Visiting Italy

I am sorry you are not enjoying your trip.

Did you think it would not be crowded?

I think that after the pandemic people stopped 'waiting' and started travelling. Hence, Italy is very crowded, all the time. I'm currently planning my 22nd visit. So, I've done all the major sites and major cities. What I learned a few years ago (post-pandemic) is to 'turn left at the next street or alley if I see a crowd of tourists coming towards me or catching up from behind. I've learned to enjoy getting lost, discovering very interesting neighborhoods, seeing relics of centuries long gone that weren't on the RS 'must do' list. I suspect, from your comments, this is your first trip. Sorry that it isn't turning out more enjoyable. Maybe spend a little time sitting on a piazza with a gelato or an aperatif, and just enjoy being there. Spend longer at dinner especially where there is no menu in English. Siena has lots of opportunities to do just that!

Sorry to hear this, truly. You started with the two bigger cities - I believe Bologna and definitely Siena will be smaller and hopefully less crowded. As an introvert, I find it helpful to go out and walk by myself, just 180 degrees from the crowded place you are, until I reach a quiet piazza or something. Perhaps you would be able to do that, and recharge yourself. Some of my best vacation memories are those quiet moments alone, in a setting I didn't plan but just happened upon.

My husband and I also find that being together on vacation 24/7 can be draining, and you and your wife may find the same, if in the day-to-day you spend time apart doing your own things. Sending you my hopes that you can find some peaceful and relaxing moments.

Part of it is the walking. I don't mind walking. I've done the Camino Frances and Portuguese. But walking in very crowded environment I am finding not relaxing. I expected some solemnity at the Vatican but the elbow to elbow crowd detracted from what it has to offer. And that statement applies to pretty much everywhere we have gone - pantheon, Colleseum, Forum, Duomo, David. And I expect to everywhere else we will be going. I also find the food unimpressive. Most likely because I cook fairly well. In fact, after eating out a few times, I decided to cook dinner at our Airbnb. We both liked what I prepared much better.

Crowds are tiring and impact the quality of our vacation. This is why I love traveling off-season when airfare is less with fewer crowds visiting the sights.
Sorry to hear you’re having a hard time finding good dining options. Sounds like you need to go where the locals eat and not patronize the restaurants where the tourists eat.

It's regrettable that you are not enjoying your trip. Apparently your wife doesnt share your opinion. Perhaps this can be a lesson learned, and something you can mutually work to avoid on future trips.

If you are still in Florence, I suggest escaping for a few hours and maybe for dinner to somewhere quieter nearby like the hill town of Fiesole. I was there ages ago so I don't know how crowded Fiesole gets these days. Fortunately, Bologna doesn't have any mega sites that get the crowds like Rome and Florence. Even when the central piazzas are crowded, I found museums and churches in Bologna rather empty. You might ask at you hotel wherever you are staying for suggestions for escaping the crowds.

We have gone to other places in the Mediterranean where crowds are nothing like these. And yes, that's what I expected. Not elbow to elbow. We have visited local eateries too. Food was ok. Like I mentioned, I have done the Camino Frances and Portuguese so I'm exposed to EU culture. But the Italian cities we've been to so far are just nuts. My next trip will be another Camino which I enjoy better.

I was just going to reassure you that Bologna will not be as crowded. We were there last June which I would think would be busier than April and never found the crowds oppressive. We were in Rome in 2023 and was amazed by the crowds. No comparison.

Here is my trip report. We went to Bologna last. We did a number of things we really enjoyed so you might skip down to that part and see if anything speaks to you.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/northern-italy-trip-report-venice-padua-dolomites-and-bologna

Do daytrips, get out of town.

Go out at about 6:30am or 7:00am, walk around for two or three hours and you’ll barely see anyone out there. Cleaning crews, delivery people, people on their way to work, occasional tourist, but it’ll be mostly empty early on and relatively empty after 8:00am or so. Then go to the hotel for breakfast and a shower. I like to take pictures and don’t like people in them, and that’s what I sometimes do and it works for me.

Stayed in Rome for 4 days visiting the usual attractions. Now in
Florence doing the same thing

Those 'usual attractions' are the most-visited thus usually the most mobbed. If you are willing to balance those 'usual attractions" with others which are less visited, you can find some breathing room. That usually involves staying enough days in a popular destination city to make that sort of exploration work.

Consider this? You've apparently done the Top 5 in Rome and Florence so come back and plan to visit the many wonderful places in both that are not overrun by the tourist crowd. They do exist!

Our last trip to Italy was RS Village Italy last year. We were there during major holidays and the death of the pope. Most of the places we visited were not that busy. Padua, Lucca, Levanto.

Unfortunately, your trip included the most popular cities and one of the most busy time of year, Easter.

Please don’t give up on Italy. We have also been to Aosta, no tourists. Lovely town. Noli, on the coast. Very quiet.

There are some great contributors on this forum that can direct you to much less hectic destinations.

Google Caserta. We spent 4 days there last year and pretty darn quiet and right on the train line from Roma to Napoli! It was recommended by a friend and we had never heard of it. Very few Americans, no crowds and the palace is incredible.

Oh, and by the way, I always plan everything! But with input from my husband.

Thank you for all your responses. In conclusion, I realized this is not quite my idea of enjoying a place. Being with a mob once or twice maybe ok but constantly is tiring. It's not a good first impression of a place. There are 2 countries in the EU so far that we have visited for extended periods that I really enjoy which I will not mention. In fact, we stayed an entire month in one and went back again for several days. Thanks again.

I hope your next destination is more to your liking. So many amazing places to see!

hey hey frodtog
thanks for your impressions of the crowds, packed like sardines, grumpy/undesirable attitudes of many that i really think they weren't expecting. so many thousands & thousands traveling nowdays to same places everyone else is going. many want smaller towns/villages that may become so crowded that will show up on social media/instagram/tiktok for photo shots to say i've been there onto the next stop.
been to many of the "must sees", long lines & times. we do something else. love roaming the markets.
eatingarounditaly.com favorite markets in florence
mercatocentrale.it click artisans, scroll over names/faces to see what they offer. we stopped to have a glass of wine & salami
visittuscany.com pistoia
take a short train ride and roam the town/village. street art/murals, small shops/restaurants/bakeries, thermal baths, plants & flowers away from the crowds, have lunch.
paintandwineflorence.it
something fun to do for two of you, take home a souvenir, drink some wine, in a studio away from all.
educated-traveller.com wine windows of florence
sit have a glass of wine or food passed through windows, look at map. about 6 years ago people were remodeling them, wasn't open yet but we hailed down 2 pedicabs that took us all around florence, past windows, center by carousel and up to santo spirito for lunch (pizza & pasta). he was studying opera and sang to us during our private tour for 4 of us. i'm sure with so many changes it would be lucky he's still around. we walked back down across ponte vecchio stopping for gelato, buying wine for our own little party at our apartment.
arnorivercruise.com
cruise down the arno river with a drink.
went down some small alleys away from "tourist central" found hole in the wall mom & pops restaurants, sat down quickly and had osso buco, bolognese pasta was so yummy, dessert was tiramisu and of course pastry shops were my downfall
these are my own opinions & thoughts that i enjoyed, sat at a bar/cafe outside with bottle of wine, chacuterie board and people watched in the piazzas. do enjoy your time and relax. have fun
aloha

It’s probably too late to pivot your reservations now, but if possible, change your Bologna & Siena to Ferrara and Torino. Both of those aren’t crowded and have plenty to do. The food at Ferrara is amazing!

I agree with your impression of Florence. It’s become so crowded….for a good reason, of course, but I tend to avoid it now.

Trust me, we know how to find restaurants where locals go. But even those are crowded. And the is so-so. The best food I've had is what I cooked in our apartment using local ingredients. I just think Italy is over saturated with tourists, Nothing is pristine anymore. If we do go back I will focus on southern Italy hoping less crowded and better food.

We have visited Italy 7 or 8 times and yes for decades it is crowded.
Now when we go, we take group tours. The tour company books all the sites and handles all the logistics. We did a great tour of Tuscany and Umbria last year and it was great.

Yes, we had large crowds at some places like Florence, Siena and Assisi, but it all worked out very well.
If you do a trip on your own, you have to plan carefully, book your main sites and plan your logistics carefully.
Just because it is crowded, doesn't mean that you shouldn't go there.

I just think Italy is over saturated with tourists, Nothing is
pristine anymore.

Well, you're adding your own bulk to those crowds, right? The same reasons you've traveled to the two busy cities you've just visited are the same reasons pretty much everyone else goes. :O).

We all have different tolerances when it comes to crowds, as evidenced by your wife being less bothered by them. I'm not sure what 'pristine' means in your book.. Can you explain what you'd expected in that regard?

Nobody likes crowds. I totally get it. I don’t particularly love Rome primarily for that reason.

But you're a seasoned traveler, so I have to wonder from your tone and the idea that you just can't find decent food in Italy, if some part of this is just your personal frame of mind? I'm not judging or scolding. I've been on trips where I realized I was kinda depressed/down and my overall personal mood was creating a lens that made everything less good. And conversely, I've laughed off vacation struggles when my mood was upbeat.

Just a thought. It may be absolutely off base, but I wanted to throw it out there. I hope things go better down the road.

“… my wife did the planning”

There’s one of the factors. The person who does the planning has “skin-in-the-game” and has been anticipating the sites and activities she’s found while doing all of the research for you. I hope your miserable mood isn’t rubbing off on her, too.

I cook a lot at home, and I’ve taken a lot of cooking classes during trips to Italy. Yes, I can make a fantastic authentic Italian meal at home. But I also know how to find a great Italian restaurant and order only the local food in season. If you’re anywhere near a tourist site, walk farther before looking at options.

I read once that you usually have the trip “you want to have”. If you think your next two cities will be special & exciting, it likely will occur. On the other hand, if you think you won’t enjoy them, that will probably sadly be fulfilled.

Thank you for your perspective. I understand what you mean. I had to check myself too. But I'm comparing this experience with visits to Camino towns and cities, plus going to places like Lisbon, Porto, Faro, Seville and even Paris. There is only city along the Camino Frances that I did not like due to the crowd. Leon, SP. The daily crowd Ormond is wearing me down in the cities in Italy. When we visited Paris on Oct 2022 I did not find it crowded. Even around the Eifel. We stayed in the 6th Arrondissement. So, no. The answer to your question is it's nothing personal. I believe these attractions are better enjoyed and appreciated with less people and not a mob.

I'll cheerfully agree that some things would be a lot more pleasant with fewer humans to contend with! We skipped a repeat of the Vatican Museums altogether on the last go-around: THAT was really the only size of crowd I personally had issues dealing with. Oh, and crossing Ponte Vecchio. OOF!

Jean does have a point that maybe the trip you would have planned versus your Other Half may have made a difference? Whatever the case, I'm sorry that you're not enjoying the trip so far, and sincerely hope you find some joy in the second part of the adventure!

It feels to me that you’re comparing apples and oranges. You can’t compare the crowds in the most popular cities in Italy during the Easter holidays to Paris in October 2022 in the aftermath of the pandemic. Travel has picked up immensely since the pandemic ended. Just a few days ago another member posted about how crowded Paris is right now.
I’m sorry you’re not enjoying your trip, but remember you’re part of the crowd as well.

Look at it however you want but nothing changes the fact that the crowd in those venues are insane. That is mainly what I'm pointing out. To me, it lessens the quality of what they are presenting in addition to making the experience insane.

Well, if you don't like crowds you don't go to Times Square on New Year's Eve.

Rome and Florence are the most visited cities in Italy along with Venice, and among the top visited cities in the world. Florence and Venice in particular are even very small (at least the historical center), so the 10 million visitors that swarm those cities every year, are all concentrated in a couple of square miles.

There are areas of Florence, even in the historical center, that are less crowded, but obviously the most famous sights are heavily visited in April. I suggest you head to the smaller towns near Florence on day trips. Those will not be crowded. Siena and Bologna should be a bit better.

If you were disappointed by the food, maybe it's because you went to some tourist trap restaurant, instead of the many good ones you can find. Over the years many have been suggested also in this forum.

I understand everything you've said. I live in a big city and am used to crowds. That being said, I travel far less these days because I just cannot stand the crowds. I went to Glacier National Park this summer thinking it would be beautiful and a place to find some solitude. It turned out to be an overcrowded nightmare. I am sorry you're not having a great trip. Some places just don't vibe with some people and that's okay.

I'm sorry you're having a bad time. If your wife is enjoying it, the two of you may need to take separate vacations in the future.

So, your wife planned this beautiful Italian trip, and you feel like a third wheel because you’re not enjoying yourself and the food is meh. I can cook a better meal myself and I did so, in our Airbnb. Honestly, reading this “topic” reeks of just wanting clicks. I’m married to a northern Italian, from Lecco; municipality, not city, we’ve been traveling to Italy for 26 years, and in all that time, also living in Italy during that 26 years, I’ve only had a bad meal once. It was in Puglia, in Gallipoli. I’ve eaten in and visited all of the cities in on your list, some more than 2 or 3 times and I can tell you a few things about tourism in Italy.
1) Never visit during major holidays, and, lord knows, Italy has plenty of those
2) avoid tourism heavy cities in hot weather.
3) when planning a trip, look locally, because guides will always guide you to tourism heavy places, restaurants included, even if you THINK it’s a local place. Ask me how I know. Wife still mentions it occasionally even though it happened 25 years ago
So, to recap, I’m an American married to a northern Italian. I make a better risotto alla milanese than her and her whole family. ( ask me how I know). So I know food. I know Italian cities. I know how to navigate and to know when a restaurant is truly local. But mediocre food? I find that implausible.

To respond to the comments about planning, I don't think it matters whether I or my wife planned it. I could have duplicated her plans just the same. This our first time in italy. And this is supposed to be low season. But nothing prepared us for the insane crowd. I could just imagine what it's like at peak season. With regards to food, I will admit it is difficult to impress me because I can confidentiality say I cook very well. Thank you all for your perspective.

April hasn’t been “low season” for years

“ And this is supposed to be low season. But nothing prepared us for the insane crowd. I could just imagine what it's like at peak season.”

Who told you it’s low season? It’s not. It’s the Easter holidays, it’s the peak of peak season.

This is such a sad thread. It's difficult to comprehend how the OP can't find suitable restaurants in such big cities, and has felt the need to prepare meals in his apartment. The locals would typically eat out from around 8pm, so why not start a little earlier to get ahead of the throng?

What is sad about liking my own cooking?

The biggest issue here seems to be that the OP somehow thought they were traveling in the low season, when in reality they’re visiting in the busiest time of year. Like Roberto wrote above; “if you don't like crowds you don't go to Times Square on New Year's Eve”.
The OP went to Italy expecting crowd levels of Time Square on a cold February morning, but was faced with Times Square NYE crowd levels. I can fully understand that this was an unpleasant surprise.

The OP is certainly not the only one with the mistaken idea that this time of year is off-peak. Several members have recently posted about crowds Paris and Rome in what they thought was low season. It makes me wonder from where people got the mistaken idea that this is low season.

It makes me wonder from where people got the mistaken idea that this is low season.

You brought up an interesting point.
In Italy "the season" begins on Easter Monday and the crowds get worse as you get closer to April 25 and May 1. As far as I know, It's been this way since the 50s and it's pointed out in all guidebooks.

I wonder how many tourists actually check things like sport events, fairs and bank holydays when planning a journey abroad. Years ago I was in NYC during the US open, I totally ignored the existence of the tournament and I couldn't find a decent place to sleep. Unlike the internet, guidebooks reply to questions tourists do not ask.

What is sad about liking my own cooking?

Don't you say “Self praise is no recommendation”? You may be rightfully proud of your Chicken Parm, but this does not necessarily mean that your opinion about Italian restaurants means much.

This is interesting. I just spent Easter week in Sicily. We had a brilliant time, it wasn't too crowded (and we were in popular areas), and all the food we ate was amazing. I find it hard to believe you can't find food better than your own cooking in Italy. Honestly even some of the very touristy places can have very good food. I hope you have better luck on the rest of your trip. The thing to keep in mind is popular things are popular for a reason, and if you want to see them so do many other people.

Defending OP's 'home cooking': I do the same when traveling through Italy.

The ingredients are fantastic, and when I'm in a rush to explore, I don't necessarily want to sit down at a restaurant. So I'll grab some things from a local market or store and either put together a quick meal at my accommodation or enjoy a picnic somewhere scenic.

As for crowds, they can be annoying, but every city has areas away from the tourist path: and those are often well worth exploring.

As a partial answer to the questions asking where tourists might get the idea that April is a low season and "don't tourists bother to check," I played with a couple very quick Google searches. The AI overview first told me that April is shoulder season in Rome and Florence with a pleasant mix of warming weather and only moderate crowds. Reading further down in the same response, it also said it was a very popular time and to expect significant crowds especially around Easter. But if I thought to ask if Easter has peak crowds in Rome and Florence, it tells me definitely yes. Outdated and misleading travel advice is much easier to find than better advice; you almost have to know or strongly suspect the better answer before you formulate the question.

Just a reminder that it’s still legal not to love Rome.

I say this as someone with a love/hate relationship with the city.

For years we have traveled to Italy in the fall, late September. Last fall we decided that we would never visit Italy in September again because of crowds. The former shoulder seasons have become the prime travel seasons because of the heat of summer and publicity of the myth that cities are less visited then.

We are looking at the brief periods before the Christmas holiday season and the weeks between the New Year and Carnivale for future travel to our favorite spots in Italy.