Shorts when visiting?

Traditionally very few Europeans wear shorts outside of beaches. But that is rapidly changing. Churches, however, are another story. I would never wear shorts in a church, particularly in Europe.

Europeans have been wearing shorts beyond the beaches for decades. This idea that we're all in long trousers is something that continues to persist for some reason.

Wearing shorts in Polish churches is absolutely fine especially for teenagers. However, if they're wearing caps or any type of hat they should be removed before entering.

I've worn shorts in churches throughout Europe with no issues whatsoever. The only exception was in Istanbul where I wore long linen trousers.

Shorts in church is disrespectful wherever it is, whether or not they have bouncers there to enforce it or how often you get away with it. It may be a tourist attraction to you, but there are people there for whom it is a place deserving of your respect.

"How short are the shorts?" is the real question. Knee-length or just-above-the-knee shorts are fine to wear most places. If the shorts don't have a discernible inseam (meaning they are in the "short shorts" or "hotpants" category) or if they're cutoffs or obvious swim trunks, I'd agree with the comment that it's disrespectful in a church. Also, "What else are they wearing?"
When I was in Poland in 2018, it was very hot, and we all wore shorts a lot of the time. My son only had long, loose mesh shorts in black, grey and navy, no stripes, logos, etc. Also, he only had one t-shirt that wasn't solid or striped. I packed his bag so that I never had to worry about him looking inappropriate. He was 12. Now he's 19 and I trust him to know what to wear to show respect in a church. Sometimes that trust is misplaced, and he gets the choice of changing clothes or waiting outside.
Bottom line: let the teenagers wear what they are comfortable in.

Stan,

The whole reason I asked is because what is considered respectful varies from culture to culture. I thought that was obvious from the question.

Thanks to the others for their thoughtful replies.

Steve, any answer that begins with "in Europe" is more than likely to be wrong. I dont have an answer for Poland, nor am I confident that well intended strangers on a forum share my values so I wouldn't wear shorts. Or maybe bring a pair but spend a few days looking around then decide for yourself.

steve1234, I respectfully disagree. I think it's more of a religious expectation. I dont think, for example, people would expect to visit a mosque with their shoes on, or a synagogue without a yarmulke. Yes people get away with how they're dressed all the time, even here in the US. But it's not right. Always good to err on the side of being overdressed. Yes, it is just my opinion.

And yes I have been in churches in Poland and seen people asked to cover up or leave. YMMV.

I say shorts are a "no" in a Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish or Muslim house of worship in Europe. I've seen plenty of pictorial signs posted, showing what not to wear. They always depict shorts. (Leggings are also often shown.) As far west as Barcelona, I (female) was reminded to remove my sunhat before entering the Cathedral, and I saw others being stopped because of uncovered shoulders or knees.

Yes, I've been to Poland, for about 5 weeks in 2018. It is a very, very Catholic country; I wouldn't expect churches there to welcome shorts, sleeveless tops or bare midriffs. I can't say for sure how many churches police those preferences, because I don't ever dress that way in Europe--there's too much potential to come across an interesting-looking church around the corner.

In Orthodox churches I believe women are supposed to cover their hair. I don't recall about Poland (I may not have entered an Orthodox church there), but in Ukraine just to the south, there are often loaner scarves available, making the expectation clear. Of course, a head covering is easy to carry around with you.

I've noticed in some eastern countries, including but not limited to Turkey, it's rare to see a local woman wearing even long slacks in a house of worship; they're mostly in below-the-knee skirts.

Steve, I don't have Poland-specific advice. My experience in Italy is no shorts as noted by acraven above. If St. Mary's in Krakow, for example, is on your itinerary, scroll to the bottom of this page for a link to rules and regulations. It mentions respectful attire but doesn't go into specifics.
https://mariacki.com/en/tours-of-the-basilica/

I'm sure I've worn shorts on retreats and at "Mass on the grass" on college campuses, and I'm sure the Good Lord thought that was fine, but the style at that time was longer shorts, and I wasn't in a basilica or a parish church. That's just a comment that I don't think shorts in and of themselves are disrespectful, but I agree with the dress respectfully (or neatly) thing.

Have a good time on your tour!

BTW, I'm surprised acraven, as a woman, was asked to remove a hat in a church. A man should remove his, but it's interesting that a woman would be asked to. Maybe they thought it easier to tell everyone to remove their hats, or it was a security consideration? That's a question.

I can't explain the hat situation in Barcelona; it surprised me because wearing hats to church was a big deal for women when I was a child 60-70 years ago. I normally remove my hat automatically when I go indoors, because I'm a summer traveler and I like to let my head cool off, so I don't normally have an opportunity to observe the reaction to entering a church with a hat on. I have seen pictures of hats on some of the "no-no placards" posted outside churches in Europe, but I don't remember how specific those were as to style of hat or gender of wearer.

Since you asked for advice, mine would be to say that this is a perfect opportunity to teach your teens about being thoughtful, respectful tourists. (Because you asked for advice, I am assuming that this is what you want to do, and I applaud that.)

Could they get away with wearing shorts? Possibly. I haven't yet visited Poland, so I won't presume to speak about that, but I HAVE seen signs on churches in a lot of other European countries where people are advised not to enter with bare knees, shoulders, or midriffs. Given that, even if it's possible that teens could get away with shorts, I'd be encouraging my kids to be thoughtful and respectful, and to find a way to cover their knees (and shoulders and midriffs) when entering churches. A long scarf could be temporarily tied around the waist, like a sort of sarong, for instance. (Not sure if a boy would want to do this, but it could be an option for girls.) Or, perhaps those pants where the legs zip off could be an option, if they aren't too horribly uncool. ;)

At any rate, kudos to you for asking, and my advice would be to discuss with your teens options to cover up in churches.

Let them bring their shorts. There are days on the RS Poland tour with no stops in any churches at all. Ask your guide about appropriate attire for the days you do visit churches. When we were in Gdansk there was a heavy metal festival going on in town with lots of people wandering around in some very interesting clothing :-) I noticed some likely attendees of the festival in the church there that has the amber altar that we went to on our own. They were very respectful and nobody batted an eye. I get the idea of being respectful going to churches and following what the culture expects, so if there are rules then follow them. Otherwise, if there aren’t specific rules, then have the kids dress fairly modestly and enter with genuine intentions and don’t worry about what others might think.

We were in Krakow for a RS Tour a couple years ago (best of Central Europe). Shorts (of a respectable length) didn’t seem to be an issue in the two cathedrals/churches we visited in Krakow. People in our group (and other visitors) were wearing shorts and it didn’t seem to be an issue. The RS guide didn’t give any advice one way or the other. During hot weather, I usually opt for capris in this situation, so I don’t miss out on anything amazing due to a clothing choice! But teens may feel differently, of course.

I am reading some of the same that I have read in posts on some similar subjects. The tourist looks around, sees 100 other tourists doing what he wants to do and realizes that it’s okay. All the other tourist kids on the street are drunk and singing at 3am, so it must be culturally acceptable if I get drunk wander the streets and sing all night. At the next level comes, I didn’t get thrown out or arrested, so it’s okay.

I ran into a Hungarian gentleman last year, we talked a little about it and he refereed to this as cultural vandalism. I thought it was pretty good description. Vandalism isn’t a huge crime rarely do people go to jail, often it’s not practical to pursue violators but when there is enough of it, it erodes a culture.

The standard of correctness isn’t established by what all the other tourist groups are doing, and it’s not established by the line at which you are thrown out or arrested. As a guest in someone elses country, the standard is that which has the highest likelihood of not offending the greatest number of the citizens of the host country.

What is the correct thing to do is usually very easy to know, its accepting that people have issues with.

I am not comfortable wearing shorts when visiting a church, either in the U.S. or abroad due to my personal beliefs. However, while entering places of worship abroad, I have observed gender being a factor in their entrance policies. On numerous occasions, I have seen females be refused entrance when their shorts or skirts hit above the knee. Conversely, males wearing shorts above the knee have been allowed to enter. Both females and males have been required to have their shoulders covered.

We were in Poland in August a few years ago. It was blistering hot. Everyone - tourists and Poles - were wearing tank tops, shorts, skimpy sundresses. I didn’t see anyone having issues entering churches.

The Pope knows: https://tripanthropologist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/dress-code-at-the-vatican.jpg.webp

But Poland isn’t Italy. The best option is to dress modestly and ask the tour guide what the local customs are and follow that guidance. It was definitely a moving experience to see heavy metal fans entering a church with reverence and doing the sign of the cross. Dressed a bit unconventionally, but I don’t think they endangered the end of the Polish culture as we know it. Jesus welcomed beggars and lepers and people in rags.

I'm sure that God, if it exists, really wouldn't be concerned about the sight of someone's knees, shoulders or whatever.

Anyway, the OP asked about Poland specifically and they received several responses from people who have been to Poland and observed people entering churches whilst wearing shorts with no issues, myself included. Expectations may differ in other countries but we're explicitly referring to Poland. We may all have our own view on what may be respectful or disrespectful when it comes to church attire but that doesn't answer the OP's question.

The original question was whether allowing the teenagers to wear shorts "would be appropriate given that we intend to visit some churches." The question, as posted, was not explicitly whether the teenagers would always, never, or sometimes be turned away from churches if wearing shorts.

I guess there were several different interpretations of the question.

But Poland isn’t Italy.

But the Vatican isn't Italy either. Its the headquarters for 75% of the churches in Poland. When in doubt, do what the boss does.

I'm sure that God, if it exists, really ....

Take that up with the Holy See and the Pope. The church operates under their license.

I wouldn't wear shorts in a church. Can't they wear something else for one day?

A few years back, my wife and I took the RS tour which included a stop in Krakow and we went in the churches wearing shorts-- as did the RS tour guide and many of the other tour mates. It seemed to be the practice. It was early July and quite warm.

When my wife and I walked the Camino in Spain, pilgrims routinely entered churches in shorts. It was the practice. Later on a different trip to Spain. my wife and I entered a church (nowhere near the trail) and she had bare shoulders. A woman at the door gave her a shawl/scarf to cover up. The practice there was different.

When I was in Saudi, a member of our group walked down the street in Riyadh in shorts. he was met first by stares and the later by shouts to cover up. It was their practice to cover up.

JC comments resonate with. me.

Happy travels.

I agree David. Follow the customs of the locals and the direction from the tour guide, who is almost 100% likely to be from Poland unless they have hired new guides for that tour this year. Being respectful of local culture is what is best. Mr E’s comment about a sign outside the Vatican dictating what is expected all over Europe makes no sense. Mr E often states he doesn’t like when people ask a question saying “in Europe” because there is such a wide variation across countries and cultures. If a sign outside the Vatican dictates what happens in every church in Poland, it would also mean what is on that sign is expected all over the entire world in all Catholic churches according to his argument. However, there is a wide variety of cultural variation within the Catholic Church regarding appropriate attire, even for nuns who have devoted their lives to the church. Some nuns wear full habits and are covered head to toe, while others can now wear street clothes and you wouldn’t even be able to identify them as a sister. It depends on their order, where the live, and on their local culture and customs.

As a lapsed Unitarian, I may not be the perfect person to share this quote but here goes anyway:

forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;

I really don’t know the answer to the question, but I know it can’t be found in what he and all the other tourists in his group did. That’s rationalizing bad behavior. If you want to go down that road, then show up for service on Sunday and make note of the norm of the local population and copy it. Then norm, not the 10% exception to the norm. Locals get to buck their own system, guests do not. Someone above asked what G-d would think, again, doesn’t matter what G-d thinks, it matters what the Polish Congregation believes that G-d thinks on the subject. Again, anything else is just rationalizing bad behavior.

I don’t have a concrete answer. Never offered one, only suggested to error on the side of respect for the greatest number that might be affected. If half of the Polish congregation wouldn’t care, as a guest I still don’t think it correct to offend the other half. Is it too much to make the tiniest little sacrifice to cover the bases to show respect for a community that has invited you in as a guest?

I have visited Poland six times in the last ten years and visit many churches. Polish people, like many Europeans, have changed how they dress. I recall being in Rome in 2012, and it seemed EVERY Italian woman was in all black, very stylish with a pop of color. I had on a peacock feather print and felt SOOOO out of place. That's not the way it is now.

I am a Polish American and will give you this advice: if you are going to mass, do try to dress modestly. The women should wear a dress or skirt in the hot weather. Teen boys could wear knee-length pants. If you are just visiting churches for a tour, whether for ten minutes or thirty, shorts (but not showing your behind) are fine. As in most cases in life, most everyone else doesn't care what you are wearing. They really only care about themselves.

The Poles are lovely people, but don't smile at strangers, so don't expect that. Most Europeans don't do that either. Help your kids focus on the fact that they are going to LOVE Poland.

BTW, in my experience, the no shorts or shoulders exposed in churches is more of an Italian issue. I saw a teen girl being given paper pants to wear in a church in Florence.