Buildings in Lisbon centre (dumb question)

For decades, Portugal had some of the strictest rent control laws. An indirect consequence of those was that many landlords either did not have the funds for building maintenance or were unwilling to commit to it since it would not generate any additional income. They were scrapped about a decade ago, but not all of the neglected buildings have been refurbished. I did notice a significant difference between my 2019 visit and my earlier visit in the 2000s, the city had become much less shabby by 2019!

Interesting history there. I didn’t notice so much shabby buildings in central Lisbon but more like buildings in which the higher floors looked to be not occupied while the ground floor is busy with commerce.

There were some shabby buildings but I noticed them more on the outskirts.

Love the cartoon. Woof :-)

buildings in which the higher floors looked to be not occupied while the ground floor is busy with commerce.

I guess owners renovated the ground floors only, to make a quick buck on commercial rental space, but haven't gotten around to renovating the rest? But I'm absolutely not a local so my hypotheses could be completely wrong 😄

It certainly isn't a dumb question, but quite an interesting one.

I don't know about Lisbon, but there is a lot of that happens in the UK. Often, in the UK, that is partly because of the difficulties of creating a separate access for the upper floors (including the need to have an alternative fire exit), and also because many insurance companies don't like insuring residential properties over a commercial building due to higher perceived risks arising from the ground floor commercial use.

But the ground floor commercial use may have no commercial need for the higher floors. It is a difficult issue in many UK towns and cities.

Interesting to hear that this is an issue in certain places In the UK.

In various places in central Europe and the Balkans I've seen buildings that looked good at ground level but had apparently-missing windows on the top floor, which seemed open to the elements. I wondered what was going on, so I find these facts and hypotheses interesting.

acraven, I dont know if this applies where you were. In Kosovo, we were told that many homes we saw were unfinished yet partially occupied, because the taxes were lower on unfinished properties.

In both the RS's guidebook and his main Lisbon walking tour, he mentions the rent control situation as the reason for the buildings being in disrepair. Couple with his comments that the "center" of activity for residents is changing & moving towards the suburbs & newer sections of Lisbon where many jobs are, so there is not a lot of demand for those places.
Personally, I think that is likely glossing over the full explanation quite a bit. Among other things, I'm guessing the decades of poor leadership in Portugal (similar to Spain's dark period) up into the 1970s followed by changes following that period (over-reaction, maybe?) led to Lisbon not really being vibrant enough to fix accumulated neglect. But with the EU and adoption of the Euro, and their neighbor Spain's steady improvement, Portugal is coming into its own again. Folks see the potential it has (tons) and also realize it is not too late to get in on it in an affordable way, so I think those buildings will see their value go up and they will be repaired steadily (or faster) over time. People want to travel to Portugal now (for quite a bit now), and many see it as a good place to live as well.
Will it have a bit or a lot of a gentrification effect on Lisbon? I think that has already happened and will get worse with the usual "locals can't afford to live here anymore" being the main impact. But there are usually other parts of town where things haven't been touched, and the process will move there eventually.

acraven, stan, tom, and all of you:

Thanks for posting thoughts and experiences! Fascinating to see your perspectives and to learn a bit about other potential issues that can have an effect on buildings being in disrepair, or partially occupied, and so forth.

One thing that really struck me at some point when I was gazing out into central Lisbon from somewhere high above was first I had a feeling of wonderment of how busy central Lisbon and central-ish areas of Lisbon were.

Then, as I zoomed in a little more and noticed what SEEMED to be some partially unoccupied buildings, OR noticing that some floors of some buildings all had blinds down (and this was in the middle of the day during what one would expect to be a busy time and that it is usually not so common for buildings to have an entire level or more look like it has no human activity unless it's a hotel, etc.), I started wondering what I originally posted about: wow, am I looking at both a busy and not-busy part of Lisbon? It is easy to miss the not-busy part unless you (or at least I) stop a little bit to observe and start seeing rows of closed blinds from floor to floor, and other potential signs of that nature.

I don't know if some of you travellers daydream in the following fashion like I do: but when I'm travelling, I often wonder what it really is like to live in the city I'm visiting, what it is to be a local in these cities. And it made me feel a little sad to think there are partly abandoned or unoccupied buildings.

It's interesting to know that at least on the ground level, Lisbon is quite busy, but above ground there are some signs of, well, absence at times.

Interesting too was that on our way up to Porto at the Oriente train station, we met an American couple and they were in the process of moving to Portugal. The husband was retired or retiring and the wife is still working as she can 'work from home' therefore can work anywhere. They told us some basic requirements an American needs to show to retire in Portugal and my husband and I thought: wow, this is all quite affordable. It certainly made the possibility of immigration to Portugal like a possibility.

I relayed this story to a colleague who then told me she has a friend (in the US) who have been talking about retiring to Portugal for ages. I laughed and said it seems like "all of us" are trying to escape the US and move to something more, hopefully, sane.

It also made me recall, yet again, just how much my husband and I dislike what's going on the US with its very sharp turn to ultra conservative, ultra nationalistic, ultra authoritarian bend.

And of course, there really are ethical issues to grapple with when we use the kind of privilege and resource access we have to move to a new country and therefore affecting the local situation and local people in both ways that are predictable and not predictable.

Muriel S. You may recall that I also just returned from a trip to Portugal. It was a trip to confirm whether I really wanted to immigrate to the country and to scope out areas where I might make the transition comfortably. Returning home, it is confirmed that I do, in fact, want to transition to Portugal within the next year or two. The Facebook group “Americans&Friends.pt” has been immense help to individuals interested in moving to Portugal. I’m already retired 3+ years now and have downsized drastically in preparation for living in a tiny house. It’s one of the first tasks to accomplish when considering a move.

This, what you said: “And of course, there really are ethical issues to grapple with when we use the kind of privilege and resource access we have to move to a new country and therefore affecting the local situation and local people in both ways that are predictable and not predictable.”

I’ll agree with you to some extent. So, while on my “taxi” ride from the Quinta to train station in Regua, I had a very frank discussion with Ricardo, the young entrepreneur starting a business in the area, about my thoughts. I asked Ricardo “What impact would my immigrating to Portugal have on the local community/economy in the Douro or elsewhere? He replied in a most positive way and encouraged me to do so. Now granted, his reaction may not be the same as a Portuguese mother of two, but I thought it was a bit revealing. I’ve spoken to others (guides mostly) about this and they said so many of their young people are moving away from the country for life elsewhere and there was a decline in the population in Portugal for many years.

Just some thoughts. I love your introspective observations about Lisbon, although I didn’t notice the empty buildings so much. Maybe I was in a different area or I didn’t look up much. lol

A key factor that has not been mentioned above is the impact of Portuguese inheritance laws. Upon death an estate is divided according to strict guidelines. Legal heirs are entitled to a portion of the estate as follows: Spouse, children and parents. If there are none of the above the estate is divided among siblings. There are fixed percentages as to the division of the estate. So let's say I die tomorrow and the real estate property is divided by my wife, children and parents. It is often impossible for all of these heirs to agree as to the disposition of the property so it just sits there. And as property tax in Portugal is extremely low there is little incentive to force a decision. Then my parents die and their ownership gets divided. My wife dies and her share gets divided. Before long the situation becomes impossible and the property is left to deteriorate. Welcome to Portugal.

@Linda wrote:

Muriel S. You may recall that I also just returned from a trip to Portugal. It was a trip to confirm whether I really wanted to immigrate to the country and to scope out areas where I might make the transition comfortably. Returning home, it is confirmed that I do, in fact, want to transition to Portugal within the next year or two.

For us, Portugal is really an enticing place to retire in. We are decades from retiring, but still....

...they said so many of their young people are moving away from the country for life elsewhere and there was a decline in the population in Portugal for many years.

Is that so? It's a little bit sad. I was both surprised and perhaps really not too surprised that quite a number of young people who were staffing tourist-y places were Brazilians or from other Portuguese-speaking countries. I imagine for them, Portugal is a place more ripe with possibilities. Meanwhile, those who are young and grew up in Portugal are finding greener pastures elsewhere. I wonder where many are going.

With what seems like really low cost of living in Portugal compared to the rest of Europe, it really made me wonder if young Portuguese people don't travel as much around western Europe compared to their western European counterparts.

Just some thoughts. I love your introspective observations about Lisbon, although I didn’t notice the empty buildings so much. Maybe I was in a different area or I didn’t look up much. lol

Thanks! :)

@Scott, I didn't realize that about inheritance laws. They seem interestingly restrictive.

On another note:

I grew up in a developing country and some of the ways Portugal runs reminds me of it. You can expect things to be a little wonky or not run smoothly. For example, we bought the Lisbon Card which, as you all probably know, gives us free or discounted access to many sites. We visited Sintra on a national holiday and there were zero signs that many (most?) ticket offices were not staffed that day. We walked from Pena Palace to Moorish Castle (40 minutes? 50 minutes?) and couldn't figure out how to get our discount. The guard who checks for tickets at the "gate" to the Moorish Castle site told us because it is a holiday, the kiosk (where a staff would usually be!) is not staffed and we would have to walk another 20 minutes to go to the main kiosk that is staffed, then walk back up 20 minutes to get our discount (something like 10% or 20% off).

I laughed, decided not to get the discount, and just paid at the machine to get our ticket. We already walked like 40 to 50 minutes from Pena Palace. We aren't going to walk another 40 just to get a measly discount of few Euros off. Later, another tourists experienced the same thing and when they were within earshot, I laughed with them and said, "This is Portugal. Things can be expected to be broken."

The situation is a little ridiculous on several counts. First that there is actually a staff checking tickets but has no authority to apply the discount. Second, there were no signs earlier on to alert tourists that to get their discount on this day, they need to visit the main kiosk because the other ones are not currently staffed.

It truly felt like what I've often gone through in the country I grew up in.

You can expect things to be broken and you learn not to be angry or annoyed, but you learn to laugh, shake your head, and either move on or try again another day. I mean, you can be angry but, why? I think it's an attitude good for Portugal too :)

One reason just briefly mentioned is a change in demographics. Lisbon was a city, a more compact city before growth in the suburbs, of 800,000 30 years ago, now the population is about 500,000. The city is also aging, about 25% over 60. So the combination of the young moving out, the somewhat affluent to the outskirts, declining population, that leaves a lot of old buildings vacant.