Weighing driving/trains on all or part of this path

Everything is served by trains except Spiazzi, Bellagio by ferry from Como or Varenna. A car would be especially troublesome in Milan, Padua, Venice, Bologna, Cinque Terre, Rome.

hey hey mjm122696
make sure you get an IDP (driving permit) when renting your car. AAA.com has them ($25, two passport photos for each driver, get it same day, good for one year) read up on it.
how short is your venice trip and will you park car at the parking garage (piazzale roma) or other parking nearby and how much it costs? just be prepared before you get there.
also what the parking is like in the places you want/wish to go to.
venicerevealed.com/parking in venice having a car is a detriment in some of the cities you plan to visit, parking places may be away from places you're staying and having to push/pull your luggage to get there with parking places being very small.
aloha

We would try to pick up a car on the northern side of Milan, as it would only be to get us towards Bellagio. This isn't needed, we understand, but we are thinking it would be helpful to get to Spiazzi. We've considered dropping the car in Padua, as trains seem to service the rest of the cities fairly easily. Again, just weighing the options. Thanks.

Yes, we've done the AAA international driving permits before. Thanks.

We would not need to drive in Rome and would drop the car in the closest available rental.

Venice might only be for a couple of hours.

You can rent a car in Verona to see Spiazzi, and return it at the same location.
All other destinations are well served by train (Bellagio by ferry from Varenna, the closest train station), and all larger cities you mention (and the Cinque Terre) are not car friendly at all, with lots of traffic restrictions for non residents and parking difficulties. Basically your car would be parked in a garage for most of your trip, and moving from place to place would not be any faster than going by train..

Hello mjm122696,

Agreeing with the previous posts here about most places not needing a car or a car even being an expensive burden.

Just a couple of notes on your locations since they seem to be a scattered series of highlights rather than a plan at this point.
Weather at Lake Como in mid April is probably not going to be much more than 60 and potentially rainy while Bellagio is a pretty and upscale town I'm not sure you'll get the whole ritzy experience early in the season. I was thinking unless you're committed to Como you could concentrate your lake days around Lake Garda instead. I would give you some of that lake experience - it may be a few degrees warmer - and if you combine it with Verona it would be a good base for visiting Spiazzi, Padua, and even Venice if you're only looking for a quick visit there. Old town Verona is charming and gentile and feels small for as big a city as it is.

A few days on Lake Garda and then a few days at Verona for the various trips and then off to Bologna via the fast train is an easy plan to put together.

I would advise you're probably early season for CT as well which will cut down on the tourists but will also affect the weather and how many things might be open. CT is also an outlier geographically - it usually is - so it would take some effort to get there.

If I was putting this together I would do Milan > CT (4 or so hours by train) > Verona (5 hours by train) > days trips, including a couple of days on Lake Garda > Bologna (1 hour by train) > Orvieto > Rome > Bracciano > Rome.
But by dropping CT you go from 10 hours by train to 1.5 hours Milan to Verona and plan becomes a very manageable fast train Milan > Verona > Bologna > Rome with day trips or some stops (Orvieto) along the way.

Obviously what you want to see is what you want to see and it's up to you. These are just my logistical thoughts as someone who (over) plans trips.

Whatever you decide have a great trip!
=Tod

hello,
I advise trains and public transport all the way!! No need to rent a car and all the headaches that go along with it-meaning ZTL's!! There are so many posts about these restricted driving areas on this and other forums- and even if you drive thru them accidently (which you most likely will) you will incur heavy fines (hundred/thousands) of euros and many times years later (because for some unknown reason people are supposed to be notified yet are not??) - because you don't get notified it then goes to collection, you have to wire money overseas, the rental car company also fines you, it is just all a big headache best avoided! Take buses/trains, it is much easier and convenient! and download the FreeNow taxi app, as well as Italo and Trenitalia train apps, and the Flixbus app and you will be fine.

Happy Travels

Our 2022 trip to Italy was confined to N Italy. Florence was the furthest south. We did all trains (2 of 70ism age). I love the trains - fast, pleasant, clean, mostly on time.

“A couple of hours” in Venice is in my humble opinion, not worth doing.
It takes 3/4 of an hour to get from either the station or parking garage to anything like central Venice.

Aussie, I was going to mention the same thing. In my opinion, there is no worthwhile way to do a "quick" trip to Venice. Unless it's the OP's goal to just go to St. Mark's Square and say they've "done" Venice. But, even then, it's a lot of work to get there for such a quick stop.

Thanks all.

Special thanks to Roberto- your suggestion of possibly renting and returning a car in Verona is just what we needed to consider. THANKS!!!

HiredMan- We are especially pondering your specific, detailed evaluation. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
If you have a moment, please help us think this through. Milan, Lake Garda ("on the way" to see the cliffside monastery), Spaizzi, Padua (worthy stop along the path?), San Marino, Bologna, Orvieto, Bracciano, Rome
We understand CT is off the path and quite a journey. IF we were to go with the included edited cities, where do you think it makes the most sense to include it? According to a quick search, Padua to San Marino to Bologna is significantly quicker to drive than train. Wd you consider driving these legs?

Thanks a million for the helpful edits!!

Hi, am I reading your past post correctly that all of these places you’re listing in this current post will be completed April 10-15? So, 10 places in 6 days?

I move locations a lot more often than most on this forum - seriously a lot more, and this plan will give you a checklist, hours on the trains or car, and so much less satisfaction than if you narrowed this down to what is a true priority for your group.

Sadly, I can almost guarantee that you will hate Venice. It just doesn’t cooperate with any rushed passing, and the piggly wiggly maze of paths & bridges & more bridges that are so enchanting will, instead, be an annoyance. Even a full 24-day is too short there.

Obviously, this is your trip, your decisions, but I would drop Milan, Bologna & Padua if this is your first look at Italy.

Thanks. We land in Milan. Plan to see two things upon arrival and depart the following morning.
Considering dropping Padua, most likely dropping Venice, switching Lake Garda for Lake Como, and need to map/research adding San Marino. Weighing if Cinque Terre is worth the travel time. We’ve both been to Italy before, neither have been to CT.
Thanks.

So I understand you will spend the first night in Milan to visit a few things on the day of arrival.

Bellagio/Lake Como. I would drop spend the night in Bellagio, but if you must absolutely visit lake Como, you could stay an extra night in Milan (therefore 2 in total), and use the second day (after the first night) to take a day trip to lake Como. If you take the train to Varenna-Esino you can be there in 70 min. Varenna itself is pretty enough, but you can easily take a short 10 min ferry ride across the lake and visit Bellagio as well. Take the train back to your hotel in Milan at the end of the day. This plan would save you time because changing hotels is really a time consuming effort (unpack/repack/check out etc.) in addition to the fact that you also need to think about where to store luggage while on the go.

Verona and Spiazzi. Spiazzi is almost 1 hour drive from Verona (45 km). The town is served also by bus with the ATV company (Verona's bus company), but you might need to change buses in Bussolengo or Caprino, so a rental car or a private driver would save you time if you have time constraints. Actually a private driver or private tour from Verona, although maybe more expensive, would save you the most time because the process of renting a car and returning the rental car takes time. A private driver can pick you up in Verona and take you to Spiazzi within one hour. Maybe there are small group tours that can accomplish the same for less money. You might need at least two nights in Verona to accomplish your visit at the Sanctuary and also to see Verona, which is probably the prettiest city in the Veneto region after Venice.

Venice. You need two nights at least here, so that you can enjoy a full day for the city.

So we have used 6 nights already and I don't know how many you have.

If you want to see the Cinque Terre, it's at least 5-6 hours from Veneto by train, therefore you'd need to spend at least a night or two to see anything, also because in April daylight is short. It's hard to reach from any location, so you may not have the time to see it, but if it's a priority for you, you need to drop other nights elsewhere because you need at least one night here.

I don't think you have time for Bologna and Padua, as both would need a day each to see. San Marino is a waste of time for someone with time constraints. So unless you need to check another country to your list, I'd skip it.

Orvieto can be seen in an afternoon, but there is no luggage storage at the station, so you need to plan for a luggage storage service like Radical Storage.

Rome is a multiple day destination. I don't know if you have been before, but if you chose to fly out of Rome I presume you wanted to see something there otherwise you would have chosen another airport more to the north to depart from (e.g. Milan, Venice, Bologna, Florence)

Bracciano is visitable by train or Co.Tra.L bus from Rome, if you have enough time while in Rome.

If you want to visit CT then it should follow Milan as every other destination you mention takes you away from the Ligurian coast.
It is about 4 to 4:30 hours on the train to get from MIlan to La Spezia (the biggest station near CT) usually with one change but some intercity trains go direct. Once you're local you can take the ferry or train to the town(s) that interest you. You will then probably need to reverse this travel to get back to MIlan heading back.

Milan to Verona is straight line and takes 1:15 on the fast train. Verona is charming city and would make a good base for any day trips you wanted to do in this area. You could rent a car and visit Spiazzi and then drive to any of the coast towns of Lake Garda - Malcesine is popular and has the midlake ferry to Limone Sul Garda and Riva del Garda for the lake cruise experience. (It may be early season for Lake Garda so I would confirm ferry schedules and closures when you have dates.)
Padua/Padova is an easy 45 minutes on the train from Verona and Vicenza is on the way so you could make a day of Vicenza and Padova in either direction.
Venice is 1:15 on the fast train from Verona. Many people day trip to Venice but if you're not willing to dedicate at least a full day Venice is probably not worth it. I would advocate for spending at least a night - or several - to experience the city.

Bologna is about 2 hours on the fast train from Verona. And when you're ready to move on Orvieto lies on the fast train line to Rome. Unfortunately the fast train doesn't stop in Orvieto so your best bet is fast train to Florence and then a local train from Florence to Orvieto - probably about 3 hours. Leave the train station and take the funicular to the hilltop city.

Orvieto to Rome is about 1:30 hours. I can't see a practical way to get from Orvieto to Bracciano without going through Rome so I would do it as a trip from Rome. You can bus (45 minutes) or train (1:15) to Bracciano from Rome so you could do it was a day trip if the timing works are spend some time there.

Obviously the timing of all these places are up to you. The general rule of thumb is 2 nights is one full day some place so I never stay 1 night somewhere unless it tied to logistics like landing from or catching a flight. So I would allocate something like:
Milan: 1 night (I would actually do 2 to allow for jet lag)
[CT here - least a couple of nights to make the 8 hours or train travel worth it]
Verona: 4 nights - 2 days trips and one day for Verona
[Rent car] Malcesine (or other Lake Garda town): (at least) 2 nights - see Spiazzi on the way and at least one day for the lake
[Return the car in Verona, train to Bologna] Bologna (at least) 2 nights
Orvieto 1 night (I would say 2)
Rome: (at least) 3 nights
Bracciano: day trip or (at least) 1 night
[train to Rome] at least 1 night - fly out

Anyway these are my minimum timings. Don't under estimate how disruptive packing, travelling with your bags and then finding the new place is to your day and how much time that will eat up. Taking a day trip without luggage is much more relaxing that then same trip with luggage and the obligation of finding the new hotel on the other side.

Be sure you're leaving enough room to slow down and experience the pace of life and the culture which is much of the reason I like to visit Italy.

Hope this helps,
=Tod

Hired man- Thanks so much!!!!!
What about:
Milan- Spend night
Train to Verona, Rent car
Drive to Spiazzi (Seeing Monastery on a cliff) Spend night
Drive to Malcesine, check ferry schedule to Pieve (possible to hire driver for Strada della Forra and/or Limonaja la Malora (May be too far south) Spend the night in Malcesine
Drive to Church of Magdalenna - Spend night
Drive to Bologna- Spend night
Organized tour out of Bologna- Spend night
Drive to San Marino- Spend pm
Drive to Orvieto and Civita Di Bagnoregio- Spend night nearby
Drive to Bracciano for 4-hour tour, drop car and train to Rome or drop car on outskirts of Rome
Rome- Spend night near airport

I hear the replies about not wanting to change abodes every day (save one). Is there a base based on this agenda? We LOVE the train system, but it seems several places we're going are not serviced by trains...and we don't even mind a train and two busses or the like, but ON PAPER, it seems as if working around the specific driving rules, parking concerns, etc. with a car MIGHT be better than longer travel times of public transport and having to juggling the different schedules at this time of year. We see there are some tight spots. You are correct, not leaving down time is our weak spot. Thanks for helping us think this through. Truly, we appreciate you spirit!!!

I just did all our driving from Siena, through the tuscan hill towns, then down to Napoli. Italian drivers are impatient, dangerous and sometimes downright scary. We made it out without a scratch or dent, but when I told our private driver in Sorrento that I drove into Napoli to return our car at the central train station he looked at me like I was a crazy woman! Just know that you will be in for a wild ride dealing with all the impatient Italian drivers constantly trying to drive around you (no matter how fast you are going) and riding your rear bumper until you pull over and let them pass. It's not for the faint of heart!

We've never driven in a major Italian city, that's what public transit is for. However over the years we've done driving trips thru Umbria, Tuscany, and Marche. Never once had a problem with Italian drivers. And because we don't know where the traffic cameras are hidden we carefully obeyed the speed limits. Most of the roads in the region between hilltowns are relatively low in traffic density. We never took the autostrada since we just used a car to visit towns in the area, not long-haul driving (trains are a better choice)

Thanks, Diane and John!!!!! Good to know!!!! Glad you made it unscathed!!!

You're list of potential interests keeps changing so it's hard to suggest a base of operations.

I think you need to define what you really want to see, group them into locations and see if you can find a common base for groups of them and plan accordingly. It is much cheaper and easier to rent and return in the same place is you can do that so multiple bases makes sense that way too.

The only other reminder I would add is that if you are not staying in one place as a base and are depending on driving around you will have times you are parking your rental with all your luggage in it.
I cannot warn you strongly enough against this as a plan.
Parking a rental car near some jump off point for something touristy - like San Marino and planning to leave it there for hours is a recipe for avoidable disaster.

Also renting a car is expensive so grouping your activities together when you have a car will lower your cost and save you a ton of headaches in the meantime. You will probably regret having a car in Bologna - it an unnecessary burden in the city and city driving is a challenge. =The only place on your newest southern excursion that requires a car is Civita Di Bagnoregio. If you were to leave that off you could easily accomplish everything without a car. Also be sure you have checked details like can you actually return a car in Bracciano? It is a town of less than 20K people so even if it has a car rental agency that will allow a drop off you will be forced to rent from them at your starting point. Orvieto has a Hertz location, but only Hertz so drooping a car off there limits your choices.

I know planning is fun but be realistic about what and how much you can see in the time you have and make some hard choices.
You will enjoy your trip more if you assume you'll be back and leave some things until next time.

=Tod

There is bus service from Orvieto to Bagnoregio, from which you can walk or take a bus to the bridge over to Civita. I don't believe there's Orvieto-Bagnoregio service on Sundays, though, and it's possible there are fewer buses on Saturday than on weekdays.

https://servizi.cotralspa.it/PercorsiTariffe

Use Orvieto Scalo as the origin point (departure from near the train station; inquire locally) and Bagnoregio as the destination.

So, it seems you are spending 8 nights in Italy, and going to 8 places. Will you get out of the car? What about eating?

Have you made airline reservations on this trip? If not, perhaps a more pleasant trip can be arranged.

I would pick three locations. 2 big city, 1 smaller city. I would stay a minimum of 2 nights in each place.

Another rational idea is to pick a central location like Florence. Stay in the same hotel for the whole trip. Spend 3 days in Florence, then do day trips using trains/buses to nearby towns.

Your thought to spend a single night in each city will result in a rushed trip with almost no time to actually do touristic things. Here's a way of testing the idea. Find 2 local cities that you have not been to. Get in your car. Drive to the first, Find a hotel, go in, unpack. Have dinner. Do something. Next morning, get up, pack up, drive to the second town, rinse and repeat. Do you think you will enjoy this trip?

Yes, sorry for the changes. We dropped CT, Lake Como, Padua, and Venice. Lake Garda is in the vicinity of Spiazzi which streamlines a bit and several things there caught our eye to consider.

We can’t tell so far with accuracy if we would be able to see the Church of Magdalenna area at this time of year. A number of places to stay are closed at this time. We have also considered dropping Civita Di Bagnoregio if we hit San Marino.
We will consider your strong warning about smash and grabs. Thank you.
Yes, we will check the car rental agencies when we have cities firmed up.

Thanks for the link.
Airline reservations cannot be changed.
My friend has already been to Florence, Rome, Venice, and a number of the bigger cities extensively. I have also spent time in Italy and will be staying another week or so after Rome visiting Florence and the surrounding area. That is why our list seems so random and crazy.
Yes, my friend and I are AOK with this type of trip. It’s not for everyone, to be sure, and we do need to decide what’s REALLY important, but we’re ok with rushed. I think the longest driving day is four hours and we’re staying two nights upon arrival.

Thanks to all.

Does anyone know with accuracy if the Val di Funes is possible to see mid-April?
All the best.

hey hey mjm122696
totally amazed or dumbfounded with as many places you are hoping to be/see in the short amount of time you will be there.
totally agree with paul-of-the-frozen-north. having a car can be a real detriment, hotel check-in is 3-4pm check-out 10-11am. where will you keep you luggage? what plans in evening with not much touring and leave early morning.
chose two places to stay and day trip, mid april is easter, spring break for many, crowds and waiting in long lines. there seems to not be an off season anymore, busy all year long nowdays with "revenge travel" maybe until next year. many of your hoping/wanting/seeing places are the same places many want to see.
would not waste few hours in venice at all, if can't spend couple days, don't go.
my own opinions, it's your holiday. i'd go back to square one and do the most important and if okay to miss. ride the trains.
rent car in verona, take your day ride to spiazzi (are you going to see the sanctuary of madonna della cortona. rossiwrites.com/madonna della cortona).
we stayed at hotel nettuno in bardolino for oct festa del uva and loved the area and lake.
whatever you decide go have fun and enjoy, relax, get a cappucino, and have some tiramisu with lemonciello.
aloha

"Is there a base based on this agenda?" - it keeps changing, but no. No idea why you've chosen your particular destinations but your agenda reads like bumpers on a pinball machine. You are aiming for a Michelin tasting menu on a Neapolitan pasta timeframe. Sometimes the Neopolitan pasta, if cooked properly, can be much more enjoyable.

Orvieto and Civita Di Bagnoregio is a fantastic day.