ATM and credit card problems

Most US cards are not the equivalent of European chip and PIN cards. I have chip and PIN cards but they work like a regular credit card in Europe. I have to sign the receipt. As for the ATM, I have seen limits of 250 euros in Italy per withdrawal, so the limit in Portugal doesn't surprise me. I would see if you can go into a bank and withdraw more at a time. I'm not sure if that will work, but it's worth a try. Good luck!

Most, but not all, chip and pin cards issued by US financial institutions provide a pin only for the purpose of obtaining a cash advance. They are not the equivalent of a true chip and pin. When in Portugal, I used cash in automatic kiosks. Normally in gas stations, even in rural areas, there is an attendant. You'll have to have her swipe your card to purchase fuel. Watch your fuel gauge and fill up before the sun sets or you run dry and you'll be fine.

Thank you, thank you,
This is all so interesting to me. I taught a Personal Finance course for 20 years, have attended Wharton School of Business, Chicago Booth School of Business, and Stanford Law. I have the education. But the open and private replies I have received are an education to me. Thank you Rick for offering this service. My credit card company has NOT gotten back to me.

To summarize what people are saying:
Some countries limit ATM withdrawals. You might recall that Greece in the middle of their panic of austerity limited Greek citizen w/d to either $60 or 60euro. Italy the national limit is or was 250euro, so I was told that a 200 euro cap in Portugal is very likely. Yes, we checked what our local bank's limit was and it was $530.

One more thought on cash. For a cash society, in just two days we have run into businesses where while completing a purchase and making change for a 20 euro (once) and a 10 euro bill (twice) we broke their till. They had to go somewhere to get adequate change. But let me reassure everyone is very, very nice, helpful, and friendly. Great place this Lisbon.

Chip and PIN cards issued in the US have limited use in Europe. Evidently it will work for a "cash advance" where the card will charge 70% interest for the service (yes, more than 70% was the rate when I accidentally did a cash advance in Hungary. Don't even ask.). Larger institutions like hotels will take our chipped cards, swipe them and have us sign a slip. But many automated devices at toll roads, subways, gas stations,...be prepared to fail with a US chip and PIN only.

wayne iNWI

Chip and PIN cards issued in the US have limited use in Europe

This has been repeated over and over on this forum - no surprises here on any of this. I had both a chip-based and non-chip based card rejected in a hotel in Istanbul by someone who didn't know how to do a manual workaround (i.e. the machine spat out a cancelled/declined charge slip and he didn't know how to get around it). I was a bit disappointed and thrown off, but never surprised. I had to get cash and hoped the limit was adequate to foot the bill.

Are you paying exorbitant fees on each withdrawal? Education doesn't stop at grad school, not even Wharton or other Ivies...LOL

Using US credit cards in Europe has been and will continue to be a mass of confusion for everyone. Don't feel that you are alone in this.

You claim your card is a chip & PIN but it is most likely a chip & signature as almost no US bank issues chip & PIN cards. Some do provide PINs as a secondary validation if the processing machine doesn't accept signatures. But the default will always be for signature, even in PIN oriented Europe. And to confuse matters more, some banks only issue PINs that are for cash advances at an ATM. So some people might think they can enter their PIN in a ticket machine, but they can't.

And on their end, some European automated machines only work on networks for European based cards. So even if you did have a true chip & PIN card, it might not work (this can be a real issue at toll plazas).

And many merchants and attendants in Europe are just as confused about how our cards work as we are. They may not know how to swipe a magnetic strip card (since they are so rarely seen anymore in Europe), or get confused about whether a US card has to be swiped or dipped. And if they see it has a chip, they may not know they need to have their machine spit out a receipt to sign.

Cash withdrawal limits are pretty common in many parts of Europe and especially since some of the fiscal crisis. These may be well below what your own bank allows you to withdraw.

"some people might think they can enter their PIN in a ticket machine, but they can't."

Yes, they can. :-)

I was recently in Europe with my Bank of America Travel Visa with chip and signature and a Chase Visa chip card and another MasterCard chip card. The cash advance PINs worked perfectly in multiple train ticket machines in Italy as well as several manned terminals -- and I was NEVER charged as a cash advance for these purchases.

^^^ This is just more of that confusion I mentioned. Some machines are set to accept cards without a PIN (if a PIN is not the primary validation method) and some will accept the cash advance PIN (not triggering the cash advance fees) and some will accept entering any old number if the card does not have a PIN (but you have to enter some 4 digit number to process the transaction).

But other machines (say in other countries - Netherlands is an example) will not accept a PIN unless the PIN is the purchase transaction validation.

And in a few cases, machines might not accept any PIN if it is not on a specific European network.

True I have not been everywhere in Europe. I am just relating my experiences. I am sure that if I was to try enough terminals even in Italy where I had good luck some would fail me. And the confusion exists even here in the US. A major grocery chain has two stores within walking distance of my house. One is in full chip accepting mode even recognizing and properly accepting a true chip & PIN card (i.e. the terminal refused the swipe and demanded the chip to be inserted and then requesting the PIN instead of a signature). The other does not even recognize chip cards exist.

But when it comes to using a PIN in Europe many simply give up on the transaction instead of trying even a random number. It cannot hurt to get the PIN from your card issuer and try it when a terminal in Europe asks for the PIN. What's the worst that can happen? You would simply be denied. But the chances are good and getting better you will be approved. After all, the loss of a sale because the customer could not use their credit cards is not what merchants want.

One more comment about Multibanco's (ATM). It's true that the limit per withdrawal is €200. However, you can make two withdrawals - one right after the other - to give you €400 per day. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's a fact. Also, I had to adjust and accept the fact that Portugal is still much more of a cash society than the US.
There are a number debit cards - that have no international withdrawal fees.. I've been using a debit card from my credit union in the US with zero fees.. Citibank no longer charges international fees for purchases in Europe and I'm guessing there are more like Citibank. For your next trip😊

Hi,
When you say "no fees" I am curious. I have searched and searched for a 'no fee credit card'. The best I have found is that they hide it in the exchange rate. Let's say the official exchange rate is $1.00 for 1 euro. But if you look very carefully at your rate once you can see a transaction (on your computer, phone or hard coy at home) you likely paid $1.03 or $1.04 to get that Euro. Remember the rate is of the date you made the charge or a day later. And if your don't write that official rate down, looking at a rate several days or weeks later is not a proper comparison. Go to a good website for currency conversion, write down that rate.

Then there are the banks and credit unions who say, "We don't charge a fee." That can be true. But the issuers does. That local institution doesn't, but Mastercard or VISA does. It can be as low as 1%.

Those charging a fee often get me a very excellent exchange rate. So maybe a user is getting something for the fee, a good rate on the exchange.

If anyone finds a card with NO foreign fee for a transaction, let us hear about it. But do your checking first. You might have been a honest person who was told a semi-truth.

And , Yes, Lisbon is a cash location. I don't blame them. At these prices there is no room for credit card fees they would have to pay.

wayne iNWI, almost too complicated

OMG this is making me more confused instead of clearing things up! I'm leaving for Lisbon/Porto/Coimbra/Sintra in a week and now I'm terrified that my cards won't work. I am bringing a fair amount of cash, but I was going to bring a credit union Visa debit that has no chip, no fees from my credit union but a 1% fee from Visa for ATM's and purchases.

The only card I have that DOES have a chip is a Citi Simplicity Visa that I just confirmed has a 3% fee. (there is another Citi - Signature maybe? - that has no international fees but of course I don't have that one.) Hotels that needed a credit card for confirmation of my room reservations are going to be able to use that same card to ultimately pay for the room...right? Starting to freak out a little here!

wayner,

Capital One has both credit cards and debit cards that charge no international fees AND charge you the actual rate for the foreign currency in effect the day the transaction is settled to your account and the 1% network fee is not passed on to you. If Google shows 1.00 EUR = 1.00 USD, that is what you pay exactly to the penny. So, a good rate and no fees. I have been using these cards on my European trips for over 10 years now and have never had transaction declined or any other trouble. There are other cards out there that have been mentioned here on this site that do the same.

Hi,
ATMs...our cards chipped and non-chipped have worked to withdraw cash from the machines. So have a plenty of money in your account that you will be pulling money from. Or be able to transfer money t that account. We are having automatic deposits made during our trip so as to not have too much in the account should it be compromised.

But charging a meal (they much prefer cash and they say only Portuguese cards work in their machines, I was behind a charge transaction of a local and was next to charge and was told I couldn't after they looked at my card. Buying metro tickets with your card, buying gas at an automated gas station which many are after 7PM (19:00). These are where you will find hit and miss ability.

wayne iNLisbon lovely weather, and even more lovely people

I find all the comments about chip and pin debit and chip and pin credit cards to be totally at odds with what I experienced in Italy in May 2015.

Using my chip and pin DEBIT CARDS at ATM's was never a problem. I never take out more than 300 euros at a time so apparently did not hit a limit. But I NEVER use an ATM that is not connected to a physical bank. I would never use a free standing ATM, just too many ways for sometime go wrong, or have a machine that has been hacked, etc.
I used my chip and pin CREDIT CARDS, every day,sometimes multiple times a day to buy train tickets, never an issue. I used my credit cards for many other purchase, food, hotels, etc, again never a problem.
Have not been to Portugal for 3 years(getting ready to return in a few weeks) but I doubt that Portugal is very different in the way cards are processed.

Just a note: I was in Portugal in September 2002, less than a year after the conversion to the euro, and long before the current economic crisis. Even then, Portuguese ATM's had a €200 limit per withdrawal.

Hi you'all,

ATMs don't seem to be a problem other than a 200 euro per withdrawal limit in Portugal. You can do more than one withdrawal while standing at the ATM, but it will be two separate transactions. Good news some ATMs spit out tens. A useful size of currency. We had another that did nine 20s and 4 fives. I am finding that twenties cause some discomfort in businesses. A 24 euro purchase using two twenties chases them into the back room and checking wait staff to see if they have change.

Buy a train ticket with a credit card may not be a problem from a person at the train station, but from an automated machine (that has got to be redundant) is the problem. There is now swiping. Insert card and then you are asked for your PIN and then you are denied. I am interested if people are able to use the machines successfully.

Maybe a new line of questioning is needed.
wayne iNWI

To try and clear up a few more things:

ATM's still accept magnetic strip cards as well as any chip & PIN debit card. You should have no issues with whatever type of debit/ATM card you use. Occasionally a machine won't process your transaction, I've never understood why that happens to me. But it is rare and just move along to another machine. Withdrawal limits are set by the ATM's bank and can vary by country and location (heavily touristy places may have lower limits). Many ATM's will offer you DCC (always decline) but it is very rare to find one that charges a fee.

Automated ticket machines are a completely different story. Please don't think of Europe as one entity, their settings vary widely by country and merchants and processing networks. What works in Italy may not in Portugal and definitely won't in the Netherlands. What works at a train station may not work at a gas pump. What works at one toll booth in France may not at another in France. As an earlier poster noted, you can always try your chip card even if it doesn't have a transaction PIN. Just enter the cash advance PIN or random numbers. Some allow you to just push "enter" when prompted for the PIN. Sometimes this will work. But not always and you can never depend on it.

Almost every merchant can process a US chip & signature card in person. Touristy locations like hotels, museums and popular restaurants will know how they work. But off-the-beaten-path places where only locals venture may not be used to the process. A few places, like Dutch train stations, will not process a card without a PIN at all. But those are rare.

If you have only a magnetic strip credit card, they will still work in touristy places but less likely at other places. Most people should have at least one chip card by now. If not, try and get one from your bank if you will be traveling to Europe.

There are plenty of credit cards that offer no foreign transaction fees. Capital One is a popular one as it has no fees (always check the terms of you particular card). I've never heard of credit cards altering the exchange rate itself other than by a 1% which is well within the range of daily fluctuations. Some do add percentage fees to the purchase, but based on the interbank rate. Those will be marked on your statement.

We have had a pin/chip card for years and have been to Europe many times and never had a problem paying with it. Also we have used our debit card at cash machines in Italy, Germany, Hungary, Austria, Netherlands, France, England, Ireland and never had a problem. Make sure you call the card company before you go so they know when the charges appear that you are there. But I have never been to Portugal and we are going in late April/early May this year so it will be interesting ....

My new chipped credit card worked fine throughout Italy last summer, including for railroad station ticket machines. Once I got into eastern Germany, I had about a 50% failure rate at hotels and restaurants. I wasn't given any explanation, so I doubt that it was as simple as no-US-cards. I think there was probably a disconnect between my card and whatever verification network they were using. The problem card did work in the German train-ticket machines, however.

I was very glad I had taken a back-up credit card with me. It didn't have a chip, which in retrospect was probably fortunate.

Just returned from 8 days in Portugal (Lisbon, Porto, Coimbra, Sintra) and I wanted to report my credit card/ATM findings since I was one of the above posters that was worried!

I have a "no-chip" debit/ATM visa from my credit union that worked and was accepted at EVERY restaurant, hotel, and ATM that I tried it in all of those cities whether I used it as an ATM card or a Visa card. My card has a 4 digit pin number, and the ATM's seemed to have a 6-space entry code. I just entered my 4 digits and it worked fine. When they would bring the machine to the table at a restaurant and look at my card funny because there was no chip to put in the bottom of the machine, I just took the machine, and swiped my card on the right hand side (blue plastic area - they were all the same...). The slot is VERY thin, and a lot of places have probably not had to 'swipe' a card in a long time so merchants don't even realize that it is still an option. Then enter your pin and all is fine.

My particular card has only a 1% fee from Visa, so a ATM withdrawal of $200 euros showed up on my bank statement (exchange rate for that particular day) as $221.40 US dollars, plus $2.21 fee from Visa, plus a $1.50 fee from the European ATM I chose, and no ATM fee from my own bank. So $200 Eur = $225.11 Usd for me on Mar 2nd.

So...don't worry! Have fun - enjoy your trip! Portugal is the friendliest country I have ever visited! Great scenery, fantastic food, but it is the Portuguese people that make this country what it is. Wait until you see for yourselves. I can't wait to go back!

Hi,
I am glad so many people's cards are working outside of Portugal, and for those who have had theirs work in Portugal. When a person is present...to do what they can do...and you can sign a slip...yes they work in many many places. However, in automated machines...look out. At gas stations without attendants...beware. No gas for you! I am still here and locals tell me, don't try to buy a subway pass with a US chip/PIN card a the machines.

This is a pretty narrow issue of the US chip/PIN cards not working. Better to be aware that it might not work than think it won't work anywhere once you have been denied.

As always, all businesses, anywhere, prefer cash.

wayne iNLIsboa