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King Harald of Norway

EDIT TO ADD

Because of the passing of King Harald, I watched The Commoner which had been on my watch list for months. I had never gotten around to watching it but I did not mention his passing and it confused some persons who expected my post to be about King Harald and his passing. So this is an edited version of what I originally wrote.

Tonight I watched The Commoner on Amazon Prime.

It is the story of then Crown Prince Harald trying to marry the woman he loved who would one day become his wife and Queen of Norway.

It took nine years for him to get permission from his father to marry the only woman he would love in his lifetime. all because she was a commoner.

But it was not just the father: the people of Norway were just plain ugly about the heir to the throne marrying a commoner. I was somewhat shocked at how the young couple were treated by the public. I thought of Norway always being so ahead of the world.

At times, I found myself exhausted at what this couple went through but the story was very interesting and well done. It had a fairytale ending in that they were eventually allowed to marry and The Queen survives him today..

Posted by
590 posts

I was somewhat shocked at how the young couple were treated by the public. I thought of Norway always being so ahead of the world.

I suppose this statement can be explained by a lack of understanding of the system of kingdoms.

In the past, kings and queens were always required to marry someone of (high) nobility. This was not a matter of romantic love, but a strict obligation for political, strategic, and biological reasons.

By marrying a princess from another country, a king sealed a peace treaty or military alliance. Marrying a commoner could lead to international tensions or even war.
Marriages also contributed to the expansion of the kingdom through inheritance.

Within the European feudal system, there was a strong belief in dynastic legitimacy. Kings were considered to rule by the grace of God (droit divin). Marrying someone of lower social standing was viewed as a desecration of bloodlines or a decline in status (mesalliance). It was believed to weaken the royal status of the heirs to the throne.

If a king or prince did marry a commoner, any children they had would not be entitled to the throne, titles, or the king’s possessions. An example of this is King Leopold III in my own country, who married a commoner, Lilian Baels, in 1941. This was very poorly received by the Belgian people. Lilian did not become queen nor princess.

In extreme cases, the monarch had to abdicate the throne. The best-known example of this is King Edward VIII of the United Kingdom, who abdicated in 1936 in order to marry Wallis Simpson, an American citizen who had been divorced twice.

But times are changing...
If I'm not mistaken, it was Prince Rainier III, Prince of Monaco, who was the first to marry a commoner (movie star Grace Kelly) without any further implications in 1956.

Other examples would follow.

Crown Prince Pavlos of Greece and Marie-Chantal Miller (daughter of founder DFS) in 1993.

The current King of Norway, Haakon VIII, himself faced significant criticism from the public over his engagement to Mette-Marit Høiby in 2000.

Crown Prince Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands with female banker Máxima Zorreguieta in 2000 (now the king and queen).

King Felipe VI of Spain and Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano, a TV presenter, in 2003

Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden in 2009 with Daniel Westling, a gym owner.
...

This new "approach" among European royal families is bringing monarchs closer to their people and preventing genetic problems caused by centuries of inbreeding (P.S.: rules regarding inbreeding led to the downfall of the Spanish Habsburgs, for example).

Posted by
1132 posts

We'll have to watch that. Last night we rewatched The Wave, based in Geiranger, on Prime.

I really enjoyed and recommend the miniseries Atlantic Crossing.

Posted by
1731 posts

How can there be a crown prince of Greece when Greece is a republic?

Posted by
590 posts

How can there be a crown prince of Greece when Greece is a republic?

That's a sensitive question. But officially, you're right.
Article 4, paragraph 7 of the Constitution of Greece (1975) says: "Titles of nobility or distinction are neither conferred upon nor recognized in Greek citizens."
https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Greece_2008?lang=en

So perhaps 'former crown prince of Greece' would be better.

Posted by
620 posts

I find it baffling that with a quarter of the 21st Century behind us, people still want to preserve monarchies, ceremonial or otherwise. However, it's a decision each of these nations chooses to make collectively and independently. As a traveler and visitor, I do acknowledge that the church and aristocracy funded most of what we value as art.

Posted by
1101 posts

I could have been King Harald of Norway too if I hadn't married a commoner. And if I had been of royal descent. And if I had been Norwegian. And I had been named Harald.

But I check a lot of the other boxes!

Happy travels

Posted by
4125 posts

mammie

I watched Atlantic Crossing. Very good. Informative. And such a connection to The Commoner.

I am going to look up the Wave.

Posted by
4125 posts

Windyram

Thank you for so much interesting information.

I am learning and so much to learn

I am fascinated by Royalty, all Royalty. It is not easy, is it?

Posted by
4125 posts

Thank you David

and

alomaker

yes we love the art that was given to us by the churches and by Royalty

Posted by
1731 posts

I wouldn’t say it’s a decision we get to make. I’ve certainly never been given a vote on it!

Posted by
4125 posts

mnanie

If I am remembering correctly, I believe that King Harald was one of the children who went to stay with the Roosevelts in New York State and his father, King Olav, was the king who was exiled to England during WWII.

So as I said in an earlier post, it is all connected to the Atlantic Crossing.

I have read that The Atlantic Crossing while based on fact is not completely factual.

Posted by
1021 posts

The Greek example is irrelevant. As noted, Greece is a republic that has abolished its monarchy. So who a member of the former Greek royal family marries is of no importance. It’s like the old Austrian Hapsburgs and French Bourbons. Sure, the family is still there but no one cares. But it’s true that in those countries that still have a monarchy it can matter.
And I agree that Atlantic Crossing, while dramatized, is very good. It’s too bad that Princess Martha died young before she could be Queen. King Harald was born the same year as my mother, 1937, and she’s still alive although increasingly frail.

Posted by
4125 posts

Slate

How did Princess Martha die and how old was she?

It is only in the last several years that I have become acquainted with European Royalty and with Europe itself. I am learning by traveling. I want to know about the places that I am going to visit or I want to know more when I come home from a visit so I search and I watch movies and documentaries.

Many. if not most European marriages were arranged based on politics I have come to realize.

the art that we love so much was often stolen or created by the oppression of the people. But I still love it and still go to see it.

The History of Europe is fascinating but so is the history of the world. It is all so interesting and maybe more so when it is not all that nice such as the Tower of London.

Posted by
1021 posts

Hi bostonphil, unfortunately Princess Martha of Norway died at 53 in 1954, either of cancer or liver disease (sources vary), several years before her husband became King.

Posted by
4125 posts

Slate

That is unfortunate.

My memory is that the people of Norway really loved her.

I am planning to cruise Iceland and Norway September 2027.

Posted by
590 posts

Yes, the people of Norway loved Märtha.

Märtha (Sofia Lovisa Dagmar Thyra) was born a princess of Sweden and grew up with her sisters, Princess Margaretha and Princess Astrid, and her younger brother, Prince Carl. She was the most self-assured of the group and eyecatcher at many balls.

During the 1928 Olympic Games, she became engaged to her cousin (!), Prince Olav. [Märtha's mother (Ingeborg of Sweden) was a sister of Olav's father (King Haakon VII of Norway)].
Their marriage in 1929 marked an improvement in relations between Norway and Sweden. Twenty-five years earlier, the union between Norway and Sweden had been dissolved, and Märtha’s grandfather, Oscar II of Sweden, had been deposed from the Norwegian throne.

At that time, Märtha distinguished herself from other female members of royal families by delivering countless speeches; within the limits of her position, she was quite emancipated.

When World War II broke out in 1940, it was Märtha who called on Norwegian women to participate in the mobilization to defend Norway.
From the U.S., the Crown Princess was very active in her efforts on behalf of occupied Norway.

Upon her return to Norway, she received a hero’s welcome and was called “the mother of the nation,” thanks to all her efforts. The impact she had on the Norwegian people was comparable to that of Princess Diana on the British people in the 1980s and 1990s.

What about her sisters and brother?

Princess Margaretha (Margaretha Sofia Lovisa Ingeborg) married Prince Axel of Denmark in 1918. After the death of her sister Märtha in 1954 she regularly assisted her brother-in-law, King Olaf V of Norway. She died in 1977.

Princess Astrid (Astrid Sofia Lovisa Thyra) became engaged to Crown Prince Leopold, son of King Albert I of Belgium.
The couple married in Sweden on November 4, 1926; six days later, on November 10, a second wedding ceremony took place in Belgium.
There was concern within the royal family because of her Lutheran faith. A few years after her marriage, she converted to Roman Catholicism.
Upon the death of Albert I in 1934, her husband became King Leopold III and she herself became Queen of Belgium.
In 1935, at the age of 29, our Queen was killed in a car accident in Küssnacht am Rigi, Switzerland, where the couple had been on an incognito outing under the name Renard before returning home.
Her unborn fourth child also died with her, while her other children had traveled home by train the night before.
Küssnacht donated the land where the accident occurred to Leopold, on which he had a chapel built in her memory.
Leopold III will remarry in 1941 to a commoner, Lilian Baels, as I already mentioned in my earlier reply.
Astrid gave the dynasty the future kings of Belgium, Baudouin and Albert II, and Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte of Luxembourg.

Prince Carl (Carl Gustaf Oscar Fredrik Christian), for some time, was considered a potential suitor for the Dutch Crown Princess (future queen) Juliana. In 1934, an arranged meeting between the two took place at the British court. According to the Dutch envoy in London, however, Juliana displayed so little tact and sense of etiquette during the meeting that Prince Charles withdrew from the match after just the first meeting.
In 1937, he renounced his claim to the Swedish throne to marry the divorced Swedish Countess Elsa von Rosen. He was no longer Prince of Sweden but simply Carl Bernadotte.
In 1938, his brother-in-law, King Leopold III, admitted him into the Belgian nobility with the personal title of prince and the title of count/countess for his descendants. His marriage ended in divorce in 1951.
His second marriage in 1954 to Ann Margareta Larsson also ended in divorce in 1961.
In 1978, he married for the third time, this time to Kristine Rivelsrud.
He died in 2003.

Posted by
25 posts

This is such a weird thread. Judging by the title, I thought it would be about if or how tourists could be affected by the death of King Harald. After all, this is a travel forum. But no - it deals with TV series, previously deceased royal family members, etc. And not a word of sympathy for the Norwegian people who have lost a beloved king.
I'm not a royalist, but King Harald was a great symbol - he was caring and inclusive. He made a speech 10 years ago in which he said that Norwegians are straight, gay, from a number of different countries, have different religious beliefs (or none) and family situations. This speech was of great importance to the Lgbtq+ community, immigrants, Muslims, Jews and other minorities. He united the people of Norway in a polarized world.

Posted by
88 posts

Blackbird; that was exactly the same thought I had. Clicked on this thread expecting something completely different and the King’s recent passing never came up. We are planning a trip to Norway next summer and certainly pass along our sympathy for the passing of King Harald.

Posted by
13171 posts

I found out a few months ago that I am actually descended from King Haakon VII of Norway through my mother (and his mother's side), which surprised me because I didn't realize I had any Norwegian ancestry.

I was very sorry to hear about the passing of King Harald, though.

dougandjulie, you will love Norway. I spent a little under two weeks there this summer with my daughter (I also went to Iceland and Stockholm), and it was one of the most beautiful countries I've ever been to. I loved every minute of it.

Posted by
4125 posts

I did watch The Commoner because of the passing of King Harald. It has been on my watch list many months but I preferred to watch other things.

However due to the passing of King Harald, I chose to watch The Commoner yesterday.

I was wanting to make forum aware of this series and how good and informative it was.

It never occurred to me to mention the passing of the King or to offer my condolences to the people of Norway.

For me, it was all about the series and I apologize if I offended some on The Forum.

But I am glad that other members of forum have mentioned his passing and what a great king he was. Truthfully, I knew very little about him and I still do not know enough. I will have to do further research

For those who might not know, there is a connection between the PBS series "Crossing The Atlantic" and "The Commoner"

Feel free to comment on King Harald of Norway and his passing on this thread or if you begin a new thread, I will be glad to comment on your thread

I am sorry that my thread might have disappointed anyone on this Forum.

Posted by
4125 posts

Blackbird

I am glad that you offered information about King Harald. I know almost nothing about him but from what I saw on this series. I did watch the series because of his passing.

I have never been to Norway but am going on a cruise in 2027 which will include Norway. And before my cruise, I will begin to research the history of Norway. I have done some already but for now, I am researching London because I am going to London in October.

I am sorry that I offended you and others on This Forum.

Perhaps you could start a thread about King Harald and let us know about him and what a great King he was. I want to learn more about the history of Norway.

My sympathies to the people of Norway on the passing of King Harald.

Posted by
590 posts

bostonphil7,

the history of Norway in a nutshell ..

The Viking Age began in the year 793 with an attack on Lindisfarne Abbey in England, which was the first documented Viking raid.

They sailed across the Baltic Sea and up Russian rivers as far as the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea, reaching Byzantium and the Caliphate of Baghdad.

The Vikings founded many cities and colonies, including Dublin in Ireland and the Normandy region in France. Dublin remained an important settlement for more than three centuries. Between 879 and 920, the Vikings colonized Iceland, which paved the way for the colonization of Greenland. Remains of a Viking settlement at L’Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland date back to around the year 1000. It was the Viking explorer Leiv Eiriksson who set foot on the coast of North America here—500 years before Christopher Columbus.

The Viking Age reached its peak in 1066, when the Norwegian king Harald Hardrada was defeated at the Battle of Stamford Bridge in England.

The year 1130 marked a turning point in Norwegian history, with the transition from a period of peace to a period of conflict and civil war that lasted until 1227.

Greenland and Iceland became dependent territories in 1262, while Norway lost control of the Isle of Man and the Hebrides in 1266 under the Treaty of Perth, which brought the Scottish-Norwegian War to an end.

In 1350, the Black Death raged fiercely, reducing the population by half or even to a third. As a result, the king and the nobility were forced to derive income from land holdings, regardless of national borders. In this way, they contributed to the emergence of political unions in the Scandinavian countries.
From 1319 to 1343, Norway and Sweden shared a common monarchy.
Following a marriage to the daughter of the Danish king and his subsequent death, the three Scandinavian countries were united in 1397 in the Kalmar Union.
This union would last until Sweden seceded from it in 1536 and Norway ceased to exist as an independent kingdom. Danish nobles then took over the governance of the country. Norway and its possessions rapidly declined to the status of a province during the reign of the Kingdom of Denmark and Norway.
This Danish period lasted until 1814.

After all, there was also the matter of France under Napoleon. During the Napoleonic Wars (1804–1815), Denmark supported France, while Sweden had joined the French opponents—namely Russia, Great Britain, Austria, Prussia, Spain, and Portugal.
As early as 1809, Sweden had lost Finland to Russia.
During the Treaty of Kiel on January 14, 1814, Russia and Great Britain promised that Sweden would receive Norway as compensation.

The Norwegian people viewed the union with Sweden as a step toward independence. Nationalism in Norway had by then become widespread, and the people did not want to become part of Sweden. On May 17, 1814, Norway broke away from Sweden by adopting its own constitution and electing Christian of Denmark as King of Norway. In July of that same year, Swedish troops invaded Norway (the Swedish-Norwegian War). On August 14, both parties agreed to a peace treaty with the Convention of Moss. Norway was now officially in a union with Sweden, with a Swedish king, but the country did have its own parliament and constitution.

However, during the nineteenth century, Norwegian nationalism grew, and a desire emerged to gain more control over the country’s own foreign policy and diplomacy.

Norway wanted to open its own consulates to better represent its trade interests worldwide. The Swedish king, Oscar II, refused to agree to this. When the Norwegian government subsequently resigned and the king was unable to form a new government, parliament concluded that he could no longer fulfill his constitutional duties. On June 7, 1905, Parliament therefore declared that the union had effectively come to an end.

... to be continued

Posted by
590 posts

…continued

Remarkably, this struggle for independence unfolded peacefully. Although military preparations were made on both sides, Norway and Sweden ultimately opted for negotiations. In August 1905, an overwhelming majority of the Norwegian population voted in a referendum in favor of dissolving the union. Later that year, Sweden officially recognized Norwegian independence.

Norway then had to decide what form of government it wanted. In a second referendum, the people voted to retain the monarchy. Prince Haakon VII of Denmark was invited to become King of Norway and ascended the throne in November 1905.

The events of 1905 are still regarded as one of the most significant moments in modern Norwegian history. They serve as a remarkable example of how a long-standing political conflict was resolved not through war, but through democratic decision-making, referendums, and diplomacy. For Norway, June 7, 1905, marked the beginning of a new chapter as a fully independent nation.

Posted by
25 posts

bostonphil7 - thank you for your apology and condolences. I'm not offended - I just think it's strange considering the title of your thread that neither you nor the many posters afterwards didn't mention the passing of King Harald.
I won't start a thread about King Harald, as this is a travel forum. For those who are interested, there's information on him in English on the internet, e.g. the Prime Minister's speech upon his death: https://www.regjeringen.no/en/whats-new/his-majesty-king-harald-v-has-died-the-prime-ministers-speech/id3171481/

Posted by
1132 posts

I found out a few months ago that I am actually descended from King Haakon VII of Norway through my mother (and his mother's side), which surprised me because I didn't realize I had any Norwegian ancestry.

Mardee, are you Danish? He was born in Copenhagen and was Prince Carl of Denmark before he became the king of Norway.

I knew King Harald had passed and that is why I was so interested in this post. My grandfather was from Sand and my grandmother from Alesund. She survived the fire of 1904. My husband's great-great uncles, Torjus and Mikkel Hemmestveit, had a key role bringing in bringing skiing to the US from the Telemark. He has other relatives who still live on the family farm near Lom. We love that many of our ancestors came from Norway.

I honestly didn't know I had to publicly express my sympathy on this forum to be respectful, and I am sorry if I offended anyone by my initial response to this post.

We started to watch The Commoner last night and will finish it this evening.

Posted by
4125 posts

Blackbird and Windyram

I can not believe what happened. I wrote a very long answer to both of you and somehow I lost it.

I do want to see if I can find it before I have to rewrite

Posted by
4125 posts

Blackbird and Windyram

Unfortunatelyy I can not find the very long response that I wrote to both opf you.

Blackbird

I think that you should write about King Harald for this forum because learning about Monarchs is learning about a country

When I go to a foreign country, I want to know about the past. I want to know about the rulers. I want to know about the present. The past leads to the present.

Every single country is so interesting.

If I have my information correct, King Harald came to the United States as a boy to escape the Nazis. His father, the king, was exiled in London.

In The Commoner, he is all grown up fighting to marry the woman he loves and now I read of his passing. I read that he was a great king and loved by the Norwegian people. He had. a full and good life.

Travel is education. Before I go anywhere I want to know about the history and the culture.

I know a lot about the Vikings because I have traveled to London, France, Spain, Italy and some other places.

I had been doing some research on Iceland and Norway but had to stop because I have to get ready for my trip to London in about 7 weeks and I have to have my cataracts out before I go.

London might take priority now but soon after returning, I am going to be researching my cruise from Iceland to Norway and to Amsterdam and to Belgium.

I hope you will both be available to guide me when I have a lot of questions on this Forum.

Shore excursions might be short but they do pique my interest. I learn some before going and some when I come home.

Thank you both for your time and input.

Posted by
13171 posts

mnannie, no, according to the chart on Family Search, I am descended from him through his mother, Lovisa Josefina Eugenia Bernadotte, who was from Sweden. We are 13th cousins (and interestingly, none removed). 😊

FWIW, I don't think anyone has to publicly express sympathy. I got the impression that Blackbird was saying it was confusing just because of the timing of it.

By the way, I saw The Wake about five or six years ago, and I had no idea that it was filmed in Geiranger. I'll have to watch it again and look at that. It was a good movie and I enjoyed it.

Posted by
25 posts

bostonphil7: I'll be happy to try to help you concerning your cruise to Norway.

Posted by
4125 posts

Blackbird

Thank you.

I have just watched several youtube videos about the passing of King Harald and the coronation of his son.

People were interviewed and they talked about what a wonderful King he was and how much they loved him.

You have awakened me. I have learned from your response to my post. Thank you.

Posted by
4125 posts

Windyram

thank you for all the information that ypu sent me about Norway. I had written a thank you on the response that got lost.

It is all so interesting and it is also so interesting how we are really all connected.

Posted by
590 posts

You're welcome.
I’m happy to help people who travel for the sake of history, though that doesn’t mean I’m averse to those who seek pleasure in their travels.
Sharing knowledge, after all, is a pleasure in itself.

Now let's just hope this statement isn't misinterpreted... as a non-native English speaker, that's always a risk ;-)

Posted by
4125 posts

Blackbird and Windyram and Mardee and others

I have edited the introduction to this thread

Posted by
12446 posts

and the coronation of his son

In Norway the monarch is consecrated, which is very distinct from a coronation.

Posted by
590 posts

Norway constitutionally abolished the coronation in 1908.
King Harald’s father, Olav V, introduced a new blessing ceremony (Velsignelse) in 1958, a tradition that Harald and Queen Sonja continued in 1991. A similar ceremony is expected to be held for Haakon. It's a church service in which God’s blessing is sought for the new reign. This may later be held at Nidaros cathedral in Trondheim, where Norwegian monarchs were crowned between 1814 and 1906.

The blessing is traditionally followed by a tour of Norway.

Haakon VIII will swear an oath of allegiance to the constitution next Tuesday, September 1. The oath is mandatory for a new monarch and will be taken in parliament, located near the Royal Palace in Oslo. Haakon will swear the oath at 1 p.m. local time (1100 GMT).

Among European monarchies, the United Kingdom is currently the only country that still holds a full, traditional coronation.

In Denmark, this moment is very low-key: the prime minister proclaims the new monarch three times from the balcony of Christiansborg Palace.

Posted by
1120 posts

Windyram, thank you so much for the multi post explanation of the history of Norway 🇳🇴. Wow, it was so interesting to read it in one flow of information. It’s always so interesting to hear about countries inviting in someone in the royal family in another country to become a ruler/figurehead in their country.

I’ve never been that interested in visiting Scandinavia until the last year after reading some very good trip reports about the region. Mardee’s last trip really enticed me.

Posted by
590 posts

Your welcome, Lyndash

... But actually, my description ended in 1905, so you’ll have to look up the rest yourself.

The period of World War I is still missing—a time when Norway maintained a neutral stance but faced intense pressure from Prussia, which had major consequences (such as the loss of nearly 900 ships).

Then there was Nazi Germany’s invasion in 1940, the postwar period with trials of collaborators, the stance toward a disintegrating Soviet Union, the terrorist attacks of 2011, the pandemic of 2020, political divisions over the oil and gas industry in light of global warming, and the negotiations with the EU regarding fisheries and agriculture, ...

So much more to discover!

Posted by
12446 posts

The funeral is at Oslo Cathedral/Domkirke at 1 pm on 9 September, followed by interment in a new sarcophagus in the Royal Mausoleum at Akershus Castle.

The Cathedral is now closed to visitors until after the funeral, unless signing the Book of Condolence. Intending visitors are invited to visit the Pauluskirke (St Paul's Church) instead.

There will then be a 1 month period of national mourning, ending on 9 October.

Norway is increasing border security between 4 and 14 September, in an unspecified and probably random way at all land, sea and air entry points, but with a focus on Oslo Airport.

Posted by
4125 posts

isn31c

Thank you for the information

Why is Norway increasing all border security for the period 4 and 14 September?

I am not aware of Norway having any enemies.

Posted by
25 posts

In order to provide maximum security to the highly protected international guests at the funeral of King Harald on September 9th.

Posted by
543 posts

The funeral will be attended by a who’s who of international royalty, as listed by the font of all knowledge( with pictures) Tatler magazine.

https://www.tatler.com/gallery/revealed-every-royal-set-to-attend-the-funeral-of-king-harald-v-of-norway

It will be a massive security operation for the Norwegian police.

Add to that the fact that it shares a border with Russia, who are being a bit ‘attention seeking’ at the moment and the Norwegian security service and policing will be on edge!

Posted by
4125 posts

Blackbird and Emma

Thank you.

And Emma, thank you for introducing me to Tatler Magazine.

In The United States, we do not get that much information about Norway. You can search it but it is not easily offered such as on the CNN or ABC websites. I do not have cable or satellite TV, just an antenna, so I am limited.

I did see something this morning about Norway and a Russian ship in the Arctic. I do not remember if Norway protested or if it actually seized the Russian ship.

I do not know much about Norway but I have been actively learning. I have now been seeking out information but will do more so after my trip to London in October.

I have watched some docs and movies on Prime and other places such as PBS.. I have watched many youtube videos. I have done research and I am on forum.

Youtube videos are much more than just Content Creators and their travel videos. . I have watched videos on the History of Norway and videos about the Vikings, and about King Harald.

But I have a few docs and movies about Norway that I have already watched but want to go back and watch again.

Posted by
6822 posts

I arrived in Norway the day after King Harald died and left the day after his funeral. It was evident that Norwegians had great affection for him, even though some of the younger people I talked with had reservations about the monarchy and some of his relatives by marriage. There were piles of flowers in front of churches, the "blue stone" in Bergen, and the Siftsegarden palace in Trondheim. It was moving to see parents bringing their small children to add flowers and messages. Every museum and hotel I visited had a table by the entrance with his picture and a candle, as did the Havila ship where I spent most of my time. On the day of the funeral, the captain announced a minute of silence at 1:00 PM, and at 4:00, when the official mourning period ended, the ship's horn was sounded (for the first time since he died) and the flags were raised from half to full mast. The funeral was shown on every screen in the public areas of the ship. Not many passengers paid much attention, but I encountered a group of misty-eyed older Norwegians who were watching all of it in one of the bars.

I told many Norwegians that I was sorry for their loss. I also felt lucky to share this part of their lives, an unusual but real "back door" experience. I was disappointed not to be able to visit the interiors of most churches, like Nidaros and Tromso Cathedrals, which were open for mourners but closed to "touristic visits." I did manage to sign the condolence book at Bergen Cathedral's entrance.

Hereditary monarchies seem obsolete and sometimes silly, but there's something to be said for a unifying figure who symbolizes the nation and doesn't engage in politics or policymaking. Many Europeans get theirs either by inheritance (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, UK, Spain) or by elevating a senior politician who's won broad respect across the spectrum to a ceremonial presidency (Germany, Italy). America could use such an institution, though I can't imagine how we might get there.

Posted by
590 posts

For anyone who might be interested, Europe currently has twelve sovereign monarchies.

The 7 Kingdoms: Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, the United Kingdom and Sweden

The 5 other principalities and forms of government

  • Liechtenstein (principality)
  • Luxembourg (grand duchy)
  • Monaco (principality)
  • Andorra (principality / co-principality) [these are the Bishop of Urgell (from Spain) and the President of France]
  • Vatican City (theocratic monarchy under the Pope)
Posted by
4125 posts

I like tradition. I like ceremonies. I love pomp and circumstance. I like royalty.

Windyram

I am impressed by your knowledge.

Do European children study the histories of other European Countries in school?

Posted by
543 posts

Bostonphil, this is definitely a topic where there is no ‘European’ answer.
Every country will study history differently because every country has a different history. And we have a lot of history. I suppose we struggle enough with our own without bringing other countries into it

From my experience and that of my nephews the history of other countries isn't taught specifically but it might crop up as part of wider topics. In primary school the Romans is a popular topic, does that count as Italian history?
I did A level history ( age 16-18), a long time ago, and over 2 years we did the Tudors and European History 1870-1945 which didn’t cover a wide range of European history. A lot on Germany and Russia, what felt like weeks on Bismarck (SO dull). Until then I thought I wanted to study History at university, I changed my mind!

Posted by
590 posts

Every country will study history differently because every country has a different history.

And it goes even further than that.
Take my own country, Belgium, as an example. Here, education is the responsibility of the communities (Flemish, French, and German-speaking), which means that the history curriculum even varies by region.

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In the UK it’s similar with the four countries able to set their own curriculum. I’m not sure how much variety there is in practice

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History is such an interesting subject.

I hate to admit how little i know about the history of The United States.

I try to learn as much as I can when I am going to visit another country but there is way too much.

Right now I am watching The Revolutionaries on Amazon Prime. It takes place in the early to middle 1900's in British India.

It is based on fact but not 100 percent factual. There is some artistic license.

It is very good.

For now, I am focusing on my trip to London but when I return I am going to be focusing on my Iceland / Norway cruise that I am going on next September.