Where would you live?

Rick doesn't read this forum. Questions are answered by volunteers. I would suggest you do some research on the countries you are considering. Also find out what it takes to obtain residency in your desired location. Every country in Europe will have different requirements.

adrian,

I've never lived in Europe but have thought about it so have researched the question to some extent. A few thoughts based on my impressions......

• Switzerland - this will probably be the most difficult country to move to and also one of the most expensive to live in. It doesn't seem to be much of a problem for the average rock star or others that have huge sums of money, but the rest of us with more modest bank accounts may not receive such a favourable nod from Swiss authorities. You'll also have to consider the cost of living while there.
• France - based on my research and also conversations I've had with others who have moved to France, this may be the easiest country to locate in. There are many different areas of the country you could settle, each with a somewhat unique culture (ie: Normandy, Provence, etc.). France has the No. 1 health care system in the world, which is a nice thing to have if needed (I believe Italy is also in the top five, according to the W.H.O.).
• Italy - Of all the countries in the Europe, Italy interests me the most so this is the one I've spent the most time looking at. Cost of housing seems about the same as France, but my impression is that the cost of living may be slightly less. However, you'll have to be prepared to deal with an enormous amount of bureaucracy, which could take months to wade through. Hopefully Laurel will spot this Thread as I'm sure she will have a wealth of information to offer.

You'll likely have to prove adequate financial resources and also health care coverage for any of the countries for the duration of your stay. They'll probably want to see detailed financial statements and perhaps tax records. Especially for Italy you may also have to provide notarized copies of your marriage certificate, etc.

If your business pays in US dollars, you'll also have to consider the cost of exchange to pay for lodgings, food and other expenses. Once you've settled on which country you'd prefer, you can then start looking at cities.

The best idea would be to contact the nearest Embassies of the three countries you're considering, as they'll be able to provide the most accurate information on what the requirements are.

Good luck!

InternationalLiving.com would be a good resource for you. I've lived in Paris and loved it. Very child friendly.

I only have experience with Italy, where we have lived for more than two years now courtesy of an Embassy assignment. The bureaucratic path was smoothed by the U.S Government. Since money is not an issue I will confine my comments about economics thus: Rents in Rome and Milano will seem high unless you live in San Francisco, Los Angeles or New York. Smaller towns the rents are not so bad for non-holiday apartments. Electricity and gas are very expensive everywhere. For example, most Italians do not have clothes dryers for this reason. Wattage is also low so you cannot run very many appliances at one time. That may seem like a small thing until you try to make breakfast like an American.

Visas can be obtained under a number of circumstances: Self-employment, elective residence, etc. Be sure to thoroughly research the requirements. You must apply at the Italian Consulate nearest your home. It can take several weeks if not months to obtain your visa. Once you move there are other tickets to punch, so to speak, to get a Permesso di soggiorno a permit to live here long term. This is on top of a visa. The Italian Embassy to the U.S. has a very complete section on visas, well worth studying.

If you really want to do this, why not pick one place in each country and stay for 3-4 weeks living like a local, not a tourist, before you pack up and move? You have to keep your total Schengen Zone stay to 90 days, but it would give you a better idea of what you are in for.

Italians do love children! No question about that. We find it easy enough to live here and truly love it, but you have to put up with some quirks of Italian living. In Rome, parking is a nightmare, people "hog" the sidewalks (anyone who has been here will know what I mean), and the dogs poop everywhere with no scoop laws, but the people are nice and try to help. The food is magnificent and is enough reason to live here. :-) I am in denial about how I will ever acclimate to American food again.

Knowing some Italian is, IMO, essential because if you have an emergency or medical problem, you will not necessarily find a professional who speaks enough English to help you. You can seek our doctors who speak English, but in an emergency you may be on your won.

Are you looking for somewhere for a couple of years until your kids reach school age before moving back to the U.S.? Otherwise, good schools would be a major consideration.

Do you have a working knowledge of French, German or Italian? Can you and your partner easily learn a new language? Or do you need a place where you can live and make friends in English?

Do you want a small town, a major urban center? Do you expect to have a car? When you say "money is not an issue" does that just mean you have a job, or does that mean the cost of living is immaterial because you can afford whatever it costs?

Do you want the country that is most tolerant of children in public places, or the one that has the best facilities for child health care and preschool education?

This is a travel forum. The answers you get here are based on individuals' experiences as tourists, or in a few cases, on an individual's situation in one country. I've lived in two countries for lengthy periods and have many friends in both who have and are still raising children. But I could not compare either of them with a country I've only been to as a visitor. And there are big differences from place to place in both countries, even one that is pretty small.

Based on discussions I have had with friends who are Swiss in the German speaking Cantons and in Lugano (Italian speaking) living in Switzerland is very different from Canton to Canton. In addition to the obvious differences between speaking French, Italian, Romansch and German in different parts of the country, each Canton is ruled by the Swiss version of democracy - mass meetings and compulsory voting for eligible voters and great reliance on referendums - so adjacent Cantons may see things somewhat differently. That's one of the reasons that a national policy on smoking is so hard to achieve.

I know you said you trust Rick's opinion, but remember, he has never lived abroad for a long period in a European country. As you can see from the above replies, the issues facing someone who is living abroad are COMPLETELY different from those facing a tourist on a short visit.

How long do you want to stay, and what paperwork and bureaucratic hoops will you need to jump through to get permission to do this (all three of the countries you listed are Schengen, so if you are a US citizen you can only stay 90 days in any 180 days unless you get a visa)? How easy is it to open a bank account? What is the school system, and how easy or hard will it be for children who have had two years of schooling under a different system to return to a school in the US? Health care may be great in France - but will you be eligible for coverage there? Even if you speak the local language, do your children? Etc, etc.

I agree that you'll do better to look at boards specifically geared to ex-pats. As Chani said, there are some people on this forum who are US-ers who live in Europe, but most of us are travelers.

Thank you all for the info! I understand my question is more for international living expats with children than tourists. Although I appreciate your take on everything. To answer some of your questions, I intend on staying permanatly abroad with no intention to returning to the USA. I don't think we will go as far as relinquishing our citizenship just maybe dual citizenship. Money is not an issue means whatever the costs I can easily pay through any bureaucratic 'problem' ill face. I'm not going to rent anything I know we will buy our own homes, cars, etc. I'm hoping we will be close to the center of a city though not a big one so we won't have to drive everyday. We'd rather live like locals. I'm not worried about schools if we can't find international schools we will settle for public. I know their not all bad. We will not work, think of it as early retirement. I understand there are ways to tie into health care such as insurance and being a permanent resident. I'd like my Children to have a multicultural view in another country, that's one of the biggest reason why we are moving. I sold my trading business to a large corporation hence early retirement. My family and I were think south florida boca raton, palm beach, around there. I've told them many times these place don't compare to europe. We will have a stronger desire to live to move and do things to get involved with locals and arts. In florida it's like your just waiting to die while fishing lol. I hope I can convince my sister to move with me as I can't live there just with my wife and children, I'd need to have the whole fam. Thankyou all for your answers if you know anything else please write! Thanks again.

I understand that Italians love children and it is a great food culture-- but I also know that things have not been easy for women there, as far as being discriminated against, and childcare being a low, almost non-existent priority. So I would suggest you look into this for the most updated information. France has great healthcare.

adrian,

A further thought.....

If you were to locate somewhere in eastern France (perhaps the Alsace region), you'd easily be able to take short trips to Germany and Switzerland not far from northern Italy, so that would provide a good "multi-cultural" experience.

That's also close to the Basel-Mulhouse airport (and relatively easy to FRA or ZRH), so you'd have some good options for escaping to warmer locations in the winter. If you prefer winter sports, Switzerland and the Chamonix area are also not far.

Good luck with your search!

Sounds like you need to set up a pilot trip. Get in touch with ex-pats who are in your age and family parameters and plan a trip to spend some time visiting with them. How easy was it for them to make friends? Your main social connections will be with the families of your kids' schoolmates, since you won't have work contacts. How can you develop other relationships? How easy is it going to be to adapt to the local mindset? What are the schools like, what are the prospects (work, college, compulsory army) for your kids when they finish high school? If your kids don't have good English skills, they will find it very difficult to go to back to the U.S. for school or work. There are subtle things too - you are likely to feel cut off from the world if you don't understand the radio/tv broadcasts or the local papers and announcements. What are you and your partner going to do all day every day?

I don't mean to sound at all discouraging. I think your idea is good, it's just that there are so many things to consider because it is a huge, huge step.

Another solution is to find a good base in the U.S. and use those long school vacations to travel as a family to foreign countries.

Try New York City for a multi-cultual view without visa problems.
Getting your extended family to move long distance is an added complication, plan to visit them.

The Netherlands is another idea, we attended an expat convention which is held regularly in Amsterdam
http://www.iamexpat.nl

I would also consider France, there are several expat forums http://www.expatica.com/fr/main.html

Raising children abroad is certainly viable and reintegratin into American schools happens all the time.
They grow up so quickly, enjoy each phase!

One of the enjoyable parts of travel for me is coming home again and permanent relocation is not travel or vacation.
We concluded it would be nice to live in Europe - as a home base for travel a year or two, but not forever, for us.

So great that you have financial options! No choice needs to be permanent and you have the freedom to explore.

Good luck!

Two things hit me:

1. Why just Europe ?

. In South America, both Buenos Aires and southern Brazil have extensive multi-cultural areas. Living in almost all of Argentina is pretty easy. Paraguay and Uruguay would be the other two candidates.

. Southern Africa has much of the same, especially parts of South Africa and Kenya. Much of the northern tier would be an excellent candidate.

. Asia is wide open, especially Singapore, Korea, most of Japan, and many areas of China. Taiwan is almost in a class by itself for a first attempt.

. If you picked Australia or New Zealand, it might be a year or two before you noticed you'd moved.

1. You're obviously in the preliminary thinking business about citizenship.
   

. You need to refine your concept of dual citizenship. That usually only happens by birth circumstances unless you pick a place where you essentially buy an additional citizenship.

. You can gain another citizenship by renouncing your own, but that's generally a bridge-burner for Americans.

. Visas are mostly a temporary solution.

. You'd probably want non-citizen resident status. Depending on the nation, they're about as easy to come by as a visa, easier if you're self-employed or own property. You can have as many of these as you want.

.

If you have plenty of assets and you don't need to look for employment, or if even you intend to start a company there, you should be able to live anywhere for extended periods of time. That's how the world works. My suggestion is to check with the consular offices of the countries you are interested in to find out your options and the bureaucratic requirements. If you live in California and enjoy the weather there (I certainly do), Italy or Southern France have the weather most similar to California. Northern Italy has Oregon type weather. Switzerland is great if you like mountains. The places most popular with rich American expatriates is Tuscany and Southern France.

My daughter-in-law's mother was born in the UK to American parents so she has always had both British and American passports. Last year she and her husband and her under-18 son got French citizenship after living in Paris for seven years so she and her son have three passports and her husband has two.

Remember that as long as you retain your American citizenship you'll have to pay American taxes. If you settle permanently in another country you'll not only be paying taxes to the IRS but also to the government of the country you are living in. Budget accordingly!
France will allow you to live there for a certain period of time (a number of years) before they require you to begin fully paying into their social system. Until then, there are specific rules about percentages and income that you need to follow to pay into the system. You can't just live there and expect to participate in their healthcare and other benefits free of charge. That said, France would be my first choice if I had young children. It is such a family-friendly place and the lifestyle is wonderful.
Switzerland is very difficult to get permission to live in - they have very tight quotas on immigration and you need to have a reason to be there.
I don't know much about moving to Italy although I know quite a few people who have lived there without a problem.
There is a great website about living in France that I subscribe to that is full of information. They have hard copy magazines and books as well. It deals with living in France, as well as property and how to buy/rent it, taxation, etc. It's a great place to start. They also have this forum that is divided into specific topics that may be helpful in making your decision. Being from California as I am, you may want to look into the southern part of France. From around Montpellier towards the west, there is a large expat community that is very supportive. The area is lovely, the weather relatively mild, and it is very family friendly.
Before making a commitment to any one country, you should spend time living there first. We have done many home exchanges in Europe and have found this a great way to know if a place is one where we would be comfortable living. That's how I know that I would love to live in France, I wouldn't want to live in Italy, and that Switzerland is quite difficult to immigrate to. You really want to spend time in a home, being in a neighborhood, and learning what day-to-day life is really like before committing to a place. Being a tourist and a resident are two very different things!

Here's some advice from an ex-pat. Living abroad is a completely different experience from traveling abroad. You often see discussions on the differences between American and European "culture" on this website, as if those differences were mostly matters of food, leisure and clothing preferences. But to me, the living "culture" is much broader, and it includes the sum experience of everyday living, from the nice stuff we notice when we travel, to more mundane activities, like shopping, paying bills, running errands, dealing with local authorities, signing contracts, separating your recycling and garbage, figuring out what times and days the stores are open, navigating the medical system, getting your car repaired, registering with the postal system, signing a long term rental agreement, calling a plumber to fix your backed-up toilet, etc. When you travel, you pay hotels not just for the room to sleep in, but to arrange all these necessities of modern life for you. When you live here... you're on your own, and often, the procedures are quite different from the US (paying bills is one of the biggest differences). And all of these will be conducted in the local language, not in English. To set up on your own, I really think you need at least a B2 level of profiency in the target language. You can always count on a waiter in a heavily-touristed will know enough English to serve you. You can not depend on the service representative on the other end of the telephone line who you need to set up an appointment to have your internet connection fixed will speak English.

Life in Europe, in many ways, is surprisingly similar to the US. But if differs subtly in enough details to provide an endless series of both delights and frustrations. Make sure you understand the frustrations (which very few will encounter on vacation) before you over-commit. I knew an ex-pat couple who only lasted a year in Germany because the wife couldn't get around the fact that walk-in closets just don't exist over here.

Roninrome.com Is a travel website. Ron and his wife (from Atlanta) lived for a number of years in Rome and supported themselves (I believe) by writing this blog. You can contact him via his website and he will probably give you good advice if it is Rome that you choose.

I'm wanting to spend three months dividing my time between France and Italy. It's a 'dream' at this point, but maybe some day. The previous poster who advised you on the 'mundane' issues such as plumber, postal issues, etc., was dead on correct. It's very different in Europe, and even if you can afford the electricity, I believe it's use is restricted.

Rick has never seemed particularly inclined to live in Europe, although he has said that Stockholm would be high on his list. Each country has cultural expectations which may even be law - such as no noisy lawn mowing on Sundays in Switzerland. Some former Switzerland residents also claim that the Swiss have no sense of humor.

Tom from Germany is right. And it also works the other way around for Europeans moving to North America. Moving to a foreign country is like being born again and having to learn the most basic tasks. It's like having to learn to walk all over again.
I can also tell you that since the death of my father, I have had to take care of family matters in Italy again (from 6000 miles away). But since things have changed so much in Italy over the years since I moved to the US, I had to re-learn how to "walk" again in Italy for the third time in my life. Even the simplest things in life do not necessarily works the same. The process for buying and selling real estate is different. Tax matters are different. Everyday acronyms may be unknown (even if you are fluent in the language). Even something as simple as writing a check, you have to relearn from scratch.
In America for a $200.25 check we write on a check "two hundred and 25/100". In Italy for €250.25, it would be "TwoHundred/25". Fortunately nobody write checks anymore, but then you'd better know what an IBAN and a SWIFT code is.

Some former Switzerland residents also claim that the Swiss have no sense of humor.

I have a good friend who worked in Zurich for several years and lived nearby. He tells of having really good relationships with both natives and ex-pats. He never complained about any lack of Swiss sense of humour.

"Fortunately nobody write checks anymore, but then you'd better know what an IBAN and a SWIFT code is."

Which brings up a good point. In order for paying routine bills not to become an intolerable hastle, you would almost certainly need to open a local bank account. Not an insurmountable task, but with some of the laws that good ol' Uncle Sam passed last year, some European banks may not want to deal with US citizens unless you plan to deposit a particularly large amount of money with them (and Uncle Sam isn't going to look to kindly on all that money leaving the US either). It can be done, but make sure you research monetary transfers very carefully before you make a decision. In a nutsell... it's very easy to transfer money within Europe, it's a pain in the arse to do it from the US to Europe because you have to actually call and talk to a bank representative EVERY TIME.

If money is no object, why not live in an American city with good cultural opportunities and an excellent school system, and then spend a couple months each summer living in a different country? That way your kids will be able to experience much of the world by the time they go to college.

Donna - thanks for the plug.... as mentioned above, living abroad is far different than visiting. We've been fortunate to live in four countries ... with and without the support of the US Gov't. Let me tell you, it's far more difficult when you have to do this on your own. Our biggest challenges living in Italy were the paperwork and the bureaucracy. As my wife was working legally in Italy in an independent position funded by the US Gov't (yet we had NO affiliation with the US Gov't - yes, quite confusing!), we were "eligible" for Italian benefits (but not US Embassy or US Gov't benefits).

The key word is "eligible." When you're living on the economy, and you don't have Embassy or US Gov't support, it can be difficult to GET the benefits you are entitled to. Yes, we got Visas but they took months and in one case, years. We got our permesso di soggiorno easily, but could not get a Certificato di residenza. Without this we could not buy a car/motorino (well, not legally anyway).

We could not get the Certificato di residenza papers because our landlord refused to give us copies of the blueprints of the apartment. That's because they had made illegal (and un-taxed) improvements to the apartment. Without the blueprints, the paperwork could not be completed and thus the police would not come INSPECT the apartment and verify only two individuals were in residence... and don't get me started on trying to get my health card - that was three trips where I stood all day in lines, not able to even get in the door on two attempts.

Then there were the multiple trips to the Immigration Department and the questura (police station). Each year we had to renew. Yes, Italy was BY FAR the most bureaucratically challenged of all our overseas locales. In Denmark, we got all of the above... in less than three hours. France was to take about two, maybe three weeks.

(Although we had many Military and Embassy friends, we did not have the support and privileges they enjoyed. We were living "on the economy." Sometimes it was difficult for our Embassy friends to relate to our challenges -- like once taking 3 weeks to get a toilet fixed in our apartment! They would call the Embassy and someone would be dispatched. I missed the days when we had that type of support! We were fortunate that these friends looked out for us and called us when they were headed to the commissary - Just opening their refrigerators and comparing to what was in our's told you a lot about lifestyles and buying options. We'd eat at their houses so we could "eat American!" )

Certainly money does help, but it's not the solution to all your problems. We employed lawyers and other supporters to try and move our papers through the system. and yes, there were a few payments "in cash" to move these papers to the next step. But don't be misled that you can bully your way through the bureaucracy. And if you even project - arrogantly - that you can (and we had friends that took this route), your quest for documentation will most likely take much longer.

Best advice - KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING INTO. Contact the consulates of the countries you're interested in. Know WHO to call before and after you arrive. Ask questions about visas, health care, required documentation to purchase a car, rent a house, etc. As you have children, what are the available international schools in your preferred area (which is where my wife worked)...

If you have the financial opportunity, hire legal assistance before you arrive; utilize a Realtor to find you a preferred apartment/house. If you don't have the money, start hitting the Expat boards of the countries you want to go to. Start taking language classes as this will help you more than you realize. (have to admit, I gave up on Danish quickly... but at some point if I had stayed, I would have to pass a test in Danish to stay IN the country!)

.... con't....

As we had no US Gov't, US Embassy, or EU status, our path was perhaps one of the more difficult routes. There were many times I wished I had dual citizenship and an EU passport (or worked for the US Embassy) - it would have made our bureaucratic battle almost non-existent. So if you had the option to get an EU passport (and we do not) go get that other passport NOW! It makes living in Europe, driving in Europe, and working in Europe far less stressful.

Again, best words of advice I can offer --- KNOW BEFORE YOU GO --- because once you're there, you'll waste time and money doing the simplest tasks. And brace yourself (if Italy is your choice) for more paperwork requirements than you've ever seen (or heard of). To get my wife's work visa, she had to have all her college diplomas translated into Italian by a certified rep - That was very costly. Then we had to translate our marriage licence so I could get papers... you see how this works! So brace yourself and get your answers up front.

As mentioned above by Tom, Nigel, and Roberto... it's different and similar living overseas and they give some excellent observations of the little things that we take for granted. I can remember trying to explain to an Italian mechanic the noises my motorcycle was making when it needed repair. I am sure for someone walking by it was hilarious.

All that said, would we go back to Italy? Yes - TOMORROW!!!

Ron! Fabulous! This is some of the best insight I've seen on this forum regarding living in Europe...thanks so much for sharing all of this. I think every one of us here (who hasn't been an expat) tend to understand how hard it can be to live full-time overseas but this really makes it come to life. We all have that romantic notion of living the life in Europe but wow...

Thanks Anita,.. We made a lot of mistakes moving to Italy, primarily because we were uninformed (or misinformed). Yet we learned a lot about "paperwork requirements" and how the system works... which is why when we moved to Denmark, we had our"affairs in order." That fact, combined with the efficiency of the Danish system, allowed us to get our "papers" in less than three hours.

Although some of our bureaucratic adventures in Italy were due in part to our ignorance, there were many times when having dinner with other expats they also had stories of their paperwork challenges. As Americans, we take all this for granted - Now, I have far more empathy for foreigners trying to get into the USA.

Living overseas, I met many Europeans who were trying to get entry into the USA. When I became frustrated with a lawyer I was working with in Rome, he got exasperated with me and told me of his struggles to gain a USA visa and said it was no different; In fact, that Italy was easier to get into than the USA. His strongest argument--- You're sitting in Rome, aren't you?

Things in other parts of the world do not work like the USA... and that doesn't make them wrong, better, or worse - just different. And you have to be willing to adapt. And drop the... back in the States.... attitude. Other countries could care less. And well they should - you're a guest in their country now. The USA is a LONG plane ride away!

Until you've had to do the process, you can't fully appreciate the challenges. I think we will relocate back to Europe, but we will go with a better understanding of the system and we will be better prepared. That should make the process less frustrating, but no less arduous in some countries.

But when I think of living in Italy, I don't think of the bureaucratic nightmares... Nope, I think of our Italian friends, the day-to-day life in Italy, incredible food, riding our motorino to the beach or lake, shopping at the Mercato Trionfale market, having dinner at 9 PM sitting outside with friends, swinging by and seeing the Pope every Wednesday, jumping on a train or plane for a short ride to other parts of Europe, the beaches in Sardinia, the cliffs, views and winding roads of Amalfi, driving through Tuscany stopping at all the farms... and on and on....

Living overseas, whether you're in the US Gov't, Embassy, or simply on the economy like us, is a privilege. We were always aware that we represented our country. In Denmark, at least 15 minutes of a dinner with Danish friends was always spent explaining/defending the latest US actions. As a country of only 5 million, they were convinced we knew everyone in Washington DC !

But we always knew we COULD come home. And that's a comforting feeling. As we move toward the July 4th holiday, I can tell you that expats DO celebrate this holiday in our own way when overseas. And you do have a greater appreciation of the freedoms and liberties that we as Americans have.

So if you're moving overseas, on your own, get ALL the information you can. And be prepared to be frustrated, exasperated, etc. but keep your long-term goal in sight.... that you'll be laughing about it months from now at a corner cafe and comparing stories with new friends in a new country.

Ron's story resounds with what I've heard about Italy. Germany is quite a bit more efficient in this aspect, although my employer helped me with some of the more challenging and less transparent parts.

Tom, I've heard the same stories of friends who settled in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland.. and even France.

Our situation was perhaps the worst-case scenario. We had no government, embassy, military or corporate support - We just MOVED to Italy! And although my wife had a legal, licensed, employment contract BEFORE we left the USA.... her employer provided no support. We were told "not to worry" by her employer, but after 3 months of being in-country we were surely worried!

We brought no cars, no furniture, no personal goods... simply as much as we could pack in suitcases. Now, my wife did travel with 9 suitcases - still a record for anyone who has worked at the AOSR school. We did accumulate lots of "stuff" and thus we used shipping services to move everything to Denmark. Then, before returning to the USA, we sold EVERYTHING - from TV's to bikes to silverware!

When we return to Europe, we will do many things differently. Kudos to all the folks living overseas and working through the challenges and procedures. And hoping you celebrate the Fourth of July in your own way.

Thank you, Ron, for bringing a realistic perspective to moving overseas, especially to Italy where this question was posted. When you were our tour guide in Rome in 2009, I was as fascinated by your experiences of living there as I was by what we saw.

Many of the forums here have had questions relating to moving to Europe to live, often without any support systems (like employers) to help them. Most have been very naive about the work they will have to do to make that happen.

I'm a House Hunters International addict and always wish that there would be at least a brief comment about how the ones moving on their own got to the point of being allowed to look for a place to live. Moving from state to state in the USA is not without work, but it's trivial compared to what is involved in moving to another country -- even for those with lots of money.

Anita said "Remember that as long as you retain your American citizenship you'll have to pay American taxes." Not true. The first $96,000 is exempt from U.S. taxes unless you work for the government or are on Social Security.

Is adrian still interested in this discussion? Or have we completely destroyed his dream . .

We have lived in France for sixteen years on a 6 month here and six month back to the U.S. basis. It may be the dream of many, but it is not a piece of cake. We found buying a house in France was quite easy, with less papers to sign than in the U.S., but the banking system can drive one insane. After the past few years of having to put up with our bank not depositing the money from our cleared checks for up to eight weeks, we now simply withdraw money on our ATM and hand it over to the bank to put into our account. This also saves us a transfer fee from our European bank. We have watched many people move to France thinking that everything here is perfect and much better than their places of origin, only to watch them become disillusioned when they find that this may not be true. We have certainly enjoyed our time here and for us it was a choice between France and Italy. Did we make the right choice? We will never know. Sometimes we are sorry that we didn't settle in Italy, but we would have the same questions about living in France if we had decided on Italy. The one thing I would suggest to anyone moving to Europe is to rent for the first few years as this will give you the option of moving if you are not happy with your location. If you are the type who likes a lot of action and are people oriented, then I think that Italy would be your choice. Things in France close up early in the country and there are no cafes where one spends an evening visiting and watching the world pass by. Believe me, the world is in bed. I can assure you that the weather is better in Italy if you like sun. Be sure to look on your map and see how far north France is located. After sixteen fantastic years here, we are now ready to return to California and spend more time with our children and grandchildren. Anyone want to buy a house?

I should have been more specific when I wrote about US taxes, differentiating between state and federal taxes. Since Adrian is from California I think that he should know that there are some states, including California, that do not simply release citizens from state taxes just because they live overseas. Some states don't make it too difficult to get out of taxes but California makes it really tough. It is my understanding that to be exempted you have to prove that you are NEVER returning. They confirm this through mortgages, utility bills, etc. You have to cut all legal ties to get out of paying. It's not an easy process!
We have friends who moved to Aix-en-Provence that lived there long enough to have to fully pay into the French tax system. That, combined with CA state income tax (they still owned their home here so couldn't get an exemption) was financially too much for them so they ended up moving to Morocco where it was cheaper to live. Taxes can be a factor and should be considered if you currently live in one of the few states that makes it difficult to get out of paying them.