Silent train carriage

Silent train cars are a lovely thing! I booked one on LNER from Edinburgh to London and not having to listen to mindless chatter was wonderful--I was solo and it seemed most other passengers in that car were as well.

Silent (or quiet) cars are a wonderful thing. And not restricted to the Netherlands. Sorry you had to learn the hard way.

Quite a few trains in various countries offer “quiet cars”. Even Amtrak has quiet cars. I think most Americans rarely take the train in the U.S. so their first encounter with quiet cars is while on vacation.

You're not alone. I had a similar experience in Switzerland. Unless you're looking for the signs, they're easy to miss. And now we both know to look for those signs on future trips. 😊

I’m not sure I’d call that a research failure. I don’t recall reading about silent train cars in any of the RS or other guidebooks.

I LOVE those cars and seek them out. Last week, I had a guy across form me start talking on his phone as soon as we pulled out of the station. I ws in a regular car. After 30 minutes, I had enough. I went to the Quiet Car, found a seat and sat there the rest of the journey.

Many train lines have them and I'm thankful.

Let me start by giving some context about the silent compartment on trains in the Netherlands. They only make up a very small part of all the available seats on the trains. The Sprinter trains that stop at every intermediate station don’t have them at all. Only the Intercity trains that cover larger distances and only stop at the larger train stations do have them. But even on an Intercity train, the silent compartment is only about 1/8 of the train.
The fact that it is a silent compartment is indicated on all the windows with the Dutch and English words for silence: “stilte” and “silence”. In addition to that you’ll find the pictogram for “sssh” in the interior walls of the train; a pictogram of closed lips with a raised finger in front of them.
As the name suggests, the rules of the silent compartment are clear; silence. That means no whispering and most certainly not talking at a normal conversational level.

Secondly, I’m puzzled as to why you would find it ironic that the woman on the train asked you to be quiet. How else could she have informed you that you were breaking the rules? Write you a note? Point at the word silence?
I’m a huge fan of the silent compartment, especially when I travel alone. If someone happens to be talking in the silent compartment I will definitely say something about it, regardless of whether it’s a tourist or a fellow Dutch person. So far the only response I’ve received was something along the lines of “Oops, I’m sorry, please excuse me”.
I appreciate that you didn’t like to be told that you broke the rules, but even though it was unintentional you were wrong. And she was right to let you know that.

We prefer to be in quiet cars when traveling on Amtrak. “ Normal conversation” is not quiet. The woman who told you to be quiet was well within her rights. Ride in a regular car next time if you want to talk.

Secondly, I’m puzzled as to why you would find it ironic that the woman on the train asked you to be quiet.

Dutch Traveler, I think the irony was that the woman said it in a “loud tone of voice” per the OP.

I travel on Amtrak from Boston to New York for work. I prefer the quiet car because I am usually working on my laptop and "normal conversation" is distracting and louder than the speaker realizes.

“ Dutch Traveler, I think the irony was that the woman said it in a “loud tone of voice” per the OP.”

Yes, but like I said; what else could she have done? Point at the word “silence”? Mimic to them to please be quiet? Get the train staff to kick them out of the silent compartment?
The OP and his wife were the ones in the wrong here, not the woman on the train who rightfully said something about it.

“ "normal conversation" is distracting and louder than the speaker realizes.”

Hear hear! ;-)

Ride in a regular car next time if you want to talk.

They did not realize they were in the silent car.

I appreciate that the OP took the time to alert others to this so they will not make the same mistake.

Traveling is full of learning experiences. Let’s try to be kind to those who make mistakes.

Yes, but like I said; what else could she have done? Point at the word “silence”?

Dutch Traveler, she could have said it quietly rather than loudly. I think that was what was meant by the irony. There is no argument that the OP made the mistake.

I do thank the OP for posting, We’ve all made mistakes when traveling.

“ Dutch Traveler, she could have said it quietly rather than loudly. ”

Yes, but I don’t see why saying it quietly would make it not ironic. Saying things quietly or even whispering is not allowed in the silent carriage. So the volume at which she spoke is irrelevant here. Because regardless of the volume she used, the woman in question has also broken the rules, but only to alert the OP to the fact that they were talking in a silent carriage.

Like I said, I have alerted people to the fact that they were in a silent carriage. Without exception, everyone apologized and either remained silent or moved to a carriage where they could talk. Not one single person talk back to me that I was now talking myself. So I guess that’s what sort of bugs me here.

I do think we are being unfair to the OP here, who made an honest mistake.

And yes, the other party, rather than being self righteous could have been more courteous in her attitude, instead of being pompous. If @dutch traveller approached me like that (s)he would get an equally curt response, to basically mind his own d... business, and learn to relate to people a bit better.

And yes, I do see the other parties conduct as ironic.

In the UK silent cars are slightly different, it really means no talking on your mobile phone, or playing movies on your device, no loud conversations, be courteous and thoughtful to your other passengers. It does not mean, to say nothing, act as if you are in a monastery.

And this is what Amtrak says about their quiet cars-

Guests are asked to limit conversation and speak in subdued tones.
Phone calls are not allowed and all portable electronic devices must
be muted or used with headphones (passengers using headphones must
keep the volume low enough so that the audio cannot be heard by other
passengers).

So, in other words they are like UK quiet cars (I have emphasized the key words), so even if an American had encountered them on Amtrak, they would not be prepared for such ill-mannered responses from fellow passengers.

the other party, rather than being self righteous could have been more
courteous in her attitude, instead of being pompous. If @dutch
traveller approached me like that (s)he would get an equally curt
response, to basically mind his own d... business, and learn to relate
to people a bit better.

And your response would be less curt? No, it would be many times more rude. I see no self righteousness, pomposity, or discourtesy on the Dutch lady's admonishment to the OP. Direct, or blunt, speech is not an uncommon characteristic in some European countries and is not intended rudeness like your reply would be. Perhaps fhe OP found her comment to be loud because of the otherwise complete quiet by the rest of the occupants in the car.

Dutch Traveler, I think this is just a cultural difference. Dutch people are known as being very direct and frank. To Americans, this can be perceived as rude. It isn’t rude, but it can feel that way if you are not used to it.

If the person in front of me was talking in a quiet car, I would have probably quietly said, ”Excuse me. This is the silent car” and assumed that the people just were unaware.

There wasn’t anything wrong with what the woman did. No one is arguing with you. However, as an American I would probably perceive what the woman said as a scolding and feel similar to the OP.

Sounds like a wonderful atmosphere where someone like Eric Blair could author a novel or two about the world around him. Maybe not, the typewriter could be too noisy.

Or perhaps Agatha Christie could have conjured up a murder mystery with three or four bodies and a plethora of suspects. Murder in silence.

Yes, but like I said; what else could she have done? Point at the word
“silence”?

Actually... That is exactly what I would have done in that situation.

Anyway, my impression is that lots of tourists do not pay attention to signs. I keep seeing people with 2nd class tickets in 1st class. "But how are we to know this is 1st class". Well, it is of course only marked on the outside of the car, the doors, the inside of the car and the headrests of the seats, so yes, easy to miss....

A big difference between Europe and the US is that we use pictograms a lot more. And maybe Americans are not used to that.

What would be useful to know is-is the silent car always the front one, or the rear one, or one somewhere in the middle. If the latter are there platform markings/screen information to indicate where that car stops? In terms of pre-planning I don't see anything obvious on the NS website, or indeed on the Man in Seat 61 website to tell me about this. It may be there on some sub page in either or both cases but nowhere very obvious.

Also are on train announcements made in the silent car? (in which case it isn't really silent). And I don't need lessons in behaviour from anyone here. The trains are public transport. That means other members of the public are travelling, and have an equal entitlement to be in that space (no one has paid extra to be in the silent car). That means being tolerant, and thoughtful. WengenK states the obvious- point to the sign, maybe say something sotto voce. But there are ways and means of giving your message. I will be incredibly helpful and thoughtful to anyone, will bend over backwards to actually relate to people. But when someone is as intolerant as described here (describe it as direct if you want) they must expect a 'direct' response. Being polite and rolling over just feeds that intolerance.
What is being described here, and elsewhere on line, actually sounds like bullying. That needs a response.

The silent car doesn’t have a fixed place in the front, back or middle of the train. On double decker trains it is always on the top floor.
However you can see from the outside whether or not you’re about to board a silent compartment. The huge S and the words silence and stilte can be seen from both the inside and the outside of the train.

There is more information about the silent carriage on the website of NS https://www.ns.nl/en/travel-information/facilities/facilities-in-the-train.html#:~:text=The%20quiet%20zone%20is%20intended,sitting%20in%20a%20quiet%20zone.

Anyway, my impression is that lots of tourists do not pay attention to
signs.

I can’t speak for all tourists, but I know that I am often trying to get on the trains as quickly as possible to get out of everyone’s way. I’m certainly not taking the time to stop along the way to read all the signs. I just want to find a seat.

Well, it is of course only marked on the outside of the car, the
doors, the inside of the car and the headrests of the seats,

Let's keep in mind this thread is under the Netherlands. It is incorrect to assume all countries have their trains all well marked as the Swiss trains.

“ Let's keep in mind this thread is under the Netherlands. It is incorrect to assume all countries have their trains all well marked as the Swiss trains.”

The silent compartments on Dutch trains are well marked also. The words “silence” and “stilte” are clearly visible on every single window of the silent compartment. These words are visible from the outside as well as the inside of the train.
In addition to that, there are pictograms of the “ssssh” gesture on the interior walls of the trains.
On double decker trains, where the silent compartment is always on the upper deck, there is also a marking on the handrail of the stairs leading to the upper deck. This marking is in text and also in braille.

Every carriage can be a silent carriage if you wear noise cancelling headphones.

Sorry Dutch, I should have clarified that I was referring to this comment:

I keep seeing people with 2nd class tickets in 1st class. "But how are
we to know this is 1st class". Well, it is of course only marked on
the outside of the car, the doors, the inside of the car and the
headrests of the seats, so yes, easy to miss....

On my recent trip to the Netherlands and Belgium, the headrests were not marked as they are in Switzerland. And often, the first- class cars were 2 seats by 2 seats, not 1 seat by 2 seats. So, unless you are familiar with what the different seat colors are (I think blue is first class, red is second) it can be difficult to distinguish first class from second in some countries. Of course, once you’ve traveled in the country and pick up on these things, things become clearer.

I think it’s easy to forget what it’s like to be a first-time traveler in a new country. People make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

I’m glad Lew took the time to alert others about the silent train cars. This will help others avoid the same mistake.

As the wife of the original poster I certainly admit we were in the wrong for speaking in a quiet car, but just as one person posted we were rushing to make the train and then find a seat. Adding to that, while most of the Netherlands helpfully adds English to many of its signs, we noticed that many of the trams and trains we were on didn't. When in that situation I find that I start ignoring whatever is written. For those reasons, even though along the bottom fourth of the window I sat next to the word "silence" was written, I did not notice it when hurrying into the seat and once seated I was looking over the top of it as I watched the scenery go by. I was quite literally overlooking the obvious. I don't blame the woman who scolded us; we were in the wrong and I expect we had hit upon her last nerve after a long day at work. After that I was much more careful about signage.

Thank you so much for your post Susan! I hope the rest of your stay here is uneventful :-)

After that I was much more careful about signage.

I'm certainly going to be more aware and looking for these signs when I return to the Netherlands. Such a great country for train travel with the tapping in and out. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

How do airline Business Class passengers respond when you intrude to use their bathroom

On my last few international flights, announcements were made that passengers must only use the rest rooms in their cabin and it was not permitted to go into another section. (i.e. economy passengers should not be using the business class toilets.)

The flight attendants on British Airways used to block off the aisle into first class so no one would wander up there.