Vatician and Sistine Chapel

no, I'm afraid it is closed on that day.

Nigel is spot on: the museums/chapel are almost always closed on Sundays.
You may visit St Peter's basilica, however.

I'll throw out another suggestion, though? Make reservations for Galleria Borghese: it is a terrific collection in a fascinating building, and their crowd control is EXCELLENT. Honestly, I prefer it to being run all over at the Vatican!

Reservations are mandatory, and visits are for two hours: they clear the museum after each group before admitting the next. This would give you a look at some top-notch art and leave time for some other things as well.

Make your reservations here:

http://www.galleriaborghese.it/eng/galleriaBorghese.html

Thanks for the answers. I really appreciate your help.

We are considering getting off the Eurodam in Naples and taking the train to Rome and spending 2 days in Rome instead of one in Naples and one in Rome. That way we could see the Sistine Chapel on Saturday afternoon and maybe take an evening tour in Rome and see the Coliseum and Forum, etc on Sunday. We would need to get an Itinerary deviation from Holland America but I don't think that should be a problem. It just seems unreasonable to go to Rome and miss the Sistine Chapel. Will we miss much in Naples? Please help with suggestions.

Hi back -

It just seems unreasonable to go to Rome and miss the Sistine Chapel.

I think you'll get a range of opinions here, and none of them will be 'wrong!' It is, of course, at the tippytop of practically all must-do lists so it's understandable that first-timers would wish to see it. At the same time I've had the advantage of having done it both before and after restoration. While I'm not sorry that I did, there's any number of other attractions in Rome - like the Borghese - we've enjoyed more than the post-restoration experience. The museums (there are 4 miles of collections) have just become too crowded during high and shoulder season for us to enjoy comfortably. Also consider just how intense an interest you have in art? If art museums are not usually high on your list, then neither the chapel nor Borghese may be good choices for you/your group.

That said, if you still wish to do it, I'd pre-book the 3-hour combo tour of the museums (includes the Sistine) and St Peter's through the Vatican website. Besides guiding you efficiently to the highlights, this allows access directly into the basilica through a passageway reserved for tours and saves time otherwise spent in a second security line for the church.

https://biglietteriamusei.vatican.va/musei/tickets/do?action=booking&codiceTipoVisita=74&step=2

This will involve quite a bit of walking so consider the stamina of everyone in your group when planning an evening walking tour of Rome on the same day? I might choose a self-guided tour from any number of guidebooks and just do what you can manage before dinner but Walks of Italy (highly recommended by Ricknicks) does have an evening tour that may be of interest:

https://www.walksofitaly.com/rome-tours/welcome-rome-walking-tours

They look to offer this tour on Sunday as well so it could be done after the Colosseum/Forum with a rest-up in between.

Colosseum/Palatine/Forum: all three are on the same ticket and those can be pre-ordered here:

http://www.coopculture.it/en/colosseo-e-shop.cfm

Note that you may add a € 5.00 tour of the Colosseum IN ADDITION to your general-entry ticket.

Will we miss much in Naples?

Naples' biggest draw - for most tourists, anyway - is not Naples at all but Pompeii: about 30-40 minutes away by local commuter train. Ercolano (Herculaneum) is also well-worth seeing (abt. 20 minutes by train) as is the Archeological Museum in Naples itself. Whether these are a hit or miss for you depends on your interest in Roman ruins and antiquities? With the little time that you have, I'd personally spend it all in Rome.

Kathy

Thank you so very much for your very thoughtful reply. I am happy to know that this plan is workable and not crazy. I really appreciate all the time an effort you took on our behalf. I am sure it will make our trip much more enjoyable. If you or others have more valuable information to share please do so.

Donna

You're welcome, Donna; happy to have helped! At the same time, if you have insights which may help us find good fits for your group (interests; ages of family; any specific mobility challenges to be aware of, etc) that would be helpful info as well.

Yes, if you want to do this, be sure to let the ship know you will not be returning after the day in Naples, but will return after the day in Rome.

Personally, I found the Sistine Chapel too mobbed and noisy and tense to appreciate (and this was in 1994). But I LOVED the Museum of Archeology in Naples, far more than Pompeii. So, as always, different people have different experiences, and you won't know how you feel about a place until you've gone and seen it for yourself.

I haven't been back to Rome since the Galleria Borghese opened, but I've yet to hear of anyone who didn't love it - and a big part of that, in addition to the high quality of the art itself, is the strict crowd control. Do be aware that you have to get there about 30 minutes before your entry time, or they will re-sell your ticket to someone else.

I note that there are 10 people in your group, making for difficulty with keeping together on public transportation, and needing multiple taxis, if used. You are considering independent travel in two of the most crowded and confusing cities of Europe. At least it will not be peak season. It may be difficult to get into better restaurants without an advance reservation. You don't describe your previous travel experience, so I am unable to warn you to think about whether your plans are wise or not.

You have to accept that you cannot see very much of Rome in one night and two days. The train from Naples can be just over an hour. I hope you can buy the ten Frecciarossa tickets at a 3-month in advance discount rate. That means if you miss the train you will have to buy ten full-price tickets on the next train.

Are you aware of how far it is to Civitavecchia, and what will happen if you are not there in time for the ship's departure at 8PM on Sunday?

Speaking only for myself, I would not make the Vatican my first priority. We did go there on our four-night first stay in Rome. Our first stop was the Roman Forum, followed by the Coliseum. We didn't get to the Borghese Gallery until our second visit to Rome.

Edit: The mention of filling a tour all by yourselves pointed out that your group size might actually make it economical to book a larger vehicle for a private transfer. You'd have to compare it to the cost of all the train tickets. Another (possible) advantage is that if you have the Cruise Director book the 12-passenger bus for you (and take HA's cut ... ) the chances are that the driver would coordinate your return with the ship. I mean, for example, finding out which berth the boat is at, or if ... shudder ... you're a few minutes late returning.

Donna, many of us on this forum have been very happy visiting the Vatican with Walks of Italy "Pristine Sistine" tour, which begins around 7:30 am, enters the Vatican Museum at 8:00 am, before the general public, goes directly to the Sistine Chapel when it is almost empty, and you can sit on the benches, allowing you to more easily look up at the ceiling, and you can actually see the beautiful floor. You can't do these things when the Chapel is packed shoulder to shoulder with hundreds of people. Then the tour continues in the Museum as the public arrives, then goes directly into St. Peter's through the "group door", finishing there around noon, leaving you the rest if the day for other sites. This is an infinitely better way to visit the Sistine Chapel than when it is mobbed. With 10 in your group, you could be your own private tour group. You might want to call the Walks of Italy US toll-free number, where their staff is excellent, explain your situation and dates, and see what they might come up with for you. (I realize this plan might not mesh with your cruise timetable.)

Oops. Just remembered that you have to be back in ship early Sunday night so the evening walk linked in the previous post could only be done on Saturday. Yes, it's very important that you head back to Civitavecchia in plenty to time to make your ship. As you'll need to check out of your hotel on Sunday AM - and probably have them hold your overnight bags - that will mean allowing additional time to return and collect them before heading off to the train.

Additional suggestion: leave absolutely everything that you do not need for your overnight in Rome on the ship. The lighter the load for this excursion, the more nimbly you'll be able to move on/off trains, in/out of the hotel, etc. In fact, if you really kept it to bare minimum - clean shirt rolled around 1 change socks/underwear; toothbrush; shared toothpaste; comb; wear same slacks/capris and shoes 2nd day - you could probably get away with just a modest-sized shoulder bag that would not have to be left at the hotel. "Modest" is key, though.

Bag checks are not available at some attractions, and some caution against bringing large, bulky backpacks and bags.

I have seen the Sistine chapel twice, once before it was restored and once after. It is shoulder to shoulder with people but so what? -- the thing you come to see is overhead. I lurked around the edges until someone got up from the bench and then sat and leaned back to really enjoy it. (It helped that on the last visit I had my 80 year old mother with me so people didn't push us aside to grab the bench space when it became empty) I think your plan is good; Naples has its charms but I would definitely head for the Vatican Museums (book tickets ahead of course). I would also plan to see the Colosseum and the Pantheon in historic Rome. St. Peters, The Sistine Chapel, the Colosseum and the Pantheon are IMHO the top 4 sights in Rome -- although there are dozens of others when you have more time.

I am going to recommend that you skip the Vatican/Sistine Chapel.

IMO, the time, effort and expense is not worth it. You have a large group. What are the ages of the family members? Train, hotel rooms, meals will cost you money and, more importantly, valuable time and energy.

I do not consider myself an experienced cruiser. We did a 7 day West Med cruise last year and we found it exhausting. Each day a different port, wake up early, breakfast, shore excursion, touring, back to ship, big dinner, evening entertainment, sleep and repeat. With only one day in each city (or country), you can only experience a small taste of each place. With cruising, you have to accept that there has to be compromises. There will be so many "must-sees" that you cannot possibly see Them all. The stuff you will see will still overwhelm you. By the end of the cruise, it will be a blur. There are so many other things to see and do in Rome other the Vatican/Sistine Chapel.

funpig I disagree. I have cruised about 10 times and it is up to the cruiser to decide what and when to get up and do stuff. It can be as relaxing or crazy as the cruiser wants to. I did a 13 day Alaska land and sea cruise last year and while busy I decided what to do. Same with Caribbean cruises. If its just this one time to see something they wanted to see by all means go for it. They can rest at home :) Happy traveling

Actually, a missing piece of this scenario is the ages of the 'family.' If there are a number of young children along, I might give some thought to skipping the v. museums. Will have to go on the assumption that this isn't the case.

Susanne, perhaps if we had more cruising experience or had already visited the cities before, we would have skipped some sites and relaxed more. But like most cruisers on our ship we tended to do and see as much as possible at each port, which is exhausting. All of the ports we visited except one were new to us so we wanted to experience as much as possible in the short time that we had. (Cannes was city that we had visited before. My wife and I planned to just pop into the town for the morning to check out the Film Festival and then return to the ship by lunch to relax the rest of the day on the ship. Unfortunately, the wind kicked up, broke an anchor and the tenders could not return us to the ship until late so we were stuck on shore.) Adding, organizing and carrying out a side trip and night stay in Rome in the middle of Donna's 12 day cruise will only add to the stress, imo. Plus they will miss out some great attractions in the Naples stop.

Thank you all so much for your valuable and thoughtful replies. You have assisted us so much already. We now have the Itinerary Deviation approval thru Holland America Cruises and have decided to move forward. Our group of 10 consists of six - 50-60 year olds and four - 25-35 year olds. Everyone is in good physical condition. This is the first trip to Europe for the 25-35s.

We would like as much advice as possible regarding rail tickets (that hopefully we can buy in advance online) to Rome from Naples the morning (9:30a-10a) of 10/15/16 and tickets from Rome to the Civitavecchia port late afternoon 10/16/16. We only speak English and it would be better (I think) if we have this arranged in advance (even if it costs a few euros more). We also want to leave Rome 10/16/16 probably by 4p-4:30p and get back to the port by 5:30p-6:00p as to be SURE we are back on our ship (Eurodam) before 7p (ship leaves at 8p).

We are thinking about using this little B and B - it is close to the termini rail station. https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g187791-d1030510-Reviews-Il_Bacio_delle_Stelle-Rome_Lazio.html Advice?

I think our best plan is to visit the Vatican /Sistine Chapel / St. Peter's Basilica on Saturday afternoon. Kathy can you recommend which tickets we should buy thru the Vatican website in order to get thru the crowds efficiently?

I really like the evening tour and think we would enjoy the one Kathy recommended. Any other recommendations?

My son is very interested in the Roman Colosseum and we definitely want a really good tour inside and outside. Kathy you advised a specific tour - will this meet our needs? We would like to spend 2-3 hours on Saturday morning seeing the Colosseum. We want to be sure we see the Colosseum, the Forum and Capitol Hill on Saturday before we take the train back to the Port about 4p or 4:30p that afternoon.

Does this plan sound workable? What are we missing that has to be included? This is probably as much as we can cover in 2 days and know what we saw ....correct?

We are all looking forward to this trip and thank everyone in advance for all of you insights and thoughts.

Thanks,
Donna Green

I made a mistake in paragraph 6. We plan to see the Vatican Saturday afternoon and take an evening tour Saturday evening and see the Colosseum and the Forum etc., on SUNDAY before returning to the ship. Sorry for the confusion.

Donna

Hi Donna,

You can buy your train tickets up to 120 days in advance and save a lot of money doing it that way. Use either of the two official services:

http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en

http://www.italotreno.it/en

If using trenitalia enter the Italian names of Napoli centrale and roma termini and roma termini and civitavecchia maritima. Be sure to enter the date of travel and change the time to when you wish to travel. For the cheapest tickets be sure you read the terms and conditions before purchase. Basically, you cannot change or get a refund for the cheapest tickets so pick your time wisely.

For Vatican museums tickets use the official website:

https://biglietteriamusei.vatican.va/musei/tickets/do?weblang=en&do

If you only want entry tickets just use the admission tickets tab. If you want a tour just pick the one that is the best for you. All tickets and tours allow you to bypass the long ticket lines. Be sure to choose your time wisely because if you're more than a few minutes late you lose the right to skip the lines.

I, personally, don't think you need 2-3 hours for the colosseum. It's not that big. You can book a guided tour for 5 euros by calling the official site. Entry tickets cost 12 euros each.

+39 06 399 67 700

If you wish to do the underground colosseum tour those tickets won't be available for October until mid September. This is an extremely popular tour so you'll need to book as soon as they become available.

There are hundreds of sites that you're missing that are worth seeing but with only 2 partial days you can't expect to see everything. You might want to make a list of other sites of interest to you and bring it just in case you find yourself with some extra time. I would suggest the pantheon and the trevi fountain.

Donna

Kathy can you recommend which tickets we should buy thru the Vatican
website in order to get thru the crowds efficiently?

Yes, I provided that link earlier as did Donna: make your reservations directly though the Vatican's website, and choose the three-hour combo tour of museums and basilica. This one:

https://biglietteriamusei.vatican.va/musei/tickets/do?action=booking&codiceTipoVisita=74&step=2

The crowds are what the crowds are, with or without a tour, so just be prepared for them. The bonus with this tour is that you'll be able to access the basilica directly from the Sistine without having to exit the museums. It'll save a nice chuck of time.

We would like to spend 2-3 hours on (Sunday) morning seeing the
Colosseum. We want to be sure we see the Colosseum, the Forum and
Capitol Hill on (Sunday) before we take the train back to the Port
about 4p or 4:30p that afternoon.

I would agree that the Colosseum does not need an in-depth tour taking several hours; go with the € 5.00 tour both Donna and I mentioned previously. Call for reservations, and I believe you may purchase your general entry tickets at the same time. The earliest tour in English is at 10:15. Ticket office hours:

+39 06 399 67 700, Monday-Friday 9-13 and 14-17, Saturday 9-14 (Rome time)

But another idea, since you wish to see the Colosseum, Forum and Palatine, is another Walks of Italy tour:

https://www.walksofitaly.com/rome-tours/roman-colosseum-tours

You'll cover all three in 3 hours, and the morning tour starts at 8:30. Your tickets will be covered in the price of the tour.