Visiting with young kids in italy

Italians are typically very good with kids. Children are well tolerated and often fussed over. I lost count of the number of times my kids were kissed, had their hair tousled etc. Never experienced any hushing or told to be quiet either with my kids or anyone elses, your experience doesn't sound like the norm.

Are my kids really loud??

If it is happening in different/multiple places with different people........ that may be a message

My experience is that Italians as a whole - everybody is different of course - are very tolerant of children. If your children are triggering so much comment they must be well beyond what would be expected. Parents often don't hear or see what others do, so yes, I'm afraid, probably your kids are quite distracting. Running from side to side in the train and probably not silently are likely quite distracting for people trying to enjoy a quiet trip or book, or get work done.

Since it happened in different places with different people I agree that that is likely a sign.

I hope everyone replying here are parents. I appreciate all the comments and I realize that they have been loud. But how do you make 2.5 yr old r sit quietly for 40 mins(at restaurant before meal) to 1 hr(train ride)? I need some ideas. We don’t use gadgets and try to do alternative things. So, some suggestions would be helpful.

Really? Where in Italy? My kids are tweens now so older than yours, but not so old that I don't remember the loud toddler stage. Germany was super quiet, France too, but I remember breathing a sigh of relief when entering Italy because it was OK to be more loud. Not screaming, but just the normal volume was higher. Heck, I felt this last year because my 10 year old is a LOUD TALKER for European volumes. He's polite and sits well, his voice is just...meant for the stage LOL. We had to keep reminding him to use a quiet voice in Austria, he tried but it was hard. In Venice he was perfectly normal.
And when they were younger Italians just loved doting on them.

Anyway, it might depend on what kind of restaurants. At an outdoor cafe, sitting and talking at a normal volume is fine. Not yelling, but playing games while seated, laughing - normal things. Maybe if you are trying to go to super formal places you could run into trouble. When kids are that little, I liked to stick to cafes and more casual places.If you are going to casual restaurants, I don't know what to tell you. I never had, nor saw, any difficulty with the kind of thing you are describing. I don't know if you've had really bad luck or if your definition of normal talking and laughing is different than mine. Picture a decent but not super-fancy restaurant in the US. Not a chain like Olive Garden, but more of a smaller place. If they are fine there they should be fine in Italy.

As for what to do, I always bring activities. Coloring or drawing paper. Activity books for the 5 year old (simple mazes, match the picture, ABC games). Some sort of quiet toy for the younger one (maybe a doll or animal figure). On the train if it's a long ride, a movie on the ipad is good. Were you in first class? That could definitely be a problem - people who pay for first want quiet to work. In second class talking normally is expected.

Are your kids crying or fussing or screaming, or just talking? Are they throwing things, fighting, running around, or doing anything else disruptive to others? If they really are just talking, then you either have bad luck and it will get better soon, or you need to pick your places better (not fancy restaurants, second class trains).

I want to clarify that my kids are in no way, shape, or form perfectly behaved angels. We had to take them out of restaurants for tantrums several times in the younger stages. They can be kind of loud, they are active boys. We really didn't have this trouble in Italy, over 4 trips of up to 2 weeks each, so I'm very curious about where in Italy.

Also, were the people correcting you Italian? The one incident we had like this was a French tourist who didn't like the kids (mine and multiple others) playing soccer in the square. The restaurant owner yelled at the French lady and said his kids were playing there too and it was the way things were done there.

I'm 7 months away from Italy trip with my similar aged set of kids. I'm coming at this as a
super empathetic fellow parent, and I'm sorry, you sound stressed. I would be, too. I'll share some questions and experience that'll maybe help?

First question, were you by chance, accidentally in a business / quiet car on the train? First class? If yes, especially with a quiet car, I could absolutely understand that reaction from a fellow passenger. Was it a business route during rush hour? If not in a quiet car, it is one of two scenarios - you got a cranky person and/or your kids were not behaving appropriately for the setting...and someone was direct with you about it. Were the kids passing the knees of other passengers or grabbing / shaking a shared table in their route to move across the aisles? Were they grabbing someone else's seat? As a cardinal rule, I try to not let my kids (or myself) physically impact anyone else - no touching, jostling, kicking, etc.
Why were they crossing the aisle? Perhaps seats could be offered to be exchanged?

Second, in the restaurant, what exactly was going on? Were the kids running around a table (table games) even if it was your table? What kind of restaurant? Were they acting the same as they would at home at a restaurant? What were the adults at your table doing before you were screamed at? Were you all being loud (and maybe the issue was really...everyone...and not just the kids)?

Were the kids playing with each other ? I have found that dramatically ups the noise factor and happy noise can be just as loud (and easier for me as a parent to tune out....oh, they're not beating each other! It's great and fine! Everyone loves happy kids! Decibels inch upward!! Lol!) I've got one kid who is super polite and quiet (the 5 year old) and the other one...the 3ish year old....well...is learning. Like, I could take him to the fanciest place and not be concerned. The 3year old....is learning. But, they influence each other terribly. They play famously or...do not...so we separate them so the adults are in between them at restaurants (and each adult takes a kid to entertain or talk to or engage) to minimize chaos opportunity. That, coupled with tricks - we use snacks, crayons, stickers, a notebook, and/or a small figure or two from their toy box- my husband and I can usually have a drink and semi-enjoy the meal and even speak to each other and the kids. So hard at the end of the day when everyone is hangry.

Your kids might have been inappropriate in the situation and they might not have....or you may have been around cranky people...we will never know. :) It sounds like your kids were disturbing other people in different situations- right or wrong. Kids are people too - we can't lock them away until they're adults - they'd never learn! Only you can possibly know - was it because the kids were in a setting inappropriate for them/kid behavior (ie, a quiet or business car on the train or a restaurant where the noise level was much lower than the kids)? Was someone just cranky? Was it because the kids were truly loud and the adults were being perceived as not managing the kids? I've found people have endless sympathy and patience for people actively managing their kids - but <zero for people that check out and inflict their/my kids' untamed noise (that we've learned to tune out!) on everyone else. If you don't have your normal tricks available, buy a few small items to entertain/occupy them or consider a different schedule or different approach to the situation. Picnic lavishly at your hotel? If buying, I recommend stickers and paper or a small (like 3-5 pieces) set of magnetic blocks like Tegu or a few Legos.

Whatever you do, take a minute to reflect on the events that have you stressed, and then leave them where they are - in the past. Carry on with a memorable trip - hope you have a great time!! And please trip report! So few with young kids that do!

We don’t use gadgets and try to do alternative things

Not sure what you mean by gadgets, but it shouldn't be that hard to keep kids occupied for less than an hour. Coloring book and crayons (or markers) usually keep kids entertained when bored. Any favorite games they like to play that come in travel sized versions are also good. You don't need electronic gadgets if that's what you mean. Also if they are antsy waiting for dinner maybe it's because they are too hungry, maybe give them a little snack about an hour before you get to the restaurant - nothing big, just enough to tide them over. Even if you don't allow eating between meals at home, it's different when you're traveling and might be a treat for them and it can be something healthy.

One thing I noticed about kids in most European countries is that they were very well behaved when out for dinner, or in other public places. Yes, they love kids in Italy and other countries and fawn over them, but the only kids I saw acting out at meal times were tourists, not sure if they were American or Canadian but definitely speaking English, screaming and being rowdy. That does not have to be the normal behavior for children anywhere.

I also would add that my kids will wait that amount of time you're describing....if they are entertained/distracted by adults, small toys or coloring/ stickers AND are not starving. I will give them a glass of milk and possibly cheerios or crackers or cheese or something to eat while we are waiting. If they're hungry, all bets are off.

Go progressive in your strategy - start by talking and looking around the restaurant. Then...when that gets boring, go to restroom and wash hands. Next, give trick 1, then trick 2, etc. We hardly ever give the kids a (silenced) phone or tablet in a restaurant- it's my last resort before actually leaving the restaurant...but it's my final trick of last resort (usually at dessert or check time). Whatever it takes to preserve sanity.

Now, they do get an (silenced/headphone) phone or iPad with ABC Mouse, picture ebooks, some misc movies I've selected, etc., regularly when we are transiting and other tricks, toys, books, people/scenery watching and talking have gone out the window. They're constrained in a space with no choice - for others or them!

Good luck!

One thing I noticed about kids in most European countries is that they were very well behaved when out for dinner, or in other public places. Yes, they love kids in Italy and other countries and fawn over them, but the only kids I saw acting out at meal times were tourists, not sure if they were American or Canadian but definitely speaking English, screaming and being rowdy. That does not have to be the normal behavior for children anywhere.

One reason for this in general (not related to the OP) is that the European kids may have been going to these types of restaurants for their whole lives. So they learn how to behave and sit for long meals, it's their norm. Many American kids just don't learn this. If most of their meals are eaten quickly at home or at fast food (or fast sit-down like Applebees) restaurants, then they just don't know how to handle a longer sitting. And the parents haven't learned how to help the kids, either.

SO - my advice to parents is to try to let the kids experience longer meals/nicer restaurants at home before you go. Multiple times - so they kind of know what to expect, and so that the parents know how their kids will act. Pick a nice local restaurant (not formal, but not a chain in a mall), take the kids for an early dinner. 5PM on a Sunday is not busy and you won't be disturbing date-night couples or business meetings. Or do it at brunch at the same type of place - brunch is pretty laid back. Explain to older kids the expectations, bring coloring/stickers/quiet games like tic-tac-toe (all depending on ages), and just go for it. Consider it a trip expense if the cost worries you - it's an investment in making your expensive European vacation enjoyable!
I also did the same for art museums, but that's more for older kids not 3 year olds!

You never posted your final itinerary, but if you still intend on a visit to Florence, this restaurant has a kid friendly play area. This does not mean you simply let them wander, but keep a close eye on them and correct them if necessary.

http://www.fuocomatto.it

Google kid friendly restaurants for the towns you'll be going to. In both Tuscany and the other places you mentioned, it's easy to find places with indoor and outdoor play areas.

I've traveled all over Italy in the past 15 years with my grandaughter, from the time she was the age of your youngest. Only seeing the this type of display you're referencing on 3-4 times.

Doing so will make your trip much more enjoyable.

You might think about take out some of the time. It would reduce your stress. We did it with a family group (no young children though) because did not want to spend every evening with a two hour meal.
Other ideas I have seen is to eat main meal at noon when people are fresher.

my remark wont be so long, but I do understand this issue so well. When we went to Italy and our kids got restless we took turns walking them outside, playing away from the crowd etc. Having said that I do think that some adults can be quite loud too especially on their on their phones at the table. but what can be done really. I have to agree that Italians usually are very understanding when it comes to kids

I hope your trip is going better - it sounds like it has been stressful so far.

Perhaps if you post your itinerary, people could make suggestions for restaurants and/or activities that are child friendly and would engage even your younger child. I am thinking of activities like funiculars, castles, parks with playgrounds, gardens that are cool in hot weather, local toy stores with novel toys and figures, etc.

Clear expectations before dinner and travel help. Stating expectations in the positive ("In this restaurant we walk.") is more effective than stating them in the negative ("No running"). Practice using "walking feet" and praise them when they do. "I like the way you used your walking feet when ...."

Teach your children about different voice levels. You can use numbers (Level 1, 2, 3 voice) or descriptive words (whisper voice, dinner table voice, playground voice, etc.). Give them models and ask them to demonstrate they understand. Make it a game - "Simon says count to 10 in a whisper voice", "Simon says tell me your name in a playground voice." Then use the same language (Voice level 2, or table voice) when giving them directions in a restaurant or on a train. If people are sleeping or reading a Level 1/whisper voice might be appropriate.

Try and get seat assignments on trains so that you have 4 seats around a table if possible. If that is not possible and the moving around is due to one child having the "better" seat, tell them that after x minutes they will change seats and set the timer on your phone. Give them things to look for on the train ride - a barn, a church,a river, a blue truck. Make it a bingo or tic tac toe game or just count how many items they found.

Make expected behavior a game. "Let's see how long everyone can talk in a whisper voice." Then give paper and a marker and let them give themselves points (dots, stars, hash marks). The number of points can be arbitrary - make it as big as they can count. Then it will keep them busy making and counting their marks.

I hope the rest of your trip goes smoothly.