Lisbon is dirty

Sorry that you are not enjoying Portugal. You have to realize that it was devestated by the financial crisis and was a poor country to begin with. With your commentaries regarding the dirty city, your negativity about the three suggested Lisbon walks and your inability to get cabs at the RR station when visiting Obidos, perhaps you should make Disneyland your next destination. I think that Lisbon is a great city and you’re dwelling on things that seem to be of minor importance. I took the walks described, didn’t get lost and thought they were very interesting. Realize that a large city does have some “seedy areas” but that’s part of its authenticity. The exterior of the Gulbenkian wasn’t up to your standards? But what about it’s magnificent collection? I hope that your home town has a museum as nice and that you can eat off the sidewalks there.

I have friends who were in Lisbon this week - they LOVED it! Also Tomar and Porto. I am looking forward to an upcoming visit myself.

I was in Lisbon in February for the first time and i loved it and will definitely be back. I stayed in Alfama and yes it is scruffy, but it is scruffily beautiful. Its real and the the people were so friendly and i loved getting lost in the tiny streets, its what makes exploring exciting. I loved it and will be back!

It is very sad to me that you took the time to write negative things about my adopted country. It really speaks to a limited amount of travel in Europe where buildings, cities, etc. are much, much older than things in the States.
Yes, there are old areas of the city but it is undergoing an enormous amount of building and refurbishing. You may have overlooked the multiple building cranes anywhere you look. And, as one of the oldest capital cities in Europe, it’s age is part of the charm.
For those of us who live here and are dealing with the huge influx of tourists, it’s very fine with us for you to not return.

Portugal is relatively poor compared to other European countries (and refurbishing old buildings is very expensive and beyond the means of older folks on a fixed income), but why would you expect any travel brochure or guidebook (which is an advertising/ marketing material) to focus on the negatives as you have? What is the point? It might be helpful if you read up on Portugal's economy, especially in recent decades.

Well, I agree with havermann, Lisbon (still) looks dirty. And havermann, you are visiting now... a few years ago you cannot even imagine. And some of the places you mentioned on your posts, where not possible to be visited, as they were dangerous. I can answer your question, it is not a cultural value, it is really lack of money (and some tax laws, and some rent laws - for the buildings that are run down - , etc). I believe that in the future things will look better for people like you (and worst for some others), tourism is bringing a lot of capital to Lisbon in particular and Portugal in general, and I believe the tendency will be to improve things like cleaning buildings. One advice: if you feel that about Lisbon, don't even think of coming to Porto (where I live) for, let's say, the next 2 years. After that I believe it will fullfill your standards.

Hope you have had some positive things during your trip, otherwise it was a completely waste of time and money, and I feel sorry for you. Portugal has a lot to offer; clean buildings is not (not yet) one of them.

Provocative thread title aside, the OP didn't say that they weren't enjoying Lisbon, merely seemed to be making an observation.

I was going comment that if you thought that in Lisbon then wait to you get to Porto! But Ms Andrade has already made the point.

I really like both cities and I've been to them both a few times.

Lisbon certainly has quite a lot of graffiti in the centre but whilst I'm happy not to have that so much where I live, hypocritically, I also did think it gave the city a nice, gritty feel. It is certainly lived in and that's a good thing, surely? I didn't think it was dirty, just a bit rough around the edges. What I can't understand is that you didn't seem to enjoy any of the great sights. I don't know where you live, obviously, but it must be pretty spectacular if nothing in Lisbon knocked your socks off and all you recall is the "dirt".

I still hold out that the dirtiest city I have ever visited is New York City........

I still hold out that the dirtiest city I have ever visited is New
York City........

Manhattan proper? That must have been a long time ago. I just went last weekend, and to Brooklyn, and didn't experience that. I suppose there are pockets here and there, but not overall - and especially in light of how densely populated it is and how many tourists it receives. Maybe a comparison to how it was in the 70s would be helpful.

I spent 5 nights in Lisbon this past February and wished I had had allowed for a few more.
Lisbon is old, and that shows, and there is some graffiti, which is not my favorite thing (although my travel buddy loves it!), but I really liked Lisbon a lot. People were very friendly and the public transportation was easy to use.
I don't think that the thought of "dirty" ever crossed my mind.

While Portugal has more poverty than much of Western Europe relatively speaking, the run down buildings of city centers like Porto and Lisbon have more to do with rent control and property laws than poverty or lack of initiative. Rent control laws are very strict and tenants living for decades in a building pay rents equivalent to when they first moved in. Consequently, building owners don't have the funds to renovate and even perform basic maintenance. And they don't have the ability to evict tenants to get market rate ones instead. This affects the older city centers the most because there is where so many people were living 40-50 years ago. Newer parts of cities on the outskirts are fine.

I know Porto was actively engaged in finding public-private partnerships to solve the issue. They found tenants new apartments for the same rates elsewhere, bought groups of buildings, then turned them over to developers for renovations. You can see several examples in central Porto near the plaza.

I still hold out that the dirtiest city I have ever visited is New
York City

NYC might get the prize for dumbest city planning decisions ever made. They chose not to include alleys in the city. While this is common in older cities of colonial America and medieval or ancient cities, much of NYC dates from the mid-19th century on. The result? Garbage in the streets, delivery trucks double parked and an overall sense of grime that has little to do with its population density. It was cleaner than I imagined though, so perhaps they are doing a better job of late.

There was definitely a big contrast between Lisbon and Madrid. I heard that in Spain, businesses are required to clean the outsides of buildings every 20 years. A bigger problem in Lisbon was that the metro ticket machine that worked without problem the first day I was there never worked again with that credit card or any others that I had. I had heard that people love Lisbon and except for their awesome Aquarium, I didn't.

Dear Cala:

"There was definitely a big contrast between Lisbon and Madrid."

Of course. Capital cities of diferent countries. Even I have never been there, I think there is a big contrast between Otawa and Washington.

Right???

Or... let's say... between London and Paris...

or... Birmingham and Manchester.

Ooops... my bad... these two belong to the same country.

Just spent a couple of days in Porto and found it absolutely charming. What ever dirty facades the buildings may have, the friendliness of the people and the gorgeous tiles that one finds on so many buildings certainly make up for it. The train station with its' 20,000 hand painted blue tiles is one of the most beautiful train stations I have ever seen. The small alleyways in the medieval section are special and you can tell the people care for them by the many plants that are set out everywhere. This is a town I would recommend anyone to visit.

Some people just see the worst in places where others of us see the best.

As an added note, almost 30,000 "pilgrims" walked through the various Camino routes in Portugal going to Santiago de Compestala in 2017. It is becoming a very popular Camino destination.

We were in Lisbon last week, and I concur. It was dirty. Years worth of dirt and grime on streets and buildings. Yes, there were beautiful areas and beautiful buildings, and a crumbling infrastructure. I was shocked. I've traveled extensively thoughout Europe. I was surprised. Many people begging. Back neighborhoods were dreadfully impoverished. I believe that Portugal is considered "budget friendly" because the workers are paid inadequate wages. Would I return? No. I would not.

Portugal was ruled by a brutal dictator for many years and the incrasteuxture was not maintained. It is refinishing it’s buildings one by one. They should be commended for trying to improve these historic buildings.

Travel Man, Paris is pristine compared to San Francisco.

We loved Lisbon. Major cites in Europe as well as other parts of the World are likely to have trash that shouldn't be there.

The cleanest countries in the World that we have visited were Japan and Switzerland.
If you think Lisbon was dirty, you haven't been to some 3rd World countries. Take a trip to Cairo, Mumbai or Mexico and tell me what you think.