Vaccine? Time To Book? Where & When? Or Hold Your Horses?

Jay,
We have overseas trips booked for next July and October and should be able to get the vaccine prior to that time.

After careful consideration, we booked flights just last week for a late Sept. 2021 thru mid-Oct. 2021 trip to Bologna/Parma/Modena, Italy. British Airways already changed the projected flight times in an e-mail yesterday, so nothing’s certain yet, even exactly what time we’re supposed to depart/arrive, so we’ll see. Tongue in a mask-covered cheek in the meantime. Hope your travel plans are realized!

I’m not so optimistic about the vaccine, especially with the smaller than (we) expected order with Pfizer. And even if everyone in the US gets vaccinated, will other countries be vaccinated? So I’m impatiently waiting for 2022 and planning to wear/pack masks even then.

Well, we decided it was worth the risk to try early. We have tickets to Rome for just after Easter, basically for most of April.

However, before the naysayers jump in, we were able to get a great deal using Delta miles that are fully refundable and changeable with no fees (cost of the ticket will of course change). We are fully prepared to cancel, but at least have that placeholder in if things work out.

My rationale is that Airlines and Countries simply are not going to wait until 80% plus in all countries are vaccinated and infection rates are effectively zero. The push will be to start some travel and other economic activity. The vaccine news has only been good, despite the disagreement on number of doses ordered. I am expecting that to make my trip happen I will need to be diligent on getting the vaccine (Wife and I are an early group, but not priority), and we will likely need to do a testing regimen like Delta and Alitalia has implemented (some 3 tests, before, departing, and arrival).

We are also of course looking for a deal in August/September timeframe, will get those tickets, hoping one of the two work out...maybe both.

Paul--

It was your post that got me a-thinking about this topic. I think first order of business is when will Biden open up travel? Hell, he's talking about dispensing 100 million vaccines in his first 100 days, which seems like a pipe dream but who knows? And I think your instincts are correct in that travel will have to open up before there's a 0% rate.

I don't mind the three tests to avoid quarantining at destination. As I said, though, although I am the masked man here when out of my house, I really don't want to wear one abroad. So I may have to wait.

I'm with you Jay, I'd rather not have to wear a mask when I travel and so I'm willing to wait. Our government's vaccine rollout plan means I likely won't be getting it until late summer at best so we'll likely just be doing local trips in 2021. IF things change, we have 3 trips planned and ready to go. In order of importance to us Scotland, London and York, RS Sicily tour followed with a week on the Amalfi Coast. Order could change depending on any great deals or what opens up first.

No one knows how long the protection on any vaccine will last. No one knows whether the vaccine will also prevent transmission (the virus can still sit in your nose and still be transmitted to others unknowingly) as well as sickness and death (only the latter has been confirmed with confidence). I don't know if the objective is to stamp the virus out completely so it won't keep spreading to more people or to mutate into another strain or to vaccinate with the sole aim of preventing symptoms/ illness/ death. Fauci said that public health measures are not likely going away (right away, that is - and who knows when) just because someone is vaccinated. No one knows when countries will decide they feel confident enough to open their borders to others. Also, no vaccines have been tested on kids (and they have to wait until the data bears out that it's safe to do so) so that group will be late(r) in getting vaccinated. So perhaps "hold your horses" is decent advice, albeit conservative (at least you won't be disappointed if you're wrong). Info will be constantly updated as we learn more about the virus, how the vaccination effort goes, etc. There are still a lot of unknowns.

I've had to cancel too many necessary (not leisure) domestic trips to take care of family stuff to tempt me to keep booking things to no avail. So I will just chill and see how things go. I suspect there is a pipeline of shadow bookings which will not come into fruition for many folks, especially those who are bullish about very quick return to cruises and international travel.

We are planning on a trip to France hopefully in June, but we could push it back to July and maybe even August if needed, but I am an educator so it would have to wait until summer 2022 if we miss 2021, and we need some good travel so badly. So I am planning, nothing booked, and maintaining hope.

We are waiting until the fall of 2021 to begin planning travel again. By that time, the course of progress should be more clear. Therefore, we will not be doing any travel to Europe before 2022. It is possible that some mask wearing will become a permanent thing, especially when people find out that masks are also helpful in preventing colds and flu.

I think booking months ahead will be a thing of the past for me, at least. It's actually only been my thing when I picked an RS tour. The rest of my trips have been independent so a few weeks before I might have decided, generally. I am on the notify list in October 2021 for a second attempt at the RS tour I was meant to take last May. I doubt I would go even if it still runs. It's not just about my vaccination, but so many others' as well. However, already in our heads a rerun to York to the train museum is running around in our heads...so maybe a quick trip to the UK when we first feel comfortable? Basically, I think 2022 at the very earliest and it might be much longer. With climate change such travel might just be more difficult perhaps physically and/or psychologically and/or just wrong. One disease down another one develops? Who knows? (What's that new disease in India?)

I think masks will be around for quite awhile, as they have been in Asia, and perhaps for many years. Unfortunately, I can't be outside without sunglasses, and on sunny days I need a hat as well as my eyes are extremely sensitive (light blue, Nordic genes, etc.) so I look like the invisible man/woman when I go out now. It's quite comical really, but it is not conducive to spur of the moment conversations when traveling as in the past. It works really well with anonymity, which I like at home. LOL

I suspect my travel will be in the US and Canada (when allowed) for the foreseeable future. Then again, climate change might prevent such travel as well for a while. It might be a cottage on the beach here instead. I don't know. I am just glad I traveled when I did, because my friends who were waiting are now trying to guess how soon they can travel, when they should have started 10 years ago. IMO YMMV

Well, this gets right to the heart of the issue, doesn't it? Fear.

A fair amount of fear is healthy. But at some point, this will calm down enough so we can go again. But even then...will your behaviors change? Locals who greet you, as many have done to us in Italy, with a hug and a kiss on each cheek? I can't answer that question myself. We'll see. I sure do miss that part of it, though.

And...I remember when we were planning our first trip to Italy in 2010, there was still plenty of terrorist talk around, even nine years after 9/11. So it's not like we haven't gone through a permutation of this before. And yes, on that trip (and subsequent ones as well) I remember being curious at large Asian groups touring Florence, all masked. I asked somebody and was told (have no idea of its veracity) that it's a habit--especially in China, where the air pollution was so bad.

I don't consider it fear, just realism. 911 never affected my mindset--I still think airline security is pure theater--but this surely will. We are going to be stuck with masks--in some cultures anyway, and I suspect Italy/Europe might be one of them.
I am not booking anything until I am ready to get on a plane overseas--I just don't feel like dealing with changes and cancellations, etc. I hate the airlines enough already. As soon as I feel it is time, I have the experience and resources to plan a trip quickly, so I won't be jumping on any "deals" that are likely to cause me nothing but aggravation.
But I do share the longing for Italy, and your last post makes me long for it even more!

If my post is the one that brought your idea of 'fear' into the mix, then you are mistaken. I agree with Valadelphia:

I don't consider it fear, just realism. 911 never affected my mindset--I still think airline security is pure theater--but this surely will. We are going to be stuck with masks--in some cultures anyway, and I suspect Italy/Europe might be one of them.

If International travel is not fun, I'm not going. I can find fun things to do at home. And I'm certainly not going in the image of the invisible woman. I've been traveling at least yearly since 2000, so I thank my lucky stars that I did and will play the rest by ear.

We currently have a trip booked for late May to Scotland but last night we decided to push it back to Dec & go to Italy instead. I expect to be vaccinated soon (work in oncology) but there is no telling when others in my party will get theirs. Plus I don’t believe we will be mask free by May. I’m with you in that if I’m spending thousands of dollars to travel, I don’t want to be in a mask. Plus my son will be 2 at that time & I’d rather save myself the hassle of trying to get him to keep his on.

Paul, I agree with you. Businesses, of all kinds, cannot afford to stay closed for another travel Season. Local governments cannot afford for businesses to close and not pay taxes. For people who cannot work in their industry, and not earn a living, it will only get worse. In NY the MTA is talking about laying off a Massive amount of people because ridership is so low. The trickle down effect is enormous and continues. It this vaccine can offer a glimmer of hope to people to try and get their lives back, I can’t see things not opening up. We have reservations for September, and we fully expect to go on our trip. They were pushed back from this September. If the UK allows us to travel in the spring, and we are Lucky enough to have had the vaccine, then we will go, even last minute. In the meantime, we are upping our donations to local causes this Holiday Season, sharing the money we did not spend on vacations this year. I need to be optimistic about the vaccine and about life.

My husband is scheduled to be part of a 25-person meeting in London in early Sept-the idea is for them to be guinea pigs to see if this is feasible. If we've been vaccinated by June, I will book a ticket as well. Because England is already vaccinating, I think it will be one of the first places to open.

From a search on the Internet:

The Three Types of Fear:

Rational Fear. Rational fears occur where there is a real, imminent threat...

Primal Fear. Primal fear is defined as an innate fear that is programmed into our brains...

Irrational Fear. Irrational fears are the ones that don't make logical sense and can vary greatly from person to person.

For several months, even if we did want to proceed with our planned 2020 trip to Scotland/Scandinavia, and another to Rome, conditions wouldn’t have allowed us into those places. But we were using sensibility, not irrational fear. I’m not afraid of getting on a plane in non-pandemic times, because proven aircraft design, qualified pilots, flight crew, and existent airport staff, and safety equipment and procedures make it very unlikely that I’d be treading water in the North Atlantic after a crash. But other, currently unmitigated threats have been identified right now, including lots of uncontrollable other people who might not be exercising appropriate caution, that I have to protect myself. I don’t deliberately chop my finger off with a knife, not because I fear doing it, but because doing so would be just senseless.

Rational behavior sometimes involves caution. The degree of caution can vary from person to person. It wasn’t this way 2 months ago, but I believe at this point that by this coming September, travel to Europe is feasible. As always, exercise appropriate caution - definitely moneybelts, potentially masks.

And we can easily cancel at this point, if need be. The horses can anticipate running freely again in just a little more time.

You know, I probably should have used a different word than fear, as the connotation is negative & anti-strength. As stated upthread, caution is probably a better usage. Risk/reward would be another.

But just the fact that most if not all of us on this forum have taken it upon ourselves to travel to Europe in the past, that's conquering fear in its own way. Can't tell you how many folks here in this country are just plain scared to do international travel--and I'm talking about before the pandemic--on so many levels. So kudos to all of us.

Hear, Hear, Jay, and kudos to you for starting this thread!

Now eating snails in Greece, and entrails in Italy - THAT’S conquering fear.

Travel when enough factors make it feasible, personal decision.

We have a trip booked to Italy from June 15-July 3rd. We used miles and the hotels I have booked are refundable and not paid in advance. It has been fun planning. I am so used to things getting cancelled that it won't be such a blow if it doesn't happen.

Of course I am optimistically biased because I was want to travel, but I think the combination of the vaccination campaign to the most vulnerable as well as the seasonal change will see improvements enough for travel to be allowed. But who really knows, if you had told me we would be looking at a year + of uncontrolled pandemic, I would never have believed it. We are all fine with wearing a mask when out and about. In fact, even if it's not required I will likely wear one on a plane and in the airport from now on as we've had trips where we caught minor bugs. I will never forget my husband trying to explain his cold symptoms to a pharmacist in Toledo, thank goodness for schoolgirl Spanish, "El tiene catarro." :) If we caught even a sniffle this time we'd feel like we needed to quarantine.

On another note, the down time of the past year has been good for both my travel budget and the quality of my bookings. I have taken care to only book family owned (as far as I can tell) hotels and not used third party vendors. It's funny, my oldest son turned 13 a few days ago and he has aged out of what a lot of hotels consider a child. Many of the hotels we had booked for last summer are unavailable because he's now considered an adult and the family rooms are off limits to 3 adults.

Locals who greet you, as many have done to us in Italy, with a hug and a kiss on each cheek?

Paris isn’t Italy, of course, but one formerly greeted acquaintances and friends and colleagues here with the bise.. No more. People aren’t bise-ing with people they know and care about, much less strangers.

Whether that is a permanent change, I don’t know. But the idea of starting again — although it was so ingrained for so long — seems rather horrific and far off.

As for me, I would much rather wear a mask and travel than not wear a mask and not travel. I am honestly just getting used to my mask and don’t think about it that much. All other things being equal, if someone told me I could go to London or Scotland or Norway tomorrow if I wore a mask, I would hop aboard the first conveyance.

And I agree with Valadelphia, who said it well:

I don't consider it fear, just realism

And Wally and Cyn.

As for “needing some good travel” — yeah, I would like some good travel to see my family.

According to many well regarded experts on Covid, including your own Dr. Fauci, masks and distancing are likely to be required for all of 2021 and into 2022. Added to that is a possible reluctance of a large enough % of the populations of various European countries who will not agree to get a vaccine could mean restrictions are required for awhile. Additionally, how often will the vaccine be needed...if it is like the influenza one and it is needed annually, that could add further delays. All of us need to wait awhile longer to see how the vaccine processes actually work out....the logistics of this is quite staggering. Knowing which hotels have survived this and which flights might be scheduled later next year is difficult to ascertain at the moment.

I won’t go to Europe touring in a mask. Like you, I’ll wear one going out and about at home, but not to Europe. I really thought we’d be able to go in October, without masks, now I think it won’t happen.

I’m going to assume those of you who think you are going to Europe soon are going to be relying on medical passports proving you were vaccinated? The evidence suggests you can still spread COVID. I wish I was as optimistic as some on here. I’m planning a September trip but its 50/50.

I also don't get the "I'm not going till we don't need masks" thinking. I personally hate wearing a mask (and I've been an RN for 25 years and always hated when I had to wear a mask at work) but I hate the idea of not traveling (or getting sick) even more. I think a lot will depend on the type of travel you plan on dong. Traveling by private vehicle, to uncrowded places you'd probably not need one most of the time. I expect to be wearing a mask on crowded pubic transportation, in crowded museums, while standing in lines, etc. for quite some time. But maybe not when just walking around. When you are walking around sightseeing outdoors, even if you will be passing within six feet of other people, you aren't next to them for extended periods of time, so in those cases, once I've been vaccinated I think I'll feel OK to not have one one all the time. But certainly I expect to have one with me (traveling and at home) for several years at least.

I think the point about maybe falsely focusing on the vaccine is valid. In fact a number of airlines have not supported a scheme where vaccination is required, focusing instead on testing. But a bit ironically, they are doing so because they do not want to wait until the general public is vaccinated to fly again.

The true gauge of what will allow travel will be what it is now, the case rate in both the departure and destination Country supported by evidence of not being infected. That could be testing, but that has proven marginal (look at the attempts to have "bubble" cruises") or it could be a vaccination, maybe even evidence of anti-bodies, I agree, nobody knows.

We can only hope that the current peak will be the last, or at least fade over the next couple months, and the combination of people with gained immunity, vaccinations, seasonal (though that has not proven very robust) variation, and other measures will lower case rates.

As for wearing a mask; I fully expect we will be wearing masks for the next year or more, and we may have become a culture that now routinely wears masks...like we observed a number of Asian countries do in the past. However, by next year, I will shamelessly say that I would much rather be sitting in Rome wearing a mask than sitting at home doing the same.

I’m trying to bite my tongue here...but these travel threads remind me of a post last summer from one RS’er who predicted vaccine in January, injection in Feb, over to Europe in March. Totally believing they were going to be #1 In line. Right now the US will be getting 100 million doses by the end of March- that means some accinevwill not get to the street until early April. 100 million doses covers 50 million people. Is everyone aware the US population is a little over 331 people. That is ONLY 15% of the US population. Hospital workers, the elderly, the first responders, the military are all gonna be at the front of the line. Most (not all) travelers will not see and injection until much later in the year. The US doesn’t have any second quarter vaccine lined up yet. Pfizer has contracts for a good deal of its 2nd quarter production going overseas- not saying that will happen. Future litigation, legislation, Executive Orders, could get very interesting there.

Johnson and Johnson is getting closer with their vaccine. They hope to submit for approval sometime in February. February. And approval is not instant. There is a great recent New Yorker article on the process of producing those little glass vials that hold the vaccine. Corning Glass discovered that if you move the line too fast the bottles hit each other- no big deal except for tiny tiny tiny flecks of glass come off the bottles (not a break) and contaminate them. So Corning has developed a coating for the bottles to counter that. Which means they are using highly specialized equipment. So Bubba in his garage is not gonna be cranking out supplies.

And let’s not forget Europe. Maybe you have your injections- doesn’t mean what xyz country is ready for you. Especially if the US locks Pfizer production down and xyz countie’s order from Pfizer gets shut out.

Please plan with delight. Look forward to trips but go into this with your eyes wide open towards reality and not fantasy.

So, I'm being optimistic and already booked my hotel in Paris for May 2021 and am working on planning my fall trip to Italy. I'm desperately hoping to have widespread vaccination by then so we can go. I'm so desperate to travel that I'm not even considering the possible side effects of said vaccine. I don't care if I grow a third ear from it... me and my 3 ears are going on vacation!

As for traveling masked, I understand how you feel. I felt like that when this all started to go down. But I work in a mask, a shield and gloves all day long for 10 hours or more straight and do massive amounts of cleaning every surface before anyone else enters into my area. All day, every day. It's exhausting, so wearing a cloth mask WILL be like a vacation for me. Like I said, me and my 3 ears are going on vacation as soon as they say I can!

As for me, I would much rather wear a mask and travel than not wear a mask and not travel. I am honestly just getting used to my mask and don’t think about it that much. All other things being equal, if someone told me I could go to London or Scotland or Norway tomorrow if I wore a mask, I would hop aboard the first conveyance.

Kim took the words out of my mouth. Masks have been added to my packing list. Since I fall into a couple of extra risk categories for the virus, I should be fairly high on the list of who gets the vaccine. I'm hoping sometime between late February and March. Travel in April assuming countries open up. And that might happen if you have proof of getting the vaccine. (No medical passport, just proof of getting the vaccine.)

And if you're waiting for everyone to get the vaccine, you might as well get comfortable. Half of Americans have already said they won't take the vaccine. Its not a magic pill. It just gives greater odds of you NOT getting the virus.

@onefastbob - I agree with you but just hope people who are buying plane tickets realize that vaccinations roll out take longer and no one is "at the front of the line" except front line medical workers and 80-90 year olds. I work at a health facility that is getting the vaccine this month and they are still working out the logistics and who will get the vaccine. Add to that we still don't know the side effects as Britain has had allergic reactions. Plus all the European countries still have to immunize their citizens.

Enjoy the planning but with Europe and the US now another spike, it's best to be prudent as well and not think that Europe will just open up to tourists from all over.

has the US approved any of the vaccines yet?

we don't hear anything about US approval here.

Does it then need approval at the state level?

US Approval of the Pfizer vaccine is expected today. Moderna is a bit behind them, but being discussed at the same meeting, approval could come soon, or by the end of the Month. Two other companies should be seeking approval by the end of January.

In the US, once the FDA approves the vaccine, that is about it. A State does reserve the right to review and could in theory not allow use or issue an approval, but there is no formal structured step like the FDA uses.

As for traveling masked, I understand how you feel. I felt like that
when this all started to go down. But I work in a mask, a shield and
gloves all day long for 10 hours or more straight and do massive
amounts of cleaning every surface before anyone else enters into my
area. All day, every day. It's exhausting, so wearing a cloth mask
WILL be like a vacation for me.

I get how Wendi in Newark feels. It's all about perspective. FYI I have serious sleep apnea and have been battling wearing a full face CPAP mask every night for the last 15 years. It's something I have to do but you never really get used to it. And in my work as a private music teacher, I am masked in-person, but not obviously during Zoom lessons. Pros & cons to the efficacy of both scenarios, believe me.

I would prefer not having to wear a mask while in Italy. But if--as has been alluded to upthread--at least sometimes mask-wearing over there is going to be part of daily life for the foreseeable future, I have a decision to make then, don't I?

We have traveled for at least 2 or 3 weeks every year for the last 50 years. Since retiring 15 years ago, we have traveled about 3 months of every year. Aside from paying the bills and occasionally running the vacuum, it’s about all we do. We love to travel. It is very important to us. But we are holding the horses. In fact, I think we’ve stabled them and tossed the key. I have no medical training. I truly understand little of the science. One thing I do understand is that nobody to my mind yet has any idea what the long term effects may be, say a year or a lifetime after infection.

Fear? That’s fine with me. No problem! I’m afraid of getting sick, afraid of dying and afraid of watching the person I love suffer. I know of people who have sickened, recovered, are struggling or have died. No trip, not to London or Loews is on our horizon. We are playing with the possibility of summer 2022, but only ‘playing’ because friends are talking about ‘maybe’. I hope sincerely that all who wish to travel may do so safely. It just isn’t going to be us for some while. Stay healthy. Be well. Happy holidays to all.

Canada approved the Pfizer vaccine yesterday and injections starts next week. My coworker's wife is a nurse and will be part of the initial jabbing team. Apparently the logistics to give the vaccine isn't as simple as taking it out of a box and giving the shot. The vaccine has to sit for about half an hour to thaw out and then there is some mixing and shaking things together before injection. Seems to me that this means even this process will take time and be more slow moving than a typical vaccination. The Canadian government says it expects all Canadians that want to be vaccinated, will be by end of 2021.

If you book rooms with good cancelation policies, and if you don't mind ending up with an open ticket that you can use when you can travel, then there is no reason not to be optimistic in your planning .... nothing to loose, and a fun activity to keep you occupied.

I'm curious if those who are starting to book flights and hotels are concerned about prices going up or availability going down if you wait.

We can enjoy the dreams and anticipation by putting together potential itineraries, reading travel guides, and posting ideas and questions here on this forum. But we don't know when and under what conditions travel restrictions will be lifted or what economic conditions will be like, or how much more the virus will spread before widespread vaccination is available. I personally don't see why there's any urgency to move forward beyond making vague plans, even if bookings are refundable or flexible.

Rick has no tours scheduled before late August that I can see, and he is not accepting any bookings for any tours yet. It seems to me that's an excellent metric to follow. He and his company have been very smart and responsible about dealing with this pandemic. I wouldn't book anything before he has started accepting reservations on his tours.

I do have a tour to the Middle East booked for next October/November, but only because I already had booked it for this year before the pandemic put the kibosh on my plans. So far I've only paid a $300 deposit, and I won't need to pay more until July.

Here in Mexico people in my age group are told we can start getting vaccinated in February, so I'm hopeful that I will be able to take some trips around this country over the spring and summer, and get back to the US to visit friends and family. But I will not book anything until after I've been vaccinated. There's a local tour company that has trips all over Mexico, and I'm going to pick up some of their brochures and start my dreaming now. But I will book later.

We too are anxious to return to Europe! We came home from our last trip on January 3, 2020 and we have already bumped our next trip (Vernazza, Italy) back from March 2020 to December 2020 to March 2021 and now FINALLY we are settled and dead set on December 2021. We are watching the CommonPass and IATA Travel Pass programs unfold. These may prove to be helpful in opening up the world to travel again. There are many unknowns and fears but, if we are being as cautious as we can there shouldn't be a reason to postpone again. I am also of the opinion that masks are here for the foreseeable future and I am OK with that. I am willing to do whatever I have to do at this point. Choosing the Cinque Terre was just lucky too because walking the trails will enable us to be mask free. We already have our camere booked in Vernazza (La Mala- lovely people there who have been very easy to work with throughout our constant rescheduling) but it's a little too soon to book our flight. We will fly into Milan and train to Vernaza (through La Spezia or Levanto), spend our days hiking (or training) between the villages, take a day trip to Pisa or Genoa and then train back to Milan for the flight home. We are planning to spend some time in Milan on the tail end of the trip too. I am very excited to even be thinking about traveling again. There hasn't been a single year in the last 20 that I haven't spent time in Europe. We came home from Madrid on January 3, 2020 so if we actually make it to Italy in December 2021 our streak will still be alive! Good luck on your travels and if you have any news about Italy (quarantine free travel) please let us all know!

We’re in a similar position here in France as Lane is in Mexico. We had originally thought of returning to the States in February, but now we may wait and get the vaccination here first. We have no travel plans for now, just get through this mess safely and then take off somewhere. We’ll wear a mask for however long is necessary. No problem.

I think your proposed timeline for Italy is reasonable, Jay. As for the mask, who knows. In May, when the countries opened up, masks weren’t mandatory immediately, but once numbers started to rise again, they were required.

We’re in a similar position here in France as Lane is in Mexico. We
had originally thought of returning to the States in February, but now
we may wait and get the vaccination here first. We have no travel
plans for now, just get through this mess safely and then take off
somewhere. We’ll wear a mask for however long is necessary. No
problem.

I think your proposed timeline for Italy is reasonable, Jay. As for
the mask, who knows. In May, when the countries opened up, masks
weren’t mandatory immediately, but once numbers started to rise again,
they were required.

I hope so, Bets. That winter 2021-2022 might work for us, of course depending on...everything. We were in Paris in late February one year, and omigod, that wind whipping across the Seine felt colder than Chicago! So we did stuff inside a lot of neat bistros, bookstores & cafes. I would love to feel safe again frequenting places like that.

Same trip, by the time we got down to Rome, it was 50's & 60's and conversely, we could be outside a lot of the time. Fewer tourists that time of year too, which could work to our advantage safety-wise? Who the heck knows...

I have a lot of flexibility (12 weeks of vacation time benefits, some of that is use or lose), never have booked anything more than 3 months in advance, and 50,000 Avios I can use for one of these I plan to do;

May 2021 Venice to The Dolomites to Lake Como to Bernina Express
July 2021 Summer North Sea Jazz Fest, Mont Blanc, Montreux Jazz Fest, St Moritz Jazz Fest
December 26 - January 2022 Morrocco to Andalucia Spain or Patagonia to Brazil.

I've booked refundable hotels for a trip to Italy in mid-April but will wait to book airlines until late-February to see how feasible the trip may be. Would not travel without having the vaccine and being fairly sure of not having to quarantine going or coming back. I'm not optimistic. Don't like wearing a mask but would never leave home without one if I will be close to people or in stores. I had told people for years, "Travel ASAP. It won't get easier or cheaper and may be more dangerous" having no idea at all of the pandemic.

I think the European countries will be *very* anxious to get their tourists back this Spring and will get behind lowering restrictions when the infection rate goes down and the vaccine comes out. How that will roll out I don't know. I spend an enormous amount of time planning trips some of which, I know, I will never take. I learn so much about a country and destinations just doing this research. I get as much from this as I do actually taking the trips. (You got to have a dream.)

Keep feeding your travel dreams. Yes, there is art, architecture, beauty, food, and real culture over there. I crave it. "How you gonna keep em down on the farm after they've seen Pari" When it seems right, go for it. Do you really think you will regret these trips? Even the ones that had flaws. Travel-on but as safely as possible.

When we arrived in Milan in late June of 2019, the temperature at the Parco Sempione - Castello Sforzesco was touching 100 °F and I promised myself that the next trip we were planning in 2021 would be in May. Earlier for us works better as June 1 is the start of Hurricane Season here in New Orleans, however, given the state of the virus and the roll-out of vaccines, we are planning for August 2021. This trip is planned to include Malta, Sicily, and then up the East coast to Bari and out from Naples. Hopefully this will provide time for vaccinations, although it'll be a while before we book any flights.

Reading about all the dedicated travellers here who are waiting to return to Italy, it's clear the demand is enormous and when the all clear sounds it's going to look like a flying version of the Oklahoma land rush - except there was no demand pricing in 1889. My advice is to buy stock in your preferred airline far before you even think about buying your tickets.

Reading about all the dedicated travellers here who are waiting to
return to Italy, it's clear the demand is enormous and when the all
clear sounds it's going to look like a flying version of the Oklahoma
land rush - except there was no demand pricing in 1889. My advice is
to buy stock in your preferred airline far before you even think about
buying your tickets.

Boston Mike's comment got me a-thinking...

If fares are going to be predicated on supply & demand--no reason why the market shouldn't revert to that--then yeah, we want to book in early, within reason. But I'm not doing anything until travel routes to the EU from the US open up again. Airline stocks, I don't know. Been burned too many times on them.

But...what about travel insurance in a new post-Covid world? On each of our three trips, we bought (on the average) $5000 of worthwhile insurance for around $150. Never had a reason to use it, but it certainly gave us peace of mind.

One would have to think that the insurance carriers got their respective heads handed to them in the last 9 months. Heck, I don't even know if a pandemic was covered on our policy. At any rate, you'd have to think that there will be a precipitous rise in premiums.

Anybody in the business that could shed some light? I'm going to get it next trip, even if I have to pay double.

For those still working, review your work travel policy with regards to eligible sick or disability coverage if you travel internationally while your country advises against international travel. I am of an age and Hospital essential worker do assume vaccine sooner than later but work states that as long as Canada clearly advises against international travel, then I get no sick benefits should I get sick during that period. As I work with the Covid gurus, Canada looks to be cautious about lifting their advisement until they have a better understanding of length of vaccine efficacy, whether we become silent transmitters, and if there is an actual reduction of overall cases after a reasonable time.....word has it, 6-8 months. I know I will be reassessing my wishful Spring plans. Still hoping my September cruise can run, but I am also gearing up to accept that will be a travel credit I kiss good bye.

I'm curious if those who are starting to book flights and hotels are concerned about prices going up or availability going down if you wait.

Prices, no. Availability, yes.

We can enjoy the dreams and anticipation by putting together potential
itineraries, reading travel guides, and posting ideas and questions
here on this forum....I personally don't see why there's any
urgency to move forward beyond making vague plans, even if bookings
are refundable or flexible.

I've booked our first post-pandemic trip for September 2021. Flights + hotels all 100% refundable for any reason, cancel-able through August. We will make our go/no-go decision then, based on conditions. For us, "availability" is the key...because we fly using frequent flyer miles. That makes it virtually impossible to get the flights we want (in business class) on relatively short notice. But with our travel dates now locked-in, I can proceed to do all the detailed trip-booking that's necessary. If we have to pull the plug on the trip, we can and will do so. In that case, the trip planning is preserved, the trip just goes back on the shelf for future use, we can re-activate it another time.

Here's my thinking: at some point, it will again be responsible and possible to travel again. We don't yet know for sure when that date will be...and it won't be the same for everyplace: I'm confident Europe will be an open, responsible and safe choice before many other places, either due to extremely strict policies (eg New Zealand) or less resilient health care systems (parts of the developing world). Given what we know (vaccines are going into arms today in Europe, where I plan to go first, and in the USA, where I'm from), and what we can guess (most people in those places who want the vaccines will have them by Q3 2021) I'm making a bet that by September, our trip will be do-able. But my guess could be wrong. So...everything I'm booking is refundable. And...I'm planning for the "next launch window" roughly every quarter. So, if I don't go to Portugal in September, that's OK, my next launch window is in January 2022 (a different trip I'm currently planning...maybe Malta). If the January trip doesn't work out, OK, the next launch window is April/May (a different trip, too, location TBD). Or July. With trips planned every quarter, sooner or later one of them will work out. The others go on the shelf, with virtually all the planning done, and to actually go, all I need to do is adjust the dates and book things.

Rick has no tours scheduled before late August that I can see, and he
is not accepting any bookings for any tours yet. It seems to me that's
an excellent metric to follow. He and his company have been very smart
and responsible about dealing with this pandemic. I wouldn't book
anything before he has started accepting reservations on his tours.

While I do agree that this is the smart and ethical policy for a business that runs bus tours, I don't think the exact same constraints will apply for an independent traveler. Bus tours will come some time after independent travel opens up.

Here in Mexico people in my age group are told we can start getting
vaccinated in February, so I'm hopeful that I will be able to take
some trips around this country over the spring and summer, and get
back to the US to visit friends and family. But I will not book
anything until after I've been vaccinated. There's a local tour
company that has trips all over Mexico, and I'm going to pick up some
of their brochures and start my dreaming now. But I will book later.

I am glad to hear that vaccination plans are coming along in Mexico (one of my favorite countries, I'm looking forward to going back). Please keep us posted on how things are going with vaccinations there!

2022 is a better bet.
Regarding the vaccine since I work in a hospital I’ll probably be one of the first to experience the thrill of the new vaccine.
We expect to receive 2500 doses by the end of January but there are over 6000 of us working in the hospital (in all capacities both full time and part time) so priority will be given to clinicians in patient care departments, starting with those dealing with COVID patients and high risk patients.
I don’t expect the entire US population will have access to the vaccine before summer or fall. Europe is probably on a similar timeline therefore it is safe to hold your horses this year.

I'm with Agnes in the "hold your horses" camp. Too many unknowns about the vaccine, the virus, countries opening, etc. I suspect 2022 is a way better bet then even late 2021. In my industry we keep saying "it's all about the science" and right now the science just isn't there.

Moderna is reporting an indication that its vaccine reduces infections as well as symptoms of illness. This is based on analysis of nasal swabs taken at the time of vaccination--far fewer of the vaccinated folks were positive at the time of the second shot than was the case with the control group. I assume more definitive information will be available from Moderna in the next few months, and Pfizer has said this is something it will also be investigating. I think confirmation of this finding would encourage loosening of travel restrictions at some point next year, assuming there's a way to determine who has been vaccinated.

But I'm still not booking anything; I simply have no clue when I might be vaccinated, for one thing.

We just had friends invite us to join them on a river cruise in Late August. Given how much is still unknown and knowing, according to current info, that we’d be in the 3rd tier for vaccination whenever that is, we took a pass. Neither of us feels comfortable being on confined boat with travelers and crew from all over the country/world until more is sorted out. It was enough stress going through the refund/voucher process last summer for the cancelled trip. We can wait and just add to the travel fund. However, once the “go” button is on, we’ll be out the door.

Major airlines are dropping international change fees, apparently permanently, so if you want to take a chance you might be able to without much risk. However I don’t think things will be back to normal by summer 2021.

I work for a large health system. The first stage of vaccination is taking place now with our front line workers and others that work in a patient setting at our hospitals. Then in late mid-late Feb, they will vaccinate the clinicians and doctors offices. If you don't work with patients, there still is no set date for a vaccination-most likely due to our government not buying enough vaccine last year.

Besides that, two doses need to be administered 3 weeks apart for the vaccine to be effective. So most people probably won't get vaccinations before summer and travel won't be "normal" until fall/winter.

Hey Jay!! It is looking better and better for my long-delayed visit to the homeland to become an actuality in the near term😊 Considering your weather I will probably hold off until mid-May, but I am already dreaming of Chicago pizza. I've been in a travel funk since February, not even wanting to think about going anywhere since I knew I couldn't, but now that vaccines are here in Israel, I am super excited even at the prospect of airport lines and budget hotels. By the end of January I should have my "green passport" which means I won't be subject to quarantine restrictions here or need to be tested. I'm hoping that by May either things will be much better in the US or at least that, having been vaccinated, I won't have to quarantine for 14 days on arrival.

The idea of leaving the house without the fear of infection is liberating, even exhilarating. Though Chicago has been top of list for me ever since I had to cancel my May-to-July trip this year, I am suddenly contemplating a winter getaway as well . . . Naples, Nice, Barcelona . . . . I don't care if I have to wear a mask everywhere, much as I find it uncomfortable. And I still haven't figured out how to keep my reading glasses from fogging up.

That's great that you will be vaccinated early, Chani. You might want to remove Nice from your winter list though; lockdown in France was eased two weeks ago and case numbers are already rising. There could be more lockdowns if the ICU bed occupancy level gets high. It's going to be a see saw like this, going back and forth into and out of lockdowns for months to be sure beds are freed up.

Per Washington Post today, a French scientist who advises the French government said it would be late 2021 before things return to normal in France.

Heather, thanks for that update! I have a couple questions you may or may not know. 1. How will we know when it’s our turn? Will the media broadcast that news? 2. My hubbie is an estate planning attifnet and has been working since this all started. He is considered an essential worker and she’s a lot of clients, many elder . Where in the line would he be? I’m thinking at the end of essential workers but ahead of the rest of us under 65 with no health issues.

Edit. Posted this on another reply as well.

Hold your horses. Another take on travel being restricted until even the 3rd world countries are vaccinated.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7525384/coronavirus-vaccine-poor-nations-canada/

Thanks for that, Bets. Since I'm retired and those destinations are not far from home, I can make plans without much lead time. And I've been to all before so I won't need to do much planning. So with your advice in mind, I will keep posted on developments.

Chani, think Texas and Florida where things are 80% normal. Events, attractions, restaurants, bars all open. Just masks and a little social distancing and life goes on.

i am baffled by the, 'i wear masks at home but will not wear them in europe'. what's the difference? the very reason i put on a mask when stepping out here should be the reason to wear it when over there; to protect me and the people i come close to. am i missing something? as for travelling next year, there's nothing more i'd like to do than revive my cancelled summer trip. for all the reasons articulated here i can't be certain if it will be safe or even allowed during my window of mid-may to mid-july. i'll wait till mid/late february to pull the trigger.

I suspect it's a matter of how much time one would be wearing a mask. Right now, many people are working from home (if not retired), so they only need to don a mask when they head out to the supermarket, the doctor, etc. During a vacation one is typically out and about for 10 or more hours per day. That's a lot more mask-wearing time.

Right now, many people are working from home (if not retired), so they
only need to don a mask when they head out to the supermarket, the
doctor, etc

True of a certain class which represents the minority that makes the rules. The majority wear a mask all day .... if they are fortunate enough to be permitted to work.

As for masks and tourism, just curious, how many countries require one when outside? What are the rules in each country?

It’s unclear whether any of the vaccines PREVENT spread. If that’s confirmed wouldn’t vaccinated individuals NOT need masks anymore.

Moderna has some preliminary data suggesting that its vaccine prevents infection as well as illness. No infection would mean no spread. They promise more data in the future. Pfizer has said it, too, is going to investigate the question of whether its vaccine prevents infection. Its my impression we'll have info on this subject before most of us have an opportunity to get the vaccine.

However, those two vaccines are 94% - 95% effective against illness. If they find similar results against infection, that will be great, but it's not 100%. So I wouldn't be surprised if we're told to keep wearing masks--at least in some situations--until rates of infection are much lower.

I just took The NY Times quiz about where I stood in order to get the vaccine. Unbelievably, young adults are ahead of me. I’m 61, no bad health issues and retired. Is it because they are super spreaders? But our age group has a much higher rate of dying. Would love to know the reasoning.

Hey Jay!! It is looking better and better for my long-delayed visit to
the homeland to become an actuality in the near term😊 Considering
your weather I will probably hold off until mid-May, but I am already
dreaming of Chicago pizza. I've been in a travel funk since February,
not even wanting to think about going anywhere since I knew I
couldn't, but now that vaccines are here in Israel, I am super excited
even at the prospect of airport lines and budget hotels. By the end of
January I should have my "green passport" which means I won't be
subject to quarantine restrictions here or need to be tested. I'm
hoping that by May either things will be much better in the US or at
least that, having been vaccinated, I won't have to quarantine for 14
days on arrival.

Chani! No doubt, we're still in a state of flux here in the States. Varying directives, some states in better shape than others. And if you're traveling out of your own tiny geographical area, even within your own state, research must be done as to that area's restrictions of lack thereof. Frankly, that part of it is exhausting.

As stated upthread, I'm targeting Rome as a base, hopefully late 2021/early 2022. But--if this old world ever straightens out to the point where we can travel freely & without fear of infection--I want to plan a Mediterranean triumvirate--Italy, Greece & Israel. How great would that be? Trip of a lifetime.

Be our guide for the Tel Aviv portion? Saw a 'Someone Feed Phil' Netflix food/travel episode on Tel Aviv, and it just simply looked spectacular. Can't wait!

Our incoming Surgeon General has said the majority of people will not be vaccinated until late summer or fall. So I think we need to temper expectations and realize we will be wearing masks for most of 2021.

Lulu, the states have the freedom to set their own priorities. After the medical folks and people living in care facilities, I think there's going to be a lot of variation. Some areas may prioritize essential workers (of whom there are many) ahead of even folks with medical risk factors. Children under 16 are not currently slotted into the schedule, pending results of testing. The testing will take a while.

We all need to hope production / distribution / administration hiccups can be avoided. And it will help a great deal if a way can be found for Pfizer to provide the extra 100 million doses requested by the US during Quarter 2 rather than Quarter 3. Of course, if 30% of the population is reluctant to be vaccinated, that will give the rest of us earlier access.

Lulu, Indiana has prioritized essential workers after the nursing homes and medical workers. But, how do they define an essential worker? That can be stretched out. Next comes pre-existing conditions—in a State with high rates of obesity and smoking, along with those over 65. If you are only 61, you’ll have a bit of a wait, young one.

After nursing homes, essential and frontline workers, why can't it just be based on age? That seems fairest to me. My parents are in the late 50s, why should a unhealthy 20 year old get it before my parents? Age is the biggest determinant in mortality. Numbers don't lie if we do it by DOB, its easy to verify just show some ID.

I don't think age is the biggest determinant of mortality; it's certain underlying conditions. As we age, we do tend to accrue medical problems, so older folks are more likely to die than youngsters, but young people with serious health issues are also at higher than average risk. Level of potential exposure may also be considered.

I stumbled on this CDC webpage where all the states' preliminary plans are posted; you can check out what your state has said it plans to do about the prioritization: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/covid19-vaccination-guidance.html . I have no idea whether the documents are being updated regularly and reposted there. It would probably be a good idea to try to find your state's plan on a state website instead, but this is convenient.

After nursing homes, essential and frontline workers, why can't it
just be based on age?

Because if you're trying to prevent premature deaths for the most vulnerable segments of your population, then health condition (co-morbidities, etc) and even socioeconomic status (access to healthcare, sheltered vs. unsheltered, etc) is more indicative of risk level (of severe complications and/or death after being exposed to virus) than age alone. Certain segments of the population are dying at disproportionate rates, and this has been borne out by data and published research. Take a look at Kaiser Family Foundation's website if you want to learn more.

Yup, Kaiser nailed it

https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/issue-brief/addressing-racial-equity-vaccine-distribution/

If Congress doesn't provide funds to the states to cover the cost of the vaccination program, we're all going to be waiting longer than necessary. This is no small task.

https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-italy-worries-high-death-toll-patients/

Apparently, a combination of high median age (46.7, one of the highest in the EU), an overburdened healthcare system, and politicians' slow reaction time has contributed to the latest surge of higher-than-normal death rate in Italy.

And the new variant in the UK has made them a virus pariah in the EU as well, enacting at least a short-term ban in travel to & from.

Curiously--on a social media group catering to ex-pats in Italy, recently I had innocuously posted about my desire to return when this calms down. Got a snarky, if not mean, response from a (I believe) local about how we can keep our virus and non-compliant ways of life there (meaning here in the US), '...we don't need you...'.

Not taken personally, but, uh...eventually, yes you do. The Italian economy will desperately need every single tourist dollar when it's safe.

Thanks Acraven, that CDC link is helpful.

However, then I see things like this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evaluating-covid-risk-on-planes-trains-and-automobiles2/ and it makes me want to "respect" the situation on a plane, but doesn't scare me to be on a plane. So, I wear the N95, and i wipe things down, and I only pull my mask up long enough to cram the complementary candy bar in my mouth. For me, life goes on this way. Count my blessings, but I have spent over 40 hours on planes since this all started and I continue to be fortunate.

Planning on October 2021 Italy visit, at this time last year I was able to book round trip airfare from Portland Or for $1600 for two of us, but than we postponed our trip. Right now flights are $2500ish. Do you think prices will go down? I know I have a lot of time but prices have been constant at that price range and nothing has gone down. Just curious what others are doing. I’ve been using Skyscanner. Thanks

edryer4356, I havent been afraid to book now. I've had two nice trips since this started and one I had to cancel. What it cost me was nothing as all of the hotels had generous cancelation policies and Turkish Air let me convert the ticket to a voucher. So why not. If you are worried, you can get cancel for any reason insurance for about $300 on a $3000 trip.

Jay, I would be more than happy to be your guide for pretty much all of Israel. How many weeks do you have? My ensuite guest room is small but sleeps 2. Best time of year IMO is Feb/Mar (2022).

Israel's vaccination program seems to be going pretty well. We've received a lot of the Pfizer vaccine already with more shipments scheduled in the weeks (and months) to come. The expectation is that by the end of next month, 2 million of our nearly 9M will be vaccinated. Right now, health care workers (not just those directly exposed to Covid) and everyone over 60 are eligible. Fulltime care-givers will also get vaccinated at the same time as their charges. The hope is that by the end of March most of the country will have had their shots and we can end the partial shutdown. Most of the shots are being given through the HMO's. Here it's mandatory to belong to one and they are subsidized and regulated by the govt. AFAIK all are free. Of course there are a lot of people here who are hesitant and there's a lot of info being disseminated on all the media to convince people. OTOH at least one of the HMO's phone service crashed on the first day of appt booking due to the demand. Right now it feels like there's much more demand than supply and officials are urging patience and assuring that everyone will get their turn sooner than later.

In the meantime, anyone caught maskless gets hit with a first-offence fine of $150 and restaurants are closed except for takeout and you can't get on a plane unless you've had a negative test within 72 hours of your flight.

Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and a HEALTHY New Year.

I return to a number of places frequently, and for those places the rates are very good right now for 9 months out But it will be interesting to see what happens over time. If the prices are reasonable now I buy I'm not much into gambling.

Age is the single biggest factor in someones risk of dying from COVID. After all the nursing homes, frontline and essential workers are vaccinated, offer it to the general public in brackets based on age, starting with over 75s and working your way down in increments of 5 years. Once you factor in a persons health it gets murky and subjective. Race and SES should play no role.

After the front line and those over 70, I would do, in 5 year increments from old to young; everyone that didn't have the opportunity to work from home or wasn't so wealthy that they could not work for a year. Then for the rest I would let them scramble for it.

Are there any statistics on deaths by age by month? They all seem to be cumulative from the onset of covid. I wonder if the same ratios of ages apply in, say, Nov or Dec as they did in March or April?

The idea that age is the greatest risk factor is outdated, I'm nearly certain. We now know more about specific medical conditions that increase risk. Things were confused at the beginning when so many people (most of them quite old) were dying in Italy. I guess it took some time before they realized that those folks tended to be diabetic, hypertensive, obese, or have one of the other now-identified risks. It's possible that things have shifted as treatments have improved; that's an interesting question.

Age is obviously easier to use as a determinant than less-obvious factors. I see no reason why public health authorities would recommend getting into the complexity of considering medical conditions if simply prioritizing based on age would reduce deaths faster. (And I say that as a healthy 69-year-old who would presumably be closer to the front of the line if only age were considered.)

Useful news: Johns Hopkins is developing a dashboard to track vaccinations. Data is incomplete at this point, but one hopes it will improve soon. You can check if out here: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines

Edited to add: I've finally located a CDC webpage that tracks vaccine shipments and doses administered. It's here: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?CDCAArefVal=https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html#vaccinations. Don't overlook the footnotes. There's only data at the national level. It may be necessary to depend on the Johns Hopkins link (above) for state-level data. The CDC has seemed reluctant to make public announcements about the quantity of vaccine going to each state.

I would do it in this order:
1. Proletariat
2. Bourgeoisie

My husband and I (both mid-60’s) have booked a mid-October trip to Tuscany - our first to Italy. Our flights are “no change fee” and our accommodations can be cancelled with no penalty. We bought trip insurance, so we feel that we’ve protected ourselves as much as possible. Our previous travels have been to France and Spain. We will both have gotten vaccinated by then, hopefully the double dose if Idaho gets its act together. We expect to wear masks and socially distance when in public, just because... (I’ve made masks more tolerable by making my own from vintage Italian silk ties. They cheer me up.) Not sure how much more we can do. But, I’m having a great time planning the trip, reading Rick’s books, and grateful for all the helpful comments in these forums in this community. Maybe I should sign this “Pollyanna”?

My husband and I (both mid-60’s) have booked a mid-October trip to
Tuscany - our first to Italy. Our flights are “no change fee” and our
accommodations can be cancelled with no penalty. We bought trip
insurance, so we feel that we’ve protected ourselves as much as
possible. Our previous travels have been to France and Spain. We will
both have gotten vaccinated by then, hopefully the double dose if
Idaho gets its act together. We expect to wear masks and socially
distance when in public, just because... (I’ve made masks more
tolerable by making my own from vintage Italian silk ties. They cheer
me up.) Not sure how much more we can do. But, I’m having a great time
planning the trip, reading Rick’s books, and grateful for all the
helpful comments in these forums in this community. Maybe I should
sign this “Pollyanna”?

I really like the idea of the stylish Italian silk tie mask, Nina/'Pollyanna'!

Great that you bought trip insurance. In these times, it's the only way to fly!

Upon further review, I have started halfway-planning for an April 2022 trip to Switzerland & Italy, which includes a ride on the Bernina Express from Chur, Switzerland to Tirano, Italy. We've been over the Alps once by train from Lucerne to Milan, just a normal route in March, and it was spectacular.

The timing of this...let's face it, who knows? It could all be folly. But I have to think that by the time I have to scout airfares (Chicago/Zurich, Rome/Chicago) around August maybe, things should be a little clearer. Just setting up an Excel spreadsheet and looking at YouTubes and train routes...gets me going again. It's been too long!

If you cant travel in April 2022 because of COVID, I think you will have bigger problems than just travel to deal with.... we all will.

We too have had a trip scheduled to Italy in mid Oct. 2021. I read this forum regularly. As time goes on I become more concerned if this will be happening? Crazier yet I suppose... it is a round trip cruise out Venice. I know...many of you are thinking totally impossible, why, you’re dreaming, stupid and how awful. We can still cancel, get refunded, and have made no air fare or lodgings.. Like previous poster we hoped to spend prior week first in Tuscany. I tend to be a glass half full, hopeful person. Just not ready to throw in the towel....yet.