Visa questions for Italy

I hope the Schengen experts see your question---they may think it has to do with credit cards rather than immigration visas. I have no personal experience with Schengen retuirements, but my understanding is that without a visa of some type, one is strictly limited to 90 days in the entire Schengen zone. One must then leave, and cannot return until another 90 days pass. They could spend the second 3 months in Croatia, Ireland, or the UK, but that may not be what they want.

Thanks for the reply. They are actually considering the UK, and I have suggested to them Croatia, as well. We'll see what happens. The sabbatical is only for 6 months, so if they must leave for three months, then they'll leave and not return afterward.
Given their level of frustration with Italian bureaucracy now, before they've even entered the country, I think 3 months will be plenty for them. They might even go a little crazy after 2 months there. It's not for the faint of heart. And the documents I've seen with rules about visas are just about as confusing and lengthy as the ones I've seen for credit cards. ;-) Thanks again.

Your friend needs a Type D visa (also called "long stay" or "national" visa), issued by Italy. Without a Type D visa, she is limited to a stay of 90 days in any 180-day period in the Schengen zone. In the absence of a Type D visa, once she hits 90 days, she would have to leave the Schengen zone for 90 days before she could return. Details are here: http://tinyurl.com/7ppptsl

Thanks for confirmation, Tom. I'll be sure to pass that info along to them. Much obliged.

Jennifer, Based on my understanding of the terms of the Schengen Accord: 1.) NO, applicants can NOT be in Italy while waiting for an extended stay Visa to be approved. The application must be approved while outside the country. 2.) Once the 90-day limit is reached, travellers MUST leave the Schengen zone for 90-days. Overstays can be subject to severe fines and/or deportation! Someone posted here a few months ago that his daughter overstayed by about five days and was fined €500! That means your friends must spend the last half of their trip in a country other than Italy (or any other within the Schengen zone). Have a look at THIS to see which countries are included. As I'm sure your friends have discovered, it would have been prudent to have dealt with this situation about a year prior to their trip. I've spoken with travellers who have obtained the Italian Visa, and HUGE quantities of documentation was required, including marriage licenses, bank statements, etc. The process can take six months! Unless the Italian Consulate can expedite their application, I suspect they'll have to spend the last 3-months in either the U.K. or Ireland (however, those countries also have stringent rules for long stay - your friends should be prepared to prove "adequate means" to support themselves during their stay). As your friends already have flights booked, my suggestion would be to go for Italy for 3-months and then evaluate which country to spend the last 3-months in. Good luck to them!

Thanks--I'll definitely be highlighting the punitive aspect for them. Nothing says "get the heck out" like a 500 euro fine. Ouch!

...And just to add to the mess, within the Visa process, your friends would need to show a means of support or financial security to the satisfaction of the authorities, and many times things like healthcare coverage, background checks, or other requirements. I would venture that very few people actually wind up using that process or type of Visa, most Americans living in Europe probably fall into the category of Retired (they like people who don't work but bring money to live), Military or family of, Working for an American/International Company, or on a student Visa. Given the hassle, and no driving need that the entire time be in Italy, consider other options for 90 days. Incidently, it need not be just 90 days in Italy then 90 days in a non-Schengen country, they could do a month in Italy, then to Croatia for two months, then back to Italy, maybe to the UK for a Month, winding up in Italy again before heading home. As long as in the 180 days, they are in Italy or a Schengen country for no more than 90 total, they are good.

Some of this is not making a lot of sense. A sabbatical, assuming it is an academic sabbatical, is not suppose to be just a vacation. Generally involves some type of study, research, teaching, exchange, etc., Just what is the purpose of this sabbatical? How can a smart person plan a six month trip and overlook such a major issue? My limited experience with a student vise for a study abroad program in Spain. It took nearly six weeks with a bunch of financial/medical paper work and the passport have to be sent with the application which precludes waiting in country for the visa. Since they are in New York I would personally start sleeping at the Italian consulate until I had what I needed.

Increasingly, the term "sabbatical" is being used in the non-academic world to mean an extended paid absence from work, usually after the completion of a certain number of years with the same employer. Typically they vary in length from three months to six months, at least according to what I've seen. And you can do whatever the heck you want during that time. I'm assuming that's what Jennifer is talking about.

That is, indeed, the type of sabbatical I'm talking about, though she is an academic. It's basically a much deserved personal leave. Thanks, Michael. Though, I think she does plan to be doing some writing of her own while she's there, an article or book chapter, or the like. She doesn't need to be in Italy for that, though. She had hoped to spend about 3 - 5 days with some expert in her field who was going to show her how to do a certain type of data analysis (from her own already-collected data), but that was not the main purpose of her trip, and she doesn't plan to do that anymore, since it complicates matters. She mostly needs a break from academia. Unfortunately, I don't think camping at the consulate is an option for them, since they have kids. Also, while I'm in NYC, they aren't. The consulate they would deal with is in Philly, and even that is a five hour drive from where they live. They have been planning the trip for about three years, saving money, getting approval for her leave of absence, preparing the kids, studying Italian. I think they just didn't have any experience with this process, since they haven't ever done this before, and they also found a lot of confusing and conflicting info online.
I think the plan now is 90 days in Italy, then on to some other non-schengen zone country, possibly Croatia. I think it will be a good experience in the end, for them and their kids. And a learning experience about the visa process, for sure. And I can vouch that she is quite smart, too. ;-) Thanks all for your input. Much appreciated!

Jennifer Are they aware that under Schengen they don't need to do the countries in discrete blocks? In other words, the rule is no more than 90 days in any 180 cumulatively throughout all Schengen countries. So 2 weeks in France, 2 weeks in the UK, 2 months in Italy, 2 weeks in Croatia, 2 weeks in Austria = only 3 months in Schengen over 4 months.... and no paperwork. Otherwise, if they will go over 90 in 180 they need the paper visa and all the fun involved, mentioned earlier.

If it's any consulation, getting visas for many European countries is reportedly quite difficult and time consuming. And it requires extensive paperwork and documentation. Since 9/11, the US has made it very difficult to get a visa here, so some countries are not motivated to make it easy for US citizens. No one will knock on their door on day 91, but they do risk substaintial fines and an immediate deportation (at their expense) if caught. Some have reportedly been caught and fined at the airport leaving for home. If they do spend time in the UK or Croatia, they should make sure their passport is stamped or that they have hotel receipts to show their time out of Schengen.

" And I can vouch that she is quite smart, too. " But not too street smart. She better get to the Philly location in person and soon to avoid some major problems. Plan on two days- even the Philly office functions in Italian style! Been there, done that.

There's better news today for them. Perhaps by chance, they reached someone on the phone who gave them a phone number to someone else who gave them a phone number to someone else who . . . you get the idea . . . landing finally and miraculously at the actual phone number of the person who had been emailing them curt and unhelpful replies to their inquiries about their visas' progress. Yes, they do operate just like in Italy. This worker was apparently miffed that someone on the Italian end of their correspondence (the person who would have been taking 3-5 days to teach my friend about a certain stat analysis) made a remark in their letter to the effect of "Why does our country always have to complicate life so much?" In an epic display of professionalism, this prompted the consulate worker to temporarily "lose" their passports and adopt the previously mentioned attitude. Sad, but true.
The woman at the consulate ranted for a bit to them on the phone, and after settling down and apparently feeling adequately heard, admitted to having read only a fragment of one of their explanatory letters, and gave them a clear answer on what they needed to do to move things forward, which they are now doing, and which appears relatively simple. SO, it's not over yet, but might have resolution soon. We're hopeful. What I find most astounding is that this person at the consulate would be at all surprised to have one of her countrymen question the wisdom of their infamously convoluted bureaucracy. Denial is a wondrous ego defense, indeed. Again, thanks all for your input. My friend appreciates it very much.