beck

More of the same - article in many newspapers today: Spaniards squirt water guns at foreigners in Barcelona and Mallorca to protest overtourism

(story is from Associated Press, so it's widely available in many major and minor news sources).

They specifically cite Barcelona (many times), also mentioning Majorca, Venice, Lisbon and "several other Spanish locations."

Russ, good list. Be sure and share it

Happy to share, Mr Ë.

PM me with destinations that interest you and I can take a look?

Just happened to come across this one... nice spot to catch a cruise to Bernkastel. Located in Kröv on the Mosel - Der Weinladen

Every time options are presented, we all win. Thank you Russ