What is a reason amount of time to explore northeastern Italy?

Not if you want any time to spend in Milan, or Rome. Consider the travel times—-Nice to Milano is a minimum of 5 hours, with the best connections. Add another 2 + hours if you want to continue to Varenna that same day. The town of Como would be less, but also less charming.

Then from Varenna to your chosen village in CinqueTerre would be another 6 hours or so, unless you stay in Monterosso.

And Monterosso to Rome is another 4-5 hours. So significant parts of 3 of your 8 days will be consumed with travel, leaving 5 days to divide among Lake Como, Cinque Terre, and Rome.

If you want to explore “northeastern Italy” and are coming from Nice, you could easily craft a nice trip staying closer to Lake Como, maybe with Lago di Garda, or Verona, or Bologna, and fly home from Milan.

What time of year is this trip? Some of your choices might not be at their best, depending on your month of travel.

Thank you ❣️
We are 3 grade school (older) friends from Denver that did the Best of Europe in October 2022. We had a blast! We did spend an extra 4 days in both Rome and Paris to see more of those cities. So now trying to plan another 3 week trip to both countries to catch what we missed. We are in the planning stage for October 2025. I have had more actual travel under my belt than either of the friends. I’m pretty comfortable taking trains. We know we will get local guidance along the way. I am the one suggesting the Italy itinerary to the places we missed on the tour. Any suggestions welcome❣️

I like the idea of flying home from Milan! Plenty to see there!

First of all by Nord-Est (North East) we mean the Tri Veneto regions (Veneto, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Trentino-Alto Adige), therefore none of the places you mention.

Having said that, Lola gave you the scoop. It’s a lot of real estate you are trying to cover in 8 days. It’s doable, but I would do Nice to Cinque Terre, Cinque Terre to Lake Como, Lake Como to Milan then fly home from Milan. I wouldn’t insert Rome in this picture, unless you prolong your vacation. Rome alone deserves at least 3 days (and even that is barely enough to cover the basics).

no time in Nice or on the Côte d'Azur? Pretty nice area...

Yes, we are planning at least 10 days in France. We are so excited and want to do it all. So now we are becoming more realistic. This has really helped. Thoughts on renting a car to do the south of France? We would have so much more flexibility.

Almost all the destinations along the Riviera itself are more easily visited by train. Most of the towns in the hills (St-Paul-de-Vence, Vence, Eze, etc.) require buses if you don't have a car. For that area, the utility of a car depends on the particular mix of places you want to see.

Provence definitely benefits from availability of a car if you want to see the picturesque little villages. Trains should work fine for larger places like Aix-en-Provence, Arles, Avignon and Nimes. St-Remy has bus service from Arles and Avignon.

Extra credit for more help!
Now we are considering renting a car in Nice for more options in southern France ? Thoughts?
Could we drive for a week in Italy staying away from big cities ? We do want to be safe and reasonable . We truly appreciate all the suggestions and experiences of the RS clan!

I believe that area would be more NW Italy.

Don’t forget that getting a rental car in France and returning it in Italy will cause you to incur whopping big extra charges.

We did know that- our thought was to return it to Nice and fly home from there.

As Rosalyn says, you will incur a huge drop fee if you take the car from France to Italy and leave it there. So it is fine to rent a car in France, but you should return it in France and take the train from there.

Another reason to ditch the car in France is that the train is a much better way to reach Cinque Terre. If you follow Roberto’s excellent suggestion and head straight to Cinque Terre first, you can take the train down from Genoa. Driving down the coast is not fun at all—-the road goes through one dark tunnel after another, with opportunity to see the sea, or anything else. I did that drive northbound with friends years ago, and I never ever want to see a road like that again.

YIKES! THANKS FOR THAT REALITY CHECK!

”our thought was to return it [the car] to Nice and fly home from there.”

That’s a waste of time when you have so little time in Italy, already.

Pause and think about how much time it takes to reach each location by train & by car - be realistic with the times for driving and where it will take extra time parking outside each city - large or small. (Are you familiar with ZTL’s?). Then when you have the full picture, select what is really important on this trip. The post began with very touristy locations and then replies are speaking more of countryside towns.

Thanks for all the feedback!
This has given us a lot to consider. We really have decided not much time in the big cities and enjoy ourselves. We know it sounds crazy, but we have scaled back our must see places to only 5 and taking 18 days to get them in.
Because we are realistic about the fact that it will be our last trip to France and Italy.
1. Mont St Michel.
2..Chamonix
3. Lake Como
4.Cinque Terre
5. Nice
Not quite sure of the route yet. But these place are bucket list musts! We are open to both trains and cars if they make any sense to just enjoy being there and flexible.
We are sure we will have another GRAND ADVENTURE!
Again, all thoughts and ideas are very much appreciated!

There's a rail line along the Riviera that will take you to all the coastal locations in that area except for St.-Tropez, which is at the far western end. There's bus service to most of the nearby hill towns I most often see mentioned here (including Eze, St-Paul-de-Vence and Vence), but it your plans tilt really heavily to the hill towns rather than the coastal spots, you might prefer to stay up in the hills and have a car. Most folks seem to manage very well by using trains and an occasional bus from a base on the coast.

I found Nice very convenient and liked it--not least because of the many art museums in the city. However, if you prefer a smaller-town environment, there are other options right on that same rail line. Villefranche-sur-Mer and Antibes are among those often mentioned here. It would be best to have a list of your possible day trips off the coast before finalizing the lodging on the Riviera, so you can check bus availability. I believe a lot of the buses fan out from Nice itself. I suspect you'll find nice, reasonably priced lodging options in Nice itself; it's a pretty competitive market.

The mid-lake, ferry-served towns on Lake Como are extraordinarily popular and thus rather expensive during peak season. Late October would be well past the peak; I'm not sure what demand is like early in the month. It's worth considering in this area that the best views tend to be from the lake itself, not from the roads along the lake (views often being blocked). The easiest way to get around the most picturesque, mid-lake area is to use the ferries, which means most folks prefer to stay in accommodations within easy walking distance of one of the ferry docks. I don't know what things are like on the Varenna side of the lake, but on the opposite (Menaggio/Tremezzo/Villa Carlotta/Villa Balbianello) side, traversing the lakeside road to a ferry dock often involves walking on a very narrow, unprotected shoulder for part of the time. I found the drivers courteous and had no close calls, but this is something to think about if potential lodgings are some distance from the nearest ferry dock.

Great insight! Thank you for taking the time to respond!

Because we are realistic about the fact that it will be our last trip
to France and Italy.

> 1. Mont St Michel.
> 2..Chamonix
> 3. Lake Como
> 4.Cinque Terre
> 5. Nice
> Not quite sure of the route yet.

Honestly- this is not a realistic itinerary. You are trying to cover far too much ground.
On your Best of Europe tour 14 days/13 nights? you covered a lot of ground but remember the transportation was all handled for you and was quicker and easier than it will be on your own.

Just for fun- go to rome2rio.com and start putting in your 5 stops. Or Google maps- whatever you use for research.
There is an awful amount of travel time between these stops. Then to get to/from your arrival and departure cities.

Mont Saint-Michel is lovely for a 1 night stay or day trip- but so far flung and not so easy to get to- just not worth all that travel time. It’s usually seen along with Normandy beaches- any interest in that area?

From MSM It is almost 600 miles to Chamonix. Chamonix is also not so easy to get to. Opposite directions from Paris where you would likely fly in to or out of. Or have to pass thru changing trains.

I love both France and Italy. I would suggest choosing one or the other.
Why are you sure this will be your last trip to either?

18 days is a nice amount of time- how many NIGHTS will you have on the ground in Europe? Try to stay 2-3-4 days in each location.

We did a 3 week road trip - Paris to Provence via Normandy beaches/MSM/Loire/Dordogne. Good fun. Flew home from Nice. Loved everywhere and especially Nice and want to return.
And a 2 week road trip- Beaune, Dijon, Colmar…
France is very big!
Anyway- I’d say you need to narrow trip down a bit more- good that you are planning well in advance.

What are your interests? art, antiquities, hiking, food, wine?

We took the Best of Europe tour (the My Way version) in 2013, and have been back to France and Italy each a few times since then, mostly traveling by train. When you're waking up, throwing your bag on a bus and getting transported to the next place, travel days are easy. Your plan for a three week trip may be doable, but it is not going to be a ton of fun unless you love sitting on trains. The novelty of train travel wears off pretty quickly. Have you wrangled luggage for three ladies (plus purchases you'll inevitably make along the way) on and off public transportation every other day for three weeks? We are disciplined "carry on only" travelers, but that's always the worst part. Are your friends always on time, light packers, never grumpy (esp when hungry)?
I echo Christine's question - why do you think this is your last trip? There is always fear of missing out, but it's not possible to do it all. Every trip, we have to weigh what all we want to see versus the reality of getting from place to place. My rough rule of thumb for a two week trip is no more than 4 different beds and if I lose more than ~ a half day to travel, that it's only once in two weeks. That definitely limits what all we can see, but I always assume we'll be back. I prioritize quality over quantity.

Regarding renting a car. My husband is retired Navy and has driven all over the world. We love renting cars for the flexibility and freedom they allow, but ANY degree of driving in a town larger than a village is stressful. Then there's the time the parking garage was locked overnight and we couldn't get the car out, and the time the car got towed when we parked in a lot that was used for the market the next day. Both totally our fault for not reading the signs (which of course were in French). We are pretty easy going and don't let these things ruffle our feathers, but stuff happens. We have had many wonderful excursions with no issues at all, and we'll absolutely rent a car when it makes sense. Caveat emptor.

”We are 3 grade school (older) friends from Denver that did the Best of Europe in October 2022. We had a blast! We did spend an extra 4 days in both Rome and Paris to see more of those cities. So now trying to plan another 3 week trip to both countries to catch what we missed.”

Okay, I’m going to throw out a different idea. You had a wonderful time with your friends on the RS tour. Now you’re wanting to go back to both France & Italy. Why not do a couple of RS tours together again? From the post responses, I think it would take care of all of the planning & transportation issues, no driving fines, no delays of trying to find parking outside of ZTL’s, no one complaining because you didn’t plan something well, no one complaining about the amount of time on a train, etc.

Remember how much fun you had because you were just concentrating on the fun aspect of your trip? If this must be your last trip together (my sympathies if one of you has health issues), then I think the RS tour is definitely the way to do it! I will suggest the Village Italy & whichever French one you might enjoy. You can fly from Milan to Paris (Easy Jet or similar are less than $100) or take the train to begin the second tour. Or, do the Village Italy and just fly over to Nice and enjoy a week along the French Riviera. I spent five days there a few years ago and still had much more I could have done. The train & bus connections along there are very handy.

WOW….We are crazy! And we aren’t 21 anymore. Again thank you all for taking the time to jump in on this adventure!